Outside the Church there is no salvation

[JustaServant]

Steve, I am a x-catholic. I left the Catholic church in 1979.
Peace, Golfjack

Hi Golfjack. I have been reading your posts with interest. You never answered my message to you. I don’t know if you are upset with me about our contact on Spero. If I did, I’m sorry.
Let me say first, I have been where you are, so I understand. I believe the Holy Spirit is calling you, otherwise you would not keep coming back to Catholic forums. I believe there is something eating at you. I have a hunch, but I will keep my mouth shut.
These people on CA care GJ, and we will continue to pray for you,
I agree with the others.
Come back to the faith.

 

[Luke65]

The Catholic Church teaches that Christ on the Cross merited us salvation. No amount of faith, good works, etc. would get us into heaven unless Christ merited it for us at Calvary.

• Michael

Don’t worry, brother, when they can’t refute Catholic doctrine they simply beat the pulp out of a straw man and declare: Victory!

 

[golfjack]

If faith is not required to be saved, why does the Bible say it is impossible to please God without faith?
Peace, Golfjack

 

[teak421]

If faith is not required to be saved, why does the Bible say it is impossible to please God without faith?

          Peace,   Golfjack

Who said anything about faith not being needed??? Anyone?

• Michael

 

[Luke65]

Who said anything about faith not being needed??? Anyone?

• Michael

See what I mean?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Teak421

Who said anything about faith not being needed??? Anyone? - Michael

It looks like this is all he can say … over…and over…and over again.

He refuses to respond to the multiple challenges of his limited view of Christianity. Personally, I think we have done all we can do. I know I can’t do anymore.

God bless

 

[golfjack]

I guess it is true what some have said what happened to the early church in the early centuries, that is, it was a restart of a Pharisee movement.

Some say, they believe in church tradition to blend in with scripture. Well, do we have originals of what some early father’s wrote? Or are they copies? If they are copies, how do you know they are not forgeries? And if you are depending on some of these early church writings, I really feel sorry for you. You see, Catholic teaching are wrong from the start. What happened, is your church became legalized.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[CentralFLJames]

I guess it is true what some have said what happened to the early church in the early centuries, that is, it was a restart of a Pharisee movement.

Some say, they believe in church tradition to blend in with scripture. Well, do we have originals of what some early father’s wrote? Or are they copies? If they are copies, how do you know they are not forgeries? And if you are depending on some of these early church writings, I really feel sorry for you. You see, Catholic teaching are wrong from the start. What happened, is your church became legalized.

     Peace,   Golfjack

I got a theory here guys…

GJ, when you were a young boy growing up did you read comic books? Any Jack Chick comic books?

Listen up ALL Protestants - Jesus was looking ahead to the time of the Protestant Uprising when He said the following words. This was meant EXPLICITLY for you.

These verses are spoken as a result of lip-service followers not wanting to swallow the full offering of a core Christian message and them turning their back on the hard teaching. That core message was the absolute necessity to receive His Holy Body and Blood so that the world may have life. One is not participating in the full grace of the pascal feast unless one sprinkles the blood over the door lentil of their house AND one EATS the flesh of the pascal lamb in faith of its efficacy. If you do not eat the flesh of the lamb the Angel of Death will NOT recognize you as belonging to Jesus and you will NOT be passed over and you WILL BE SLAIN.

*John 6:64-69

For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

**67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve. **

68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.” *

–

Golf Jack - "You do not want to leave too, do you?"

DO you not see the apostolic profession of faith? Sola Fide is a DEAD faith unless you also believe that Jesus is the Holy One of God and live by every word that comes out of God’s mouth. The apostolic profession of faith is taken in the context of the Holy Eucharist - the Precious Body and Blood of Christ - the Pascal Lamb! YOU MUST NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON THIS TRUTH!

How can you partake of the blood of the lamb and have your sins passed over if you do NOT eat at the Table of the Lord and receive the Cup of Salvation and the Bread of Life?

James

 

[tqualey]

Hi, CentralFLJames,

I do think I notice an element of ‘Chickesque’ comments in his posts.

There does not appear to any research, thoguht or independent expression in any of the past posts that I have seen. It is just a sad repitition of the same statement he has memorized while failing to engage others when challenged on his assumptions.

Thanks for sharing your insights.

I got a theory here guys…

GJ, when you were a young boy growing up did you read comic books? Any Jack Chick comic books?

Listen up ALL Protestants - Jesus was looking ahead to the time of the Protestant Uprising when He said the following words. This was meant EXPLICITLY for you.

