J
jrnami
Guest
Canonizations are infallible?Well, just that fact that it’s coming from the “independent” Independent makes it an absolute…well, you know.
And don’t forget that he was canonized and canonizations are infallible.
- Status
L
LilyM
Guest
They sure seem to fit the criteria - a solemn declaration by the Pope on a matter of faith and morals (whether or not someone’s soul is in heaven) that’s intended to be binding on Catholics for all time (he doesn’t canonise people for 20 or 99 years or anything)Canonizations are infallible?
P
peary
Guest
**Yes, canonizations are infallible.
**And, actually, the purpose of the Church’s entire system of ‘sainthood’ is to assure the faithful that the person has been blessed with special graces from God, and that that person, through God’s will, intercedes on our behalf. It also aknowledges that he or she is definitely in heaven.
P
pjn6444
Guest
First it is total garbage. If you noticed it is from a British newsource. Britian is not known for its friendliness to Catholicism. Second these alegations have been made before. Also the newspaper mentions that the pope banned Padre Pio from celebrating mass publicly. This is incorrect Padre Pio was restricted to only one early morning mass. Third those popes did not surpress him because they thought he was a phony, they surpressed him because they were worried about an extreme cult of personallity developing around him. Also in response to another poster who refferred to him as either a fraud or crazy. The Pharaoh and his court accused Moses of being a fake, and said the things he did were just magic. Most of all more so than Padre Pio people have accused Christ of being a fake. Further it wouldn’t be either or. If you intentionally burned your own hands with acid you would most likely be crazy. Padre Pio was neither of these. If someone wrote garbage like this about a religious figure of another faith, they would be in serious hot water. But as usual Anti-Catholicism is the last accepted bigotry.
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
Right,
You haven’t read the article, but it must be anti-Catholic propaganda,
and what do you base that on?
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
Right, so I take it you disreguarded all news stories on the USSR during the cold war
How does that negate the claim?
I’ve read a few books on him(pro Padre Pio) and I was under the impression that this was true and he was baned from saying public Masses
k
Ok, How does that refute the charges in any way whatsoever?
(X)—>Y, - (X) v - (Y) ,/:. - (X)
T T T F T F F T F T
T T F F T T T F F T
F T T T F T F T T F
F T F T F T T F T F
Not only an invalid argument, but you didn’t support the premises
Accusiation=/=Anti-Catholic biggotry
H
homewardbound
Guest
Kinda common sense that anything that attacks Catholic teaching is anti-Catholic.
P
pjn6444
Guest
To your comment on the Soviet Union. I would not have trusted an article written in the Soviet Union about Capitalism and run in Soviet newspapers. Journalists have an agenda; I read the whole article and the author’s agenda is clearly anti-Catholic.
I
Indyann
Guest
If he is “fake”, he sure is powerful!
Padre Pio Credited With Parish’s Conversion
Former Orthodox Woman Says Saint Obtained Cure for Her
By Nieves San Martín
PESCEANA, Romania, NOV. 28, 2007 (Zenit.org).- The 71-year-old mother of a former Orthodox priest says she was cured of lung cancer through the intercession of Padre Pio. After the apparent miracle, the priest explained, he and his mother, and members of his parish, have become Catholics.
Lucrecia Tudor was born into the Romanian Orthodox Church and her son, Victor, followed a vocation to the priesthood. In 2002, he was working in Pesceana, close to Valcea, in south central Romania. Another son, Mariano, dedicated himself to painting, especially iconography, and lives and works in Rome.
The story of the family, and the church they are building dedicated to Saint Pio de Pietrelcina, was related to ZENIT by Italian journalist, Renzo Allegri.
Lucrecia was diagnosed with a tumor in her left lung more than five years ago. Romanian doctors told her surgery was impossible and she had few months to live. Lucrecia and Father Victor turned to Mariano for help, hoping that a doctor in Rome could be found to give a better prognosis.
Mariano contacted a well-known surgeon, who invited the young painter to bring his mother to Rome, where he would try to save her.
