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the_phoenix
Guest
Thank you, Vico …
Being in Northeastern Ohio, I will definitely check out these parishes and make plans to visit the closer ones! The Parma ones should be right nearby.
:tiphat:
~~ the phoenix
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Being in Northeastern Ohio, I will definitely check out these parishes and make plans to visit the closer ones! The Parma ones should be right nearby.
:tiphat:
~~ the phoenix
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5Loaves
Guest
I’ve heard a couple of EC priests say something to the effect that the Russians and Slovakians, because of their cultural histories, see any visitor as a possible invader, whereas the Greeks and middle easterners, because of their cultural histories, see any visitor as a potential customer and this colors how they respond to newcomers at their parishes. Perhaps…
In my parish I believe we feel we’re very welcoming and yet I’m sure there are some visitors who would come and feel some how left out. Honestly we’re always so eager to see one another it’s easy to get engaged in our own chatting. Still, I do think someone is always paying attention to visitors, whom we get nearly every Sunday. Our priest and our deacon are very diligent about welcoming visitors. When I am a visitor elsewhere I always find I have to really work up all my courage and make a point of initiating conversation. My last two visits at the Patriarch Athenagoras Orthodox Institute, the first time I’d been back there in about two years, I did that work up my courage thing over dinner to chat with the young people near me. As it turned out both times I was talking with students who were there for the first time and feeling awkward themselves.
One week it was two Latin Catholics, the other it was an Orthodox fellow who were first timers.
What I somewhat marvel at is that we have Ukranians among us and visiting us. We are a Russian parish by heritage and there is such enmity between our peoples in our lands of origin.
In my parish I believe we feel we’re very welcoming and yet I’m sure there are some visitors who would come and feel some how left out. Honestly we’re always so eager to see one another it’s easy to get engaged in our own chatting. Still, I do think someone is always paying attention to visitors, whom we get nearly every Sunday. Our priest and our deacon are very diligent about welcoming visitors. When I am a visitor elsewhere I always find I have to really work up all my courage and make a point of initiating conversation. My last two visits at the Patriarch Athenagoras Orthodox Institute, the first time I’d been back there in about two years, I did that work up my courage thing over dinner to chat with the young people near me. As it turned out both times I was talking with students who were there for the first time and feeling awkward themselves.
One week it was two Latin Catholics, the other it was an Orthodox fellow who were first timers. What I somewhat marvel at is that we have Ukranians among us and visiting us. We are a Russian parish by heritage and there is such enmity between our peoples in our lands of origin.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I always say that to know if a parish is in union with Rome, they’d have a picture of the Pope in the Parish office
In the UGCC parish I go to, there’s one at the foryer and another at the parish hall, together with the pictures of His Beatitude Patriarch Lubomyr Husar, Metropolitan Lawrence and Bishop Ken.
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5Loaves
Guest
Definitely no pictures of the Pope of Rome anywhere at our church.I always say that to know if a parish is in union with Rome, they’d have a picture of the Pope in the Parish office
In the UGCC parish I go to, there’s one at the foryer and another at the parish hall, together with the pictures of His Beatitude Patriarch Lubomyr Husar, Metropolitan Lawrence and Bishop Ken.
In fact there aren’t any photos in the place, other than those on newsletters on our bulletin boards.
His Holiness Benedict, Pope of Rome, HH Gregorios, Patriarch of Antioch are remembered in our prayers in Liturgy. We did also remember in our prayers in Liturgy His Eminence Archbishop Job of blessed memory (OCA) when he reposed just a year ago. We do have in a dark corner over the “sacristy” sink, which looks like it’s straight out of 19th Century Russia, the letter from the Latin Bishop in 1954 dedicating the parish and naming it. The “clues” we’re in communion with Rome come from the name he gave us, which is very Latin, and also that there is a holy icon of Saint Thérèse of Lisieux on our iconostasis, taken from the image of her on the iconostasis at the Russicum seminarian’s chapel.
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Aramis
Guest
Also, phoenix, note that Detroit, MI, has parishes of most of the churches sui iuris present in the US… If you don’t mind an occasional road trip, Detroit has a HUGE variety of Catholic Liturgical Diversity.
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CalifCatholic
Guest
We must be careful not to try and impose Amercan/Western ideas onto our Eastern brethren. They have their ways. Unlike the melting pot of America, many Europeon countries fiercly protect their ethnic heritage, and this is reflected in the Eastern Churches. That is their tradition and their right. If a person does not like that, perhaps they should consider being a Latin Rite Catholic instead
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Ungcsertez
Guest
If your parish is “Russian”, what Latin Diocese are you under, since the Uniate Russian Churches have no Exarchate or Eparchy here in America?I’ve heard a couple of EC priests say something to the effect that the Russians and Slovakians, because of their cultural histories, see any visitor as a possible invader, whereas the Greeks and middle easterners, because of their cultural histories, see any visitor as a potential customer and this colors how they respond to newcomers at their parishes. Perhaps…
In my parish I believe we feel we’re very welcoming and yet I’m sure there are some visitors who would come and feel some how left out. Honestly we’re always so eager to see one another it’s easy to get engaged in our own chatting. Still, I do think someone is always paying attention to visitors, whom we get nearly every Sunday. Our priest and our deacon are very diligent about welcoming visitors. When I am a visitor elsewhere I always find I have to really work up all my courage and make a point of initiating conversation. My last two visits at the Patriarch Athenagoras Orthodox Institute, the first time I’d been back there in about two years, I did that work up my courage thing over dinner to chat with the young people near me. As it turned out both times I was talking with students who were there for the first time and feeling awkward themselves.