These verses are spoken as a result of lip-service followers not wanting to swallow the full offering of a core Christian message and them turning their back on the hard teaching. That core message was the absolute necessity to receive His Holy Body and Blood so that the world may have life. One is not participating in the full grace of the pascal feast unless one sprinkles the blood over the door lentil of their house AND one EATS the flesh of the pascal lamb in faith of its efficacy. If you do not eat the flesh of the lamb the Angel of Death will NOT recognize you as belonging to Jesus and you will NOT be passed over and you WILL BE SLAIN.

*John 6:64-69

For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

**67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve. ***

68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”

–

Golf Jack - "You do not want to leave too, do you?"

DO you not see the apostolic profession of faith? Sola Fide is a DEAD faith unless you also believe that Jesus is the Holy One of God and live by every word that comes out of God’s mouth. The apostolic profession of faith is taken in the context of the Holy Eucharist - the Precious Body and Blood of Christ - the Pascal Lamb! YOU MUST NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON THIS TRUTH!

How can you partake of the blood of the lamb and have your sins passed over if you do NOT eat at the Table of the Lord and receive the Cup of Salvation and the Bread of Life?

James

God bless

Tom

 

[Matariel]

I would be interested in hearing where some of you Prot. came out of?

    Peace,   Golfjack

Evangelical/fundamentalist.

 

[Matariel]

You see, Catholic teaching are wrong from the start. What happened, is your church became legalized.

If Catholic teaching was wrong from the start, Protestantism is evenmoreso. The doctrines of the New Testament Canon, the Trinity, the Incarnational doctrines, and so on all came from the Catholic Church’s Ecumenical Councils, yet Protestantism believes in them. Why believe these doctrines from a supposedly apostate Church? Because it turns out the Catholic Church really is the Church of God on Earth, the single (the Bible clearly states “ONE faith”, not many like Protestantism) Faith and true teaching of the Apostles and Christ, despite the weak and sinful humans which make up Her hierarchy and laity.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Matariel,

Nice post, Matariel.

And you know, in the past 2,000 there have been so many people who wanted to create their own religion… and, it is still going on! Jesus Christ is being rejected by each one of these splinter groups… and, while I have usually seen this in a historic or academic context, interacting with these contemporary heretics has been a genuinely sad experience.

The degree of denial and simple refusal to engage a challenge is astounding to me. Here is an opportunity to learn from others - to learn more about Christ from a different view point - and it is summarily dismissed. This is the saddest part because to me, it is a closing of the door on salvation with the limp response that this is ‘their’ choice.

If Catholic teaching was wrong from the start, Protestantism is evenmoreso. The doctrines of the New Testament Canon, the Trinity, the Incarnational doctrines, and so on all came from the Catholic Church’s Ecumenical Councils, yet Protestantism believes in them. Why believe these doctrines from a supposedly apostate Church? Because it turns out the Catholic Church really is the Church of God on Earth, the single (the Bible clearly states “ONE faith”, not many like Protestantism) Faith and true teaching of the Apostles and Christ, despite the weak and sinful humans which make up Her hierarchy and laity.

God bless

 

[Matariel]

…interacting with these contemporary heretics has been a genuinely sad experience.

But remember, someone who holds heretical opinions out of ignorance is not a heretic, unless they are in a state of culpable ignorance (i.e., they should know better). Also, validly baptized Protestants are actually somehow conjoined to the Catholic Church, however imperfectly, through the Catholic Sacrament of Baptism. we should all pray that they come to the fullness of the faith while yet still on Earth.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Matariel,

Yes, you are right. It has just been a sad personal experience for me.

But remember, someone who holds heretical opinions out of ignorance is not a heretic, unless they are in a state of culpable ignorance (i.e., they should know better). Also, validly baptized Protestants are actually somehow conjoined to the Catholic Church, however imperfectly, through the Catholic Sacrament of Baptism. we should all pray that they come to the fullness of the faith while yet still on Earth.

God bless

 

[Matariel]

Hi, Matariel,

Yes, you are right. It has just been a sad personal experience for me.

God bless

Well, I hope things go better for you. Be happy that you have the fullness of the holy and apostolic Catholic Christian Faith at your disposal, unlike those who exist in heretical and separated sects out of ignorance.

 

[holy_moly]

tq, I have read most of the link you posted. Of course, I still disagree with most of the Catholic church teachings because they don’t line up with God’s Word. I guess we will both find out who is right some day. I put all of my trust on what Jesus has done for me, His finished work on the cross. Believe me, sins are remitted only by His precious blood. I do not need a priest to say I am forgiven of my sin. The Blood is sufficient.

    Peace,   Golfjack

*Then why would Jesus grant authority to the Apostles to forgive sin? *This is a contradiction that can’t be supported by any genuine theology!

