K
Krisdun
Guest
Does anyone know if Padre Pio celebrated the Novus Ordo mass? Did he ever make any comments about it?
Last edited:
- Status
J
Jbrady
Guest
He died six months before the new Mass began to be said, so no, he never celebrated it.
Probably not. There is a story circulating among radical traditionalists that he asked to still be allowed to say the Tridentine Mass, and that the Vatican granted that request. But there is no reliable source for this outside of rad trad circles, and it sounds highly unlikely.
C
CroatCatholic
Guest
We don’t know what Padre Pio would have definitively thought of the NO, but we could presume that he would be in obedience and faithful, and I think that he would be given permission to celebrate the Latin Mass because of his age.
For me, Padre Pio is a big thing when it comes to this. I mean, think about it, we are talking about a stigmatist saint, who received visions and messages, and many gifts, and was so close to the Lord, and he stayed about 3 years in the Church after VII ended. If the Church became apostate or so after VII, wouldn’t have Padre Pio received a message from the Lord concerning that, and Padre Pio would then become vocal about it. But, Pio stayed in the Church till the end, in faithfulness and obedience. If John XXIII and Paul VI were false popes or heretics, wouldn’t Padre Pio seperate himself from them?
There is also a story of Padre Pio showing John Paul II his shoulder wound, something he didn’t tell to much people, if even any except the future pope. Daniele Natale, a spiritual son and fellow friar of Padre Pio, lived into the 90’s, and he also remained faithful. If anyone knew what Pio would think of VII, NO and so, and how to react to it, his spiritual sons would know better than us.(I did hear of a spiritual daughter of P.Pio who supported Lefebvre, and I think even the Econe consecrations, but again, I think that most stayed with the Church)
And, for my conclusion, here is a letter P.Pio wrote to Paul VI: A Letter From Padre Pio to Pope Paul VI | EWTN
So, we don’t know for sure how he would react, but we could presume that he would be faithful and obedient.
For me, Padre Pio is a big thing when it comes to this. I mean, think about it, we are talking about a stigmatist saint, who received visions and messages, and many gifts, and was so close to the Lord, and he stayed about 3 years in the Church after VII ended. If the Church became apostate or so after VII, wouldn’t have Padre Pio received a message from the Lord concerning that, and Padre Pio would then become vocal about it. But, Pio stayed in the Church till the end, in faithfulness and obedience. If John XXIII and Paul VI were false popes or heretics, wouldn’t Padre Pio seperate himself from them?
There is also a story of Padre Pio showing John Paul II his shoulder wound, something he didn’t tell to much people, if even any except the future pope. Daniele Natale, a spiritual son and fellow friar of Padre Pio, lived into the 90’s, and he also remained faithful. If anyone knew what Pio would think of VII, NO and so, and how to react to it, his spiritual sons would know better than us.(I did hear of a spiritual daughter of P.Pio who supported Lefebvre, and I think even the Econe consecrations, but again, I think that most stayed with the Church)
And, for my conclusion, here is a letter P.Pio wrote to Paul VI: A Letter From Padre Pio to Pope Paul VI | EWTN
So, we don’t know for sure how he would react, but we could presume that he would be faithful and obedient.
Last edited:
K
Krisdun
Guest
Yes we probably will never know what Padre Pio really thought about the NO mass. I agree he probably would have been obedient and celebrated NO mass if still in good health but makes you wonder what he truly thought about it all at the time.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Wasn’t it the case that elderly priests in general were permitted to continue saying the Tridentine Mass if they asked to do so? Presumably because it would have been hard for them to switch after 50 or 60 years of saying Tridentine Mass.
I
Irishmom2
Guest
Obviously he thought he would be obedient. Why would you wonder what he would otherwise think? It sounds like maybe you are trying to project something on to him for some reason.
Last edited:
J
Jbrady
Guest
Probably only in private. I have yet to see convincing evidence that they continued to do so in public except for the handful of “Agatha Christie Indult” Masses occasionally said in England and Wales.
T
tommy37
Guest
In the video of his last Mass he is facing the congregation. I’m not sure if that means he was officially doing the Novus Ordo or not.
T
TK421
Guest
As a friar it doesn’t really matter what he thought - he would agree - but he was obedient to his bishops his entire life even at the expense of being persecuted by them.
Last edited:
J
Jbrady
Guest
It’s mostly Tridentine with some post-conciliar transitional features, but not fully Novus Ordo because that would not be promulgated until six months later, when he was already dead. He died the day after that Mass was filmed.
K
Krisdun
Guest
Not sure about this. If there was a major change to the mass that would have impacted its validity then I doubt Padre Pio would just sit back, say nothing and let it be.
F
FiveLinden
Guest
Is it possible he did not think about it at all? Why would he?
T
tommy37
Guest
Ok, thanks! I figured it wasn’t fully Novus Ordo.
J
Jbrady
Guest
As a friar, he would know that it is not his place to second guess the Pope himself as to the validity of the Mass. And that his own personal opinion would have no significance.
Some radical traditionalists see in him a fellow traveler who would have rejected and denounced the Novus Ordo Missae had he lived long enough to see it introduced. That is a pretty far-fetched bit of wishful thinking, with no basis in reality.
Other rad trads denounce him for caving in to the post-conciliar reforms already in progress before his death, while still others think he was forced to acquiesce against his will. Also pretty far-fetched.
K
Krisdun
Guest
Such a major change in liturgy could potentially have a huge impact on the relationship between humanity and God. I would hate to think all the NO masses I have attended in my life were not valid.
T
TK421
Guest
That’s a contradiction though. If the Church is saying invalid Masses all over the world, then Jesus was wrong, he wasn’t who he said he was, and Christianity is wrong.
Last edited:
F
FiveLinden
Guest
Yes but why would this possibility have occurred to Padre Pio?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Do you honestly think God who guides and protects His Church would have allowed 5 Popes, 2 of whom are now saints and 1 of whom is a Venerable, to promulgate invalid Masses? Why would you even think this? Saints don’t commit sins like that.
Last edited:
O
OraLabora
Guest
The TLM wasn’t always said facing away from the people. It could depend on the orientation of the church (e.g. St. Peter’s in Rome) where ad orientem meant facing the people, or if the altar was between a choir and the nave, in which case the priest can either face the community or canons in the choir, or the faithful in the nave, depending on how the altar is set up.
- Status