What I somewhat marvel at is that we have Ukranians among us and visiting us. We are a Russian parish by heritage and there is such enmity between our peoples in our lands of origin.
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ProVobis
Guest
I don’t see it as a Roman vs Eastern issue. Even amongst the Romans there is trampling of traditions big time. (Try going to a bilingual parish, like Spanish and English or Polish and English in Chicago.) I think the problem is more one of trying to get others to conform to your national and secular customs without regard to religious customs, beliefs and practices. I’ve never been there but I bet I wouldn’t find too many trying to anglicize the Divine Liturgy in Ukraine.
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CalifCatholic
Guest
Probably because so many of them have screwed up their own parishes, they are now seeking fresh hunting grounds. Give them the boot, because if they get a foothold, you’ll be a gonner in about 20 years
I can say that because I am a Roman Catholic who barely recognizes his own Church these days.
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ProVobis
Guest
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Seamus_L
Guest
I’ve noticed a policy in the RC church, now being encouraged in some EC churches, where if a particular ethnic group is large enough to fill the church, they should feel free to make that church there own, take it over and be as ethnic as they want. If an ethnic group is aging and shrinking, and particularly if they founded the church, they’re being told to stop being so ethnic, so others from different backgrounds may join.
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ProVobis
Guest
It appears to be more than an RC policy. This is how mega Churches are formed; I’ve seen them even in shopping malls with parking space at a premium.
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malphono
Guest
No, the one has nothing to do with the other. Give [post=7401956]Vico’s post[/post] from earlier in this thread another read (from which I’m excerpting the quotes from CCEO):
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dcointin
Guest
I misunderstood you, my apologies
I would just say to make an effort to understand and appreciate their traditions, and remember that it is the faith that you’re there to participate in, not necessarily the culture. This can be difficult, but also enriching!
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Hesychios
Guest
In the Chicago archdiocese, the concept of ethnic bounderyless parishes is probably more than 100 years old. They were far more numerous when I was young than today.
Even for the regular diocesan parishes, with formal bounderies, it would be extremely unlikely to prevent the ethnic flavor of the neighborhood from manifesting in the parish and I don’t think that it would be wise to try.
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Seamus_L
Guest
I’m aware of that Hesychios. I’ve lived in the Archdiocese of Chicago all my life. My point is that if you speak Spanish or Polish, in many parishes, you’ll be encouraged to be ethnic, but if you come from a much smaller group like Czechs, Slovaks, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Ruthenians, etc it’s common to be told to stop being so ethnic.
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Hesychios
Guest
Ah, a fellow C-lander!
OK.
I will say that my experience is not that broad to be able to comment upon it, you may be right.
I recall that there were a few Croatian Catholic parishes too. The one I am thinking of prominently put that information on the sign out in front. There is also a Korean Catholic parish somewhere in the NW suburbs, Des Plaines perhaps?
As to the Ruthenians, I think the pressure has been coming from inside the group. Some want to preserve characteristics of the ethnicity, and some seem to want to forget it. Probably the people who want to damp it down a bit are hoping to see the church’s prospects for expansion improve. But realistically most of the Nash are several generations into the USA already, many have often already intermarried with RC and almost all are very comfortable with English. For such people Church Slavonic may have a nostalgic appeal, much like Latin would have in the RC, but that is only one small aspect of the Ruthenian tradition and is a separate issue from ethnicity.
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Vico
Guest
At the closest Latin Catholic parish, I see that there are two sets of events and Masses in both English and Spanish at regular times, and on differennt days, to accomodate the large number of Spanish speaking faithful. As as example, there is a festive version of Our Lady of Guadalupe Mass that is offered in Spanish only.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I’m talking about my personal overcoming of the fact that in the parish I am the different one. I hope you took time to read my first post and some of my succeeding post to understand what the point was and did not just merely assume the point of the thread on the title alone.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Thats fine, it is complicated. I am not asking for them to meet me in the cultural middle. I’m just wondering how people here who have moved to an Eastern parish have integrated themselves amidst the cultural disconnect. I want to be viewed as part of the parish and not to feel as merely a visitor.I misunderstood you, my apologies
I would just say to make an effort to understand and appreciate their traditions, and remember that it is the faith that you’re there to participate in, not necessarily the culture. This can be difficult, but also enriching!
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