Pagans in the UK

[BlessedBe13]

oat soda:

paganism make me sick. according to neo-pagan doctrine, anything goes.

I wouldn’t call it “anything goes”, but since paganism isn’t a religion in itself, it would be expected that there would be great diversity. Paganism is an umbrella term for many different religions, just as Christianity is an umbrella term for many religions.

i say lets have a revolution and kick neo-pagan a@# back to france.

Thanks, but I’m happy in the U.S. so I’m not going anywhere. You’re quite welcome to go to Europe though.

 

[BlessedBe13]

brotherhrolf:

If true, they should be worshiping Wotan et al rather than the “Godess”.

There are some Pagans that do. Others worship simply the Goddess and God. Some worship the Norse Gods, others the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, etc. Many different religions.

 

[BlessedBe13]

oat soda:

mine were handed down to me by the apostles.

Pssst! Someone had to make up the “values” that the apostles handed down as well. According to your logic, that means they believed in fantasy, and so do you because you believe what they say.

by the way, pagans who reject the church all go to hell.

I’m not . But since we get to play God today, I say that anyone who makes rude comments about homosexuals (i.e. all gays going to hell) is going to hell.

 

[BlessedBe13]

oat soda:

i didn’t mean physical violence towards them but to send them literally to france.

I’m not leaving here willingly, so it would take physical violence to get me on a plane or boat to France.

that is why europe is going down the tubes, white people aren’t having kids.

Sounds a little racist. shrugs I guess you haven’t taken a look at certain parts of America. Couple cities near where I live there isn’t a whole lot of “whiteness” to be found. Guess I should start having babies so that America doesn’t go down the tubes?

 

[oat_soda]

I’m not leaving here willingly, so it would take physical violence to get me on a plane or boat to France.

you would be much happier there, plenty of pagans and moral relativism. the guys can act like women too and fit right in. look, if you reject the catholic church, you are going to hell. a pagan would generally fit this description. this is catholic doctrine so don’t get mad at me. i wish every neo-pagan would convert to catholicism, but short of that, i hope they move to france. and the population in europe is going down because the people are not having kids. this is a fact. don’t worry, us real catholics are going to have lots of kids to bring into the faith. in the end we’ll win because we like big families.

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Churchneo pagans in europe and n. america know of the church)

 

[BlessedBe13]

oat soda:

you would be much happier there, plenty of pagans and moral relativism.

Nope. Happy here. And I don’t need to surround myself with people only of my faith. I’m not that insecure.

the guys can act like women too and fit right in.

What does this even have to do with anything.

if you reject the catholic church, you are going to hell.

I don’t believe in hell. I suppose that your above statement just reinforces my idea that your God is not an all-loving God.

a pagan would generally fit this description.

Pretty much anyone thats non-Catholic does.

this is catholic doctrine so don’t get mad at me.

I’m not mad. You are not God and neither is the Catholic Church so even if there was a hell neither you or the Church, or anyone else, can say whether or not I’m going there.

i wish every neo-pagan would convert to catholicism, but short of that, i hope they move to france.

I converted from Catholicism and I’m not going to France.

and the population in europe is going down because the people are not having kids.

Makes sense.

don’t worry, us real catholics are going to have lots of kids to bring into the faith.

That’s nice. I’ll have lots of kids to raise how I want. Or at least how me and the father would want.

in the end we’ll win because we like big families.

Lots of people like big families, not just Catholics. And not all Catholics I know like big families. Three is usually enough. And what is this win? More doesn’t mean better.

 

[oat_soda]

I converted from Catholicism

all things being equal, you are headed for hell if you converted from catholicism to paganism. you’re completely cut off from God’s grace (mortal sin) because you reject it. if you die in this state unrepentant, which one could objectively say you are in, you will go to hell.

since you “know” the church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, you refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. You should fear God. Only God allows you to spend eternity in hell. Hell is for real, so is evil, so is the devil. the devil wants you to not believe in him. 23,000 people just died in indonesia,malaysia, …etc. they didn’t think they were going to die and some of them are in hell right now because they didn’t repent in time. you could be next. do not waste anymore time. I hope you repent and come back to the church. this isn’t a joke, your soul is at stake weather you believe it or not.

 

[Brad]

Pssst! Someone had to make up the “values” that the apostles handed down as well. According to your logic, that means they believed in fantasy, and so do you because you believe what they say. I’m not . But since we get to play God today, I say that anyone who makes rude comments about homosexuals (i.e. all gays going to hell) is going to hell.

Doesn’t matter what you say. There is one truth, one faith, one Baptism, one true religion. It is housed under the Church that Christ founded.

You can believe what you want to believe but you cannot defend your beliefs as truth using reason if they are based on lies.

 

[BlessedBe13]

oat soda:

all things being equal, you are headed for hell if you converted from catholicism to paganism.

No, because there is no hell.

you’re completely cut off from God’s grace (mortal sin) because you reject it.

I do not reject God at all. The Catholic Church, yes, but not God.

Only God allows you to spend eternity in hell.

I believe in an all-loving Creator. Such a being would not condemn the creations that he “loves” so much to a place such as hell.

Hell is for real, so is evil, so is the devil.

Evil is real, but it comes from people, not some supernatural being. Even if the devil is real, it is your God that created him, so in the end, it would be your God responsible for all the evil in the world.

23,000 people just died in indonesia,malaysia, …etc. they didn’t think they were going to die and some of them are in hell right now because they didn’t repent in time.

So now you are God and get to condemn people to hell?

