Pacha Mamma at the Synod (Poll)

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Are you unhappy with having Pacha Mamma omnipresent at the Synod?
  • Yes, I think Pacha Mamma has no place inside the Church
  • No, I think it was ok
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The placing of Pachamama inside the Church was a slap in the face to me and other people hoping to convert. Why be Catholic if they’re just going the way of the Episcopalians?
 
TheBomb! You’re a star! Nailed it.
But believing Catholics reject it the way they reject poison .
We recognize it for the abomination it is.
Join us and stand against it!!!
 
I did not vote. Pachamama * does not exist.

Catechism 2112:
“The first commandment condemns polytheism . It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God.”
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* goddess revered by the indigenous people of the Andes.
 
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Vico said:
Pachamama does not exist.

Catechism 2112:
“The first commandment condemns polytheism . It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God.”
Click to expand...
But the idols do. And you know what lies behind idols. And that’s why the First Commandment not only condemns polytheism, but also idolatry.

And that’s what makes this whole affair not only scandalous, but also very, very dangerous. The Italian bishops shot themselves in the foot when they published that “prayer” to Pachamama, revealing what it really is: a false nature deity, not some native representation of a Christian mystery. That’s the only way to read it. Anything else is spin.

“We’re not stupid! We’re not! This is an idol!”
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I just wanted to let you know that I’m very disappointed with this poll. The option I was looking for was not present. Now I am upset.
I mean yes the two current options are very nice, but there needs to be a third option.

The third option needs to be
Yes, and I am very unhappy about this.
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Also friendly reminder, today (Nov. 9th) the superior general of the sspx asks everyone to pray and fast in reparation to the Immaculate Heart of our Blessed Mother as an apology on behalf of the Church. Our Lady deserves better than that shameful display at the Amazon Synod.

Pray for Pope Francis as he writes his apostolic exhortation. Pray he is guided by the Holy Ghost and not the smoke of satan.

Our Lady of Akita, pray for us!
 
And also that today is the Dedication of the Lateran Basilica, the Cathedral of the Pope, so all the more pray for the continued stability of the Church on its rock foundation.
 
porthos11 said:
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“We’re not stupid! We’re not! This is an idol!”
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I think the issue that should be discussed is giving scandal rather than idolatry by Catholics. Scandal (stumbling block) can even be given through something that is not a sin. It may be an idol to some but is something else to others.
 
Thanks for the reminder, Elias. (Great name, btw!)

3 Kings 18 (whole chapter)(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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Just what we needed! Another “discussion” on Pachamama. As if we didn’t already have enough. Let me know if this changes anything.

The statues were not “omnipresent” at the synod. They were apparently omnipresent in the minds of many Catholic bloggers and journalists.

Satan may be at work here, throwing chum like this into the waters to distract us from our real challenges. I pray for greater unity among the faithful.

I haven’t voted in the poll yet. Don’t quite agree with either position as the choice is posed.
 
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Margaret_Ann said:
Elias. (Great name, btw!)
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I think so too. Saint Elias (called Mar Elias in the Maronite Church, Mar being the Syriac word for saint) is my beloved patron. I carry a card with the icon you posted in my wallet.
 
I replied no because I think it was a cultural display with no intent of idolatry. I trust Pope Francis.
 
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Vico said:
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porthos11:
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“We’re not stupid! We’re not! This is an idol!”
Click to expand...
I think the issue that should be discussed is giving scandal rather than idolatry by Catholics. Scandal (stumbling block) can even be given through something that is not a sin. It may be an idol to some but is something else to others.
Click to expand...
Nope. Scandal and idolatry go hand in hand in this whole affair. This is an idol, and I will not submit to any relativistic spin on this. It is scandalous because it is an idol. That “prayer” published by the Italian bishops? That’s idolatry, or an invitation to idolatry. If it’s not Catholics guilty of idolatry, then they’re guilty of allowing an idolatrous ceremony on Catholic grounds, and idolatrous image in a Catholic sacred space.

Again, to echo Fr. Pacwa: the lot of us aren’t stupid. We just see it as it is.

And as with anything else, I refrain from pronouncing on anyone’s subjective culpability. I speak purely on objective criteria, what is manifest. Objectively, this is an outrage, and grave matter. I would hope some future rector would re-consecrate that church at some point.
 
aroosi said:
I replied yes because I think it was a cultural display with no intent of idolatry. I trust Pope Francis.
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Oh yeah?
Pachamama of these places, drink and eat as much as you like of these offerings, so that this land may be fruitful. Pachamama, good Mother Be propitious! Be propitious! Let the oxen walk well, and let them not get tired. Make the seed taste good, that nothing bad happen to it, that frost may not disrupt it, that it produce good food. We ask you: give us everything. Be propitious! Be propitious!
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That is NOT a cultural display. That is the language of a sacrificial offering. That is the language of worship of a false idol.

We are not dealing with respect of cultures here. We are dealing with the introduction of idols into a Catholic sacred space.
 
That ‘prayer’ was in a booklet with various informations about the situation in the Amazon (there were pages about ethnical groups, geography of the area, biographies of activists killed while defending native rights etc) to illustrate the love for earth in native culture. By the way in the same booklet there were also a generic Catholic prayer and a generic prayer to be peacemakers.
 
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I surely wouldn’t want to be anyone’s pacemaker 😅

In any case, that prayer has no place in the Catholic church, as Fr. Mitch Pacwa has said already. It is a prayer to a goddess whom we do not worship. Sacrifice is to God alone.
 
aroosi said:
That ‘prayer’ was in a booklet with various informations about the situation in the Amazon (there were pages about ethnical groups, geography of the area, biographies of activists killed while defending native rights etc). By the way in the same booklet there were also a generic Catholic prayer and a generic prayer to be pacemakers.
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It does not matter what the booklet was or whether it was published for Catholic use. The “prayer” presents a clear indication of what Pachamama really is: a native goddess, not some mere cultural symbol. You do not offer sacrifice to a mere cultural symbol. You offer sacrifice to a god. That’s why I said they shot themselves in the foot, because they only helped to confirm–if inadvertently–that Pachamama images are idols of false gods.

Therefore, whether people knew it or not, since it’s an idol, its introduction into a Catholic space is absolutely abhorrent. I’m all for respecting cultures. Let them set up a shrine of their own in a non-sacred space, not defile God’s temple with it. And yes, I really mean defile.

That is an idol. You know what lies behind idols.
 
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The poll is limited to those who support the proposition in it. It is unanswerable for me, and is one of the worst and most biased I have seen.
 
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