Overcoming ethnicity in Eastern Catholic parishes

[ConstantineTG]

During this Advent and Christmas season, it has dawned on me more than ever that the parish I am trying to become a part of is very strong in their ethnicity. I wonder how many of you who have joined an Eastern Catholic parish feels this and have overcome it? The other issue here is in Canada, unlike in the United States, the way of intigration is not shedding your culture. In America, you become American. In Canada you are encouraged to keep your previous cultural heritage and add it to the mosaic of Canadians. This works well sometimes, and sometimes it has its own faults. One problem is the division among Canadians when it comes to ethnicity and one may feel truly out of place among others of a certain cultural background. The parish is one of the places you’d feel this the most. Many Roman Catholic parishes here are predominantly Filipino. But my desire and growing love for the Byzantine Rite means I have to go to a parish that is almost entirely Ukrainian. From language to cultural celebrations, there are many times I do not feel a part of it.

Now, I’m glad the subdeacon who’s very friendly, is also non-Ukrainian. But sometimes I wonder if he becomes a Deacon and gets assigned somewhere else, what then? Its easy to say that we go there for God. But what use is communal worship if you don’t feel a part of the community?

 

[rben20]

Never worry about the makeup of the community. We are all Catholic first and foremost belonging to a huge family of different cultures and traditions. If you are interested in their tradition it should only be a matter of time for you to fit in better. Focus on your relationship with God as expressed through their tradition. That’s what you are there for regardless of the community.

 

[dcointin]

A significant difference between your situation and the OP’s is that the liturgy in his parish is in Ukranian, which makes it very difficult to participate if you don’t speak the language.

This is a common problem in Orthodoxy, and one that I’ve had to deal with myself. Fortunately for me there are some English speaking parishes in my area, but if there weren’t it would force a difficult choice. There’s no easy answer to this problem, and I wish there was more advice I could offer.

 

[ProVobis]

During this Advent and Christmas season, it has dawned on me more than ever that the parish I am trying to become a part of is very strong in their ethnicity. I wonder how many of you who have joined an Eastern Catholic parish feels this and have overcome it?

Sorry I can’t sympathize with you. Sounds like disrespect to the highest degree. Have they gone against Canadian laws? Have they trampled on your rights? Isn’t this a legitimate rite within the Catholic Church? Are they forcing you to attend there? What’s the problem? Do you go to a Chinese restaurant and complain because they don’t serve hamburgers, but keep going there hoping to find someone to bring you a hamburger there anyway? Something’s not right here.

I know of Latin Rite churches in the Chicago area who frown on any English spoken there. Perfectly legitimate. We just need to deal with it.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

During this Advent and Christmas season, it has dawned on me more than ever that the parish I am trying to become a part of is very strong in their ethnicity. I wonder how many of you who have joined an Eastern Catholic parish feels this and have overcome it? The other issue here is in Canada, unlike in the United States, the way of intigration is not shedding your culture. In America, you become American. In Canada you are encouraged to keep your previous cultural heritage and add it to the mosaic of Canadians. This works well sometimes, and sometimes it has its own faults. One problem is the division among Canadians when it comes to ethnicity and one may feel truly out of place among others of a certain cultural background. The parish is one of the places you’d feel this the most. Many Roman Catholic parishes here are predominantly Filipino. But my desire and growing love for the Byzantine Rite means I have to go to a parish that is almost entirely Ukrainian. From language to cultural celebrations, there are many times I do not feel a part of it.

Now, I’m glad the subdeacon who’s very friendly, is also non-Ukrainian. But sometimes I wonder if he becomes a Deacon and gets assigned somewhere else, what then? Its easy to say that we go there for God. But what use is communal worship if you don’t feel a part of the community?

Churches that are that ethnic will not change anytime soon because they tend to be a way to retain their culture. Basically your options are a) learn Ukrainian, b) put up and shut up, or c) find somewhere else

 

[malphono]

The title of this thread is striking: overcoming ethnicity. What on earth is that supposed to mean? I’m certainly not one who buys into the “politically correct” but even I find that statement to be distasteful at best. One would think that ethnicity (or, more completely, “ethno-cultural identity”) is some sort of terminal disease that must be eradicated from the Eastern and Oriental Churches before more people become infected.

 

[the_phoenix]

Are these Eastern Catholic parishes in union with the Pope? If so, wonderful … it gives you a very cool choice when it comes to where to go to Mass.

As for me, I’m surrounded by Eastern-type parishes, but my only problem is I get confused easy and don’t know how to tell which ones are Eastern Catholic and which ones are Eastern Orthodox. I’m not Eastern European at all but once attended a Byzantine Rite liturgy in Fatima, Portugal and would love to attend another, if only I knew what I was doing when it comes to picking out a church.