After reviewing the reports from his Romanian colleagues, the doctor examined Lucrecia with more detail, only to arrive at the same conclusion: An operation was useless. He could only offer medications to ease the sharp pain, which, he predicted would increase in the terminal phase.
Mariano kept his mother with himself in Rome so as to be near the doctor for checkups. He was working on a mosaic in a church and, as his mother does not speak Italian, he kept her close by. While he was working, his mother walked through the church, contemplating the paintings and statues.
In one corner, there was a large statue of Padre Pio. Lucrecia liked the statue and asked Mariano who it depicted. Mariano related briefly the story of the saint. In the coming days, he saw his mother spending all her time seated before the image, with which she chatted as if it were alive.
Two weeks later, Mariano took his mother to the hospital for her checkup. The doctor said the tumor had disappeared.
Lucrecia had asked Padre Pio to help her, even though she was Orthodox, and, she said, the saint had granted her request.
“The great cure of my mother, accomplished through Padre Pio in favor of an Orthodox woman, impressed me much,” Father Victor said. "I began to read the life of the Italian saint. I told my parishioners what had happened. They all knew my mother and everyone knew we had gone to Italy in order to try a surgical intervention, and that she had returned home cured, without any doctor having operated.
"In my parish, they began to know and love Padre Pio. We read everything we found about him. His holiness won us over. Meanwhile, in my parish other sick people also received extraordinary graces from Padre Pio. Among my people, there spread a great enthusiasm and, little by little, we decided to become Catholics, in order to be closer to Padre.”
The step from the Orthodox to the Catholic Church required a slow process. And there were difficulties of every kind, Allegri explained in relating the story. But the parishioners continued in the process and even decided to build a church to dedicate it to Padre Pio.
"The funds are the result of the savings of this poor people, and of the help of some German Catholics who heard our story,” Father Victor said. “And my parishioners are those who are bringing forward the work, working for free, naturally. …] After a few days, we celebrated solemnly the placing of the first stone. And it was a big party, because the Metropolitan Archbishop of Fagaras and Alba Julia of the Romanians, meaning, the highest authority of the Greek Catholic Church in Romania, came to celebrate …] To conclude this ceremony, the metropolitan wished to meet my mother, cured through a miracle of Padre Pio, and posed with her for a photo.”
From Zenit
Padre Pio Credited With Parish’s Conversion
Former Orthodox Woman Says Saint Obtained Cure for Her
By Nieves San Martín
PESCEANA, Romania, NOV. 28, 2007 (Zenit.org).- The 71-year-old mother of a former Orthodox priest says she was cured of lung cancer through the intercession of Padre Pio. After the apparent miracle, the priest explained, he and his mother, and members of his parish, have become Catholics.
Lucrecia Tudor was born into the Romanian Orthodox Church and her son, Victor, followed a vocation to the priesthood. In 2002, he was working in Pesceana, close to Valcea, in south central Romania. Another son, Mariano, dedicated himself to painting, especially iconography, and lives and works in Rome.
The story of the family, and the church they are building dedicated to Saint Pio de Pietrelcina, was related to ZENIT by Italian journalist, Renzo Allegri.
Lucrecia was diagnosed with a tumor in her left lung more than five years ago. Romanian doctors told her surgery was impossible and she had few months to live. Lucrecia and Father Victor turned to Mariano for help, hoping that a doctor in Rome could be found to give a better prognosis.
Mariano contacted a well-known surgeon, who invited the young painter to bring his mother to Rome, where he would try to save her.
After reviewing the reports from his Romanian colleagues, the doctor examined Lucrecia with more detail, only to arrive at the same conclusion: An operation was useless. He could only offer medications to ease the sharp pain, which, he predicted would increase in the terminal phase.
Mariano kept his mother with himself in Rome so as to be near the doctor for checkups. He was working on a mosaic in a church and, as his mother does not speak Italian, he kept her close by. While he was working, his mother walked through the church, contemplating the paintings and statues.