 

[BlessedBe13]

Brad:

Doesn’t matter what you say. There is one truth, one faith, one Baptism, one true religion. It is housed under the Church that Christ founded.

Just because Catholicism says it is the one true religion does not make it so.

You can believe what you want to believe but you cannot defend your beliefs as truth using reason if they are based on lies.

I’m not basing anything on lies.

 

[Tlaloc]

Brad:

Doesn’t matter what you say. There is one truth, one faith, one Baptism, one true religion. It is housed under the Church that Christ founded.

You can believe what you want to believe but you cannot defend your beliefs as truth using reason if they are based on lies.

Brad, take a minute and think about this. What do you hope to accomplish by this statement? I mean really, what use is there in telling someone that there is one true church when they’ve already explicitly stated they don’t believe in it? Do you expect that because you call it the one true church someone will suddenly just change their mind? All you are doing is being insulting by insisting you are right while not bothering to actually support your position.

Do you wonder why the number of christians is declining in the US?

 

[BlessedBe13]

Tlaloc:

Do you expect that because you call it the one true church someone will suddenly just change their mind?

Exactly. The words “this is the one, true church” mean nothing to me, primarily because it is not backed up with any argument. Instead it is used as THE argument. It is not a good argument at all - neither are “because it is in the Bible”, “because the Church said so”, etc. These may be considered good arguments to some Catholics/Christians, because that is probably what they already believe so they don’t need anymore support, but to a non-Christian those “arguments” really mean nothing unless backed up with good reasoning.

Islam also asserts that it is the one true faith. Should I change my mind and become a Muslim, just because they say so?

 

[Brad]

BlessedBe13:

Just because Catholicism says it is the one true religion does not make it so.

I’m not basing anything on lies.

You said there is no hell. That’s a lie and it is not based on reason. How do you know there is no hell? Was Jesus Christ a liar, insane, or did he not really exist? You have to pick one of the three options because He spoke a whole “heck” of a lot about hell.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Brad:

You said there is no hell. That’s a lie and it is not based on reason. How do you know there is no hell? Was Jesus Christ a liar, insane, or did he not really exist? You have to pick one of the three options because He spoke a whole “heck” of a lot about hell.

I’m sure Jesus was a real person. I don’t believe he was/is God. I believe hell was created to scare people into following a particular religion.

 

[Brad]

Tlaloc:

Brad, take a minute and think about this. What do you hope to accomplish by this statement? I mean really, what use is there in telling someone that there is one true church when they’ve already explicitly stated they don’t believe in it? Do you expect that because you call it the one true church someone will suddenly just change their mind? All you are doing is being insulting by insisting you are right while not bothering to actually support your position.

Do you wonder why the number of christians is declining in the US?

Not that I’m fit to tie their sandals, but St.Paul and St. Peter never refrained from speaking the truth in the face of blatant attacks against their faith - and the Church grew to a phenomenally large level. There are other people on these forums too that might need to see a little conviction - not a popular commodity these days but comes in pretty handy when you are building Churches or nations - or just refuting unabashed heretics (is that an insult too? If you think yes then think about why you think it is an insult)

It’s not being telling the truth that decreases the number of Christians. It is people NOT telling the truth or shying away from it.

By the way, I’m ready, willing, and able to support my position to anyone who is interested in seeking truth for I am always prepared “to give a reason for the hope that is within me.”

I don’t wonder why the number of Christians is declining in the US because that isn’t true either.

 

[Brad]

BlessedBe13:

Exactly. The words “this is the one, true church” mean nothing to me, primarily because it is not backed up with any argument. Instead it is used as THE argument. It is not a good argument at all - neither are “because it is in the Bible”, “because the Church said so”, etc. These may be considered good arguments to some Catholics/Christians, because that is probably what they already believe so they don’t need anymore support, but to a non-Christian those “arguments” really mean nothing unless backed up with good reasoning.

Islam also asserts that it is the one true faith. Should I change my mind and become a Muslim, just because they say so?

Jesus fufilled over 100 prophecies of the Old Testament - most written over 1,000 years prior to his birth. Jesus also rose from the dead, which is the most historically attested to event in history. He also said to Peter that “upon this rock, I will build my Church”. Apostlolic succession to today’s Bishops in the Catholic Chur h can be traced from Peter.
Jesus miracles are recorded by multiple sources both in the Bible and outside the Bible.

Islam can and has never made any claims comparable to the above - and that is because they would have to make up their claims and they would have been proven wrong very quickly.

What evidence do you have that your faith is true?

 

[Brad]

BlessedBe13:

I’m sure Jesus was a real person. I don’t believe he was/is God. I believe hell was created to scare people into following a particular religion.

So - then - when Jesus talked about hell, was he a liar or was he insane?

 

[BlessedBe13]

Brad:

So - then - when Jesus talked about hell, was he a liar or was he insane?

For all anyone knows, Jesus didn’t talk about hell and that was just added into the Bible afterwards.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Brad:

What evidence do you have that your faith is true?

The same amount of evidence that you do - faith.

 

[Tlaloc]

Brad:

By the way, I’m ready, willing, and able to support my position to anyone who is interested in seeking truth for I am always prepared “to give a reason for the hope that is within me.”

Then do that rather than making sweeping statements to no purpose.

I don’t wonder why the number of Christians is declining in the US because that isn’t true either.

Yeah actually it is. 86% of americans claimed to be christian a decade ago, the number is now down to about 77%. Based on this study:
gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm

(see what i mean about backing up a statement?)