My best advice … attend a parish where you feel comfortable.

I currently have two parishes: one featuring an English-speaking Mass and one featuring Mass in the Latin language. I’ve normally attended the English-speaking one more this year due to circumstances in my life (English-speaking one is a much closer drive) but I think it would do me much good to attend the one in Latin more if I possibly can.

God bless you and guide you in your decision!


~~ the phoenix

 

[Vico]

…strong in their ethnicity…

I wonder how many of you who have joined an Eastern Catholic parish feels this and have overcome it? …

one may feel truly out of place among others of a certain cultural background. …

From language to cultural celebrations, there are many times I do not feel a part of it. …

But what use is communal worship if you don’t feel a part of the community?

It is true that we are members of a community, our personal or territorial parish, but also a member of our official ritual Church (even if different) and from that a member at large in the universal Church. In fact we are members even if we do not feel like it, and are in the prayers, and experience the Kingdom of God in the Divine Liturgy, and are able to receive the Mysteries. So there is great good in communal worship even if one does not feel to be a part of the community socially or culturally.

I have been in many groups with mixed cultures. It really depends upon the individuals themselves and their language skills, as to the social aspect. It is hard for them also to include those with which it is difficult to communicate with, or have a different sense of humor (for example). I am personally able to adapt even though my family heritage is not from the traditional territory, but it requires some work, yet in the Byzantine Catholic Church parish I am in, there are people from about nine different backgrounds (according to our priest). We speak English and have English Divine Liturgy, and some hymns in Slavonic, and the foods and songs will be mainly ethnic at the celebrations.

Preserving a cultures traditions is entirely different than excluding others from participation in that preservation. Interestingly, in the canon law, a person’s ethnicity is part of their rite and is constituent of the person (it is fixed). This is important for the individual and the family (which may be of mixed ethnicity). We see the importance reflected in the canon law which mentions the culture:

CCEO Canon 28

1. A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris. …

CCEO Canon 588
Catechumens are free to enroll in whatever Church sui iuris they want, according to the norm of can. 30; however, it has to be provided that nothing stands in the way of their enrollment in the Church that is more appropriate to their culture.

Practical solutions: learn some ethnic phrases and use them, participate in the social events, learn to make a recipe from that culture.

 

[ConstantineTG]

A significant difference between your situation and the OP’s is that the liturgy in his parish is in Ukranian, which makes it very difficult to participate if you don’t speak the language.

This is a common problem in Orthodoxy, and one that I’ve had to deal with myself. Fortunately for me there are some English speaking parishes in my area, but if there weren’t it would force a difficult choice. There’s no easy answer to this problem, and I wish there was more advice I could offer.

The Liturgy is in English, although during special occassions and feasts where there is one Divine Liturgy, it will usually be bilingual but leaning more on the Ukrainian side.

Aside from Liturgy, all the parish activities revolve around Ukrainian hertigae. Not that I am averse to joining them in that, but of course you kind of feel that you’re not part of it. And its not that they are hostile to me, everyone is super friendly especially the clergy. Even the Bishop knows me and my family.

 

[Aramis]

The most ethnically closed parishes I’ve been to have been Latin Rite. Specifically, the Hispanic Community parishes.

Then again, the only EC parishes I’ve been to have been Metropolia of Pittsburgh. The mixture of ethnicities therein is mixed pole, ukrainian

While the local EO parishes are somewhat ethnic, I’ve been made to feel welcome by parishioners of all of them… even the ones I’ve never been to… with the exception of the Old Believers. They’re so closeted and ethnic, I’m not even certain where the local OB parish is nor if they are priestless or not…

 

[ConstantineTG]

Churches that are that ethnic will not change anytime soon because they tend to be a way to retain their culture. Basically your options are a) learn Ukrainian, b) put up and shut up, or c) find somewhere else

I’m not complaining about the use of language. If language was a barrier I wouldn’t have lasted this long in this parish. Culture goes beyond language. And I’m not asking them to change for me. I’m asking people here how they managed to integrate into something that is completely different that what they are as a person.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The most ethnically closed parishes I’ve been to have been Latin Rite. Specifically, the Hispanic Community parishes.

Then again, the only EC parishes I’ve been to have been Metropolia of Pittsburgh. The mixture of ethnicities therein is mixed pole, ukrainian

While the local EO parishes are somewhat ethnic, I’ve been made to feel welcome by parishioners of all of them… even the ones I’ve never been to… with the exception of the Old Believers. They’re so closeted and ethnic, I’m not even certain where the local OB parish is nor if they are priestless or not…

People have been amazing. As I mentioned in my other post, even the Bishop knows me and my family, I’ve never even personally known any Latin Rite Bishop nor met one personally. And its not like they are excluding me, but given that everything else they do revolves around their culture it is indeed a challenge to integrate yourself into the parish. I guess that is part of the dilemma, given that you feel personal connections with the people in the parish, and yet your that “somebody’s friend that got invited to the family dinner”.