In one corner, there was a large statue of Padre Pio. Lucrecia liked the statue and asked Mariano who it depicted. Mariano related briefly the story of the saint. In the coming days, he saw his mother spending all her time seated before the image, with which she chatted as if it were alive.
Two weeks later, Mariano took his mother to the hospital for her checkup. The doctor said the tumor had disappeared.
Lucrecia had asked Padre Pio to help her, even though she was Orthodox, and, she said, the saint had granted her request.
“The great cure of my mother, accomplished through Padre Pio in favor of an Orthodox woman, impressed me much,” Father Victor said. "I began to read the life of the Italian saint. I told my parishioners what had happened. They all knew my mother and everyone knew we had gone to Italy in order to try a surgical intervention, and that she had returned home cured, without any doctor having operated.
"In my parish, they began to know and love Padre Pio. We read everything we found about him. His holiness won us over. Meanwhile, in my parish other sick people also received extraordinary graces from Padre Pio. Among my people, there spread a great enthusiasm and, little by little, we decided to become Catholics, in order to be closer to Padre.”
The step from the Orthodox to the Catholic Church required a slow process. And there were difficulties of every kind, Allegri explained in relating the story. But the parishioners continued in the process and even decided to build a church to dedicate it to Padre Pio.
"The funds are the result of the savings of this poor people, and of the help of some German Catholics who heard our story,” Father Victor said. “And my parishioners are those who are bringing forward the work, working for free, naturally. …] After a few days, we celebrated solemnly the placing of the first stone. And it was a big party, because the Metropolitan Archbishop of Fagaras and Alba Julia of the Romanians, meaning, the highest authority of the Greek Catholic Church in Romania, came to celebrate …] To conclude this ceremony, the metropolitan wished to meet my mother, cured through a miracle of Padre Pio, and posed with her for a photo.”
From Zenit
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
It’s not attacking a Catholic teaching, it’s mentioning a book critical of a MAJOR cultural figure of Itally. That’s news.
It cites Catholic Anti-Defimation leage, and mentiones that the Holy See reviewed the evidence during the cannoziation process.
By this low threshold, my saying that Israel commits human rights violations is anti-semitic
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
I asked if you disreguarded all information about the USSR in the American press during the Cold War
T
tzarno1
Guest
Give it a rest, Karamozov. Your attempt at replying as a Socratic philosopher is laughable.
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
If I were attempting to reply as a Socratic I’d only ask questions. It might be laughiable, however I haven’t seen anyone refute the claims. I am not inclined to beleive them, however Catholics need to provide a response more substantive that just claiming it’s, “anti Catholic biggotry”
W
water
Guest
PESCEANA, Romania, NOV. 28, 2007 (Zenit.org).- The 71-year-old mother of a former Orthodox priest says she was cured of lung cancer through the intercession of Padre Pio. After the apparent miracle, the priest explained, he and his mother, and members of his parish, have become Catholics.
…read more at: zenit.org/article-21136?l=english
…read more at: zenit.org/article-21136?l=english
P
peary
Guest
**For those who don’t believe, no proof is sufficient. For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
**
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
don’t beleive what? This isin’t a matter of religious faith, it a matter of fact. Is there any basis to her claims or not?**For those who don’t believe, no proof is sufficient. For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
P
peary
Guest
There is absolutely NO basis to the claim that Padre Pio ‘faked’ his stigmata for 50 years.
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
Ok, is she a liar?
I don’t want to degreade Padre Pio but it would be nice to have some actual reasons for dismissing her claims, what were the Vatican’s reasons?
W
water
Guest
it seems like he didn’t stay long in Purgatory. He is working at the moment from Heaven:
zenit.org/article-21136?l=english
zenit.org/article-21136?l=english
P
peary
Guest
Her so-called claims cannot be validly substantiated and most are just plain wrong. It’s like that article on the Vatican euthanizing the pope. The “medical evidence suggests…” that he was euthanized, but this flies in the face of reality. Same with the “evidence suggests…” in the case of Padre Pio.
- Status