Christ chose men in place of himself, to carry on his ministry. See Jn 20:21 “As the Father has sent me, so I send you… those whose sins you forgive/retain are forgiven/retained.” Again in Mt 18, Jesus tells ‘men’, “Whatever you bind & loose on earth, so it is in heaven.” In 2 Cor 5 Paul explains, “All this has been done by God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ & has given us the ministry of reconciliation.“ Obviously, Jesus has given authority to his apostles to carry on a ministry of reconciliation, to either forgive or not. This is also affirmed in Luke (10:16) “He who hears you, hears me. He who rejects you, rejects me. And he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me.” Who do you reject John? We are to confess our sins to one another (James 5:16).

This isn’t scriptural rocket science!

 

[holy_moly]

tq, I have read most of the link you posted. Of course, I still disagree with most of the Catholic church teachings because they don’t line up with God’s Word. I guess we will both find out who is right some day. I put all of my trust on what Jesus has done for me, His finished work on the cross. Believe me, sins are remitted only by His precious blood. I do not need a priest to say I am forgiven of my sin. The Blood is sufficient.

    Peace,   Golfjack

Golfjack, can i get your honest appraisal of the followinf quote from St Augustine?

Thanks,

Jim

“There is nothing more consoling for mankind upon earth than the forgiveness of sins, for nothing causes us more misery than sin. Even in pagan times Socrates looked forward hopefully to the advent of a mediator who would teach mankind in what manner remission of sins was to be obtained. Christ earned the grace of forgiveness for us by His sacred Passion and death upon the cross (Council of Trent, 6, 7). Christ is the Lamb of God, Who taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29). In Him we have redemption through His blood, the remission of sins (Col. 1:14). Christ is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Christ conferred the power to forgive sins only upon the apostles and their successors. He Himself exercised this power in the case of Mary Magdalen, Zacheus, the good thief; when He healed the paralytic He said expressly: “That you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, I say unto thee, Arise, take up thy bed, and go” (Matt. 9:6). This same power which He possessed Our Lord gave to the holy apostles, when, after His resurrection He said to them: “Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained” (John 20:23). He therefore who would have his sins forgiven must address himself to the bishop or to the priests whom Christ has appointed. In the Catholic Church alone is remission of sins, for she alone has received the Holy Ghost as a pledge of this grace (St. Augustine).”

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Jim,

What a wonderful paragraph. Here are Scriptural passages, aligned with an ECF (St. Augustine) and later Council statements. We have the richness of 1500 years of the Catholic Church’s guidance and authorative teaching through Scripture and Tradition.

I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting.

Golfjack, can i get your honest appraisal of the followinf quote from St Augustine?

Thanks,

Jim

“There is nothing more consoling for mankind upon earth than the forgiveness of sins, for nothing causes us more misery than sin. Even in pagan times Socrates looked forward hopefully to the advent of a mediator who would teach mankind in what manner remission of sins was to be obtained. Christ earned the grace of forgiveness for us by His sacred Passion and death upon the cross (Council of Trent, 6, 7). Christ is the Lamb of God, Who taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29). In Him we have redemption through His blood, the remission of sins (Col. 1:14). Christ is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Christ conferred the power to forgive sins only upon the apostles and their successors. He Himself exercised this power in the case of Mary Magdalen, Zacheus, the good thief; when He healed the paralytic He said expressly: “That you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, I say unto thee, Arise, take up thy bed, and go” (Matt. 9:6). This same power which He possessed Our Lord gave to the holy apostles, when, after His resurrection He said to them: “Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained” (John 20:23). He therefore who would have his sins forgiven must address himself to the bishop or to the priests whom Christ has appointed. In the Catholic Church alone is remission of sins, for she alone has received the Holy Ghost as a pledge of this grace (St. Augustine).”

God bless

 

[Luke65]

I guess it is true what some have said what happened to the early church in the early centuries, that is, it was a restart of a Pharisee movement.

Some say, they believe in church tradition to blend in with scripture. Well, do we have originals of what some early father’s wrote? Or are they copies? If they are copies, how do you know they are not forgeries? And if you are depending on some of these early church writings, I really feel sorry for you. You see, Catholic teaching are wrong from the start. What happened, is your church became legalized.

     Peace,   Golfjack

Even if you were right, and the Gates of Hell prevailed over Christ’s Church almost as soon as it began, Our Lord commanded us to obey the “Pharisees”, and “do everything they tell you.” (Matt. 23) So you’re out of luck either way.

 

[holy_moly]

Hi, Jim,

What a wonderful paragraph. Here are Scriptural passages, aligned with an ECF (St. Augustine) and later Council statements. We have the richness of 1500 years of the Catholic Church’s guidance and authorative teaching through Scripture and Tradition.

I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting.

God bless

Thanks Tom! I can’t imagine being in a ‘church’ started by some disgruntled,self proclaimed knuckllhead w/ an online ‘divinity’ degree! If I weren’t born a Catholic, I KNOW I’d be a convert!

InHim,
Jim