 

[ProVobis]

I’m asking people here how they managed to integrate into something that is completely different that what they are as a person.

S-L-O-W-L-Y and show them you’re trying. You should know a few Ukranian words by now, no?

 

[Patchunky]

The title of this thread is striking: overcoming ethnicity. What on earth is that supposed to mean? I’m certainly not one who buys into the “politically correct” but even I find that statement to be distasteful at best. One would think that ethnicity (or, more completely, “ethno-cultural identity”) is some sort of terminal disease that must be eradicated from the Eastern and Oriental Churches before more people become infected.

Why is it that whenever a Roman comes to one of churches and finds customs and traditions they’re not familiar with it’s a problem and they set out to change us??

How would they feel if we thought that THEY were the problem and we set out to change them??

 

[josephdaniel29]

Sorry I can’t sympathize with you. Sounds like disrespect to the highest degree. Have they gone against Canadian laws? Have they trampled on your rights? Isn’t this a legitimate rite within the Catholic Church? Are they forcing you to attend there? What’s the problem? Do you go to a Chinese restaurant and complain because they don’t serve hamburgers, but keep going there hoping to find someone to bring you a hamburger there anyway? Something’s not right here.

I know of Latin Rite churches in the Chicago area who frown on any English spoken there. Perfectly legitimate. We just need to deal with it.

The title of this thread is striking: overcoming ethnicity. What on earth is that supposed to mean? I’m certainly not one who buys into the “politically correct” but even I find that statement to be distasteful at best. One would think that ethnicity (or, more completely, “ethno-cultural identity”) is some sort of terminal disease that must be eradicated from the Eastern and Oriental Churches before more people become infected.

What in the world is wrong with you two? He’s not talking about changing the parish, he’s talking about his difficulty in integrating into a heavily ethnic parish.

In Christ
Joe

 

[the_phoenix]

Why is it that whenever a Roman comes to one of churches and finds customs and traditions they’re not familiar with it’s a problem and they set out to change us??

Like I said in my previous post to this thread:

"Are these Eastern Catholic parishes in union with the Pope? If so, wonderful … it gives you a very cool choice when it comes to where to go to Mass.

“As for me, I’m surrounded by Eastern-type parishes, but my only problem is I get confused easy and don’t know how to tell which ones are Eastern Catholic and which ones are Eastern Orthodox. I’m not Eastern European at all but once attended a Byzantine Rite liturgy in Fatima, Portugal and would love to attend another, if only I knew what I was doing when it comes to picking out a church.”

Basically, I would ENJOY the customs and traditions I’m not familiar with, therefore would not have a problem with them and would certainly not set out to change them.


~~ the phoenix

 

[josephdaniel29]

Like I said in my previous post to this thread:

"Are these Eastern Catholic parishes in union with the Pope? If so, wonderful … it gives you a very cool choice when it comes to where to go to Mass.

“As for me, I’m surrounded by Eastern-type parishes, but my only problem is I get confused easy and don’t know how to tell which ones are Eastern Catholic and which ones are Eastern Orthodox. I’m not Eastern European at all but once attended a Byzantine Rite liturgy in Fatima, Portugal and would love to attend another, if only I knew what I was doing when it comes to picking out a church.”

Basically, I would ENJOY the customs and traditions I’m not familiar with, therefore would not have a problem with them and would certainly not set out to change them.


~~ the phoenix

Who’s talking about changing anything?

 

[the_phoenix]

Who’s talking about changing anything?

See post # 16.

 

[josephdaniel29]

See post # 16.

Yes but that has nothing to do with the OP.

 

[Vico]

…, but my only problem is I get confused easy and don’t know how to tell which ones are Eastern Catholic and which ones are Eastern Orthodox. I’m not Eastern European at all but once attended a Byzantine Rite liturgy in Fatima, Portugal and would love to attend another, if only I knew what I was doing when it comes to picking out a church…~~ the phoenix

The Divine Liturgy will mention the Pope in the litany at an Eastern Catholic Church, also one can obtain a list of authentic parishes.

You are in Ohio?

Byzantine (Parma) includes Ruthenian, Croatian, and Hungarian parishes
parma.org/
Ukrainian (Parma)
stjosaphateparchy.org/
Romanian (Canton)
romaniancatholic.org/