Pajama Church

[dachsiemom2]

Akron parishes are part of the Cleveland diocese. I can’t imagine Bishop Lennon condoning wearing PJs to mass.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Why should there be worry over pajama’s when in 1 Tim 2:9 it is clear no one should be wearing gold or pearls. That about wipes out everyone in the parish I go to. I feel like asking the priest I talk to about this to see what he will say. How can anyone get upset about PJ’s when it could be that most people are in danger of violating this scripture? I never saw a scripture about PJ’s but, if it is there it would be surpising since Jesus healed a young girl in her bed, and I imagine she had PJ’s on.

 

[sidbrown]

You have seen these announcements?

Yes I did and I made a complaint in writing to the local Church. My complaint was not welcomed. Basically it was short and simply said that I did not think that pajamas were appropriate attire for Mass.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Yes I did and I made a complaint in writing to the local Church. My complaint was not welcomed. Basically it was short and simply said that I did not think that pajamas were appropriate attire for Mass.

Thanks for the reply.

I am glad you stood up and pointed out that this was wrong.

I am sorry that those in authority did not respect you or the truth.

I will pray for them to see the light and for you to keep up the strength to fight the good fight.

 

[Apryl]

i don’t fully agree with the pyjama thing, but i’m also not too big on dressing up

i get the message. an armani suit won’t change anything or hide anything if you have a sinful heart. but at the same time, a level of decency should prevail

The move from pyjamas at Mass is NOT to ‘dressing up’, although to dress up is not a bad thing

What is a problem (for me) is those whose reason for going to church on Sunday is not to honor the Lord, but to show off their outfits and to be seen.

I don’t think that it’s bad to wear nice, ‘presentable’ clothing to Mass. I’m all for the ‘Come as you are’, and ‘You don’t have to have special clothes to go to Mass’, but I don’t think that means that people should look like they interrupted their softball game to come to Mass. Nor should they look like they are coming from a Night Club. There is a time and a place for everything.

Those who say, ‘Oh, but that person… that may be all they have’. I am certain that the speaker is trying to be charitable, but the person wearing the questionable garments seldom defend their choices… heck, they seldom consider their choices. "Don’t say anything; you might offend them’.

I try to think, ‘If the Queen of England were at the church, would I be ok in what I’m wearing?’. I’m not British. I’m an American, so royalty means next to nothing to me. Still, I would not wear a garment to church and have to wonder if I’m covered, if I am neat (please wear CLEAN clothes). Of if I have some political statement that is vulgar.

When I’m at home, or just away from church, there are a lot of things I would wear that would NOT be on me when I am coming into a church.

Sadly, years ago, I stopped coming to Mass when a nun was at Easter Sunday Mass wearing a pant suit. Today, that would not even register in my mental monitor, but at the time I was so offended that I didn’t come to Mass, or receive the sacraments. I can only police myself.

When I visit the church of my Protestant friends and relatives, I take the same things into consideration. I wouldn’t wear it at home, I won’t wear it when I visit you.

 

[Tepeyac]

No. It is more than something on the radio. There have been announcements in the bulletin of the local Catholic church to that effect.

Can you be more clear about these announcemets? What exactly did they say? Were these regular Sunday Masses or were they for special events, like for example, for a youth group or a family retreat?

This seems to be a rather serious change in Church teaching since Vatican II, where people are encouraged to wear their pajamas to Mass.

If this is true this isn’t an example of a change in Church teaching, it’s an example of a local person or group’s unusual (and possibly misguided) idea. Most people on the thread have expressed suprise and/or dismay at the idea so that shows how strange this idea is still perceived by most people several decades after Vatican II.

I can’t disagree more.
I don’t understand why anyone would deliberately wear more informal attire – not to mention denim, which is associated with both manual labor and the ultra-casual – to Mass. To me, the statement is: Mass is less important than work, and no more important than recreation.

I think this can depend on where you live. I live in a working class parish where, for some people (like day laborers, etc.) a nice pair of jeans is their nicest pair of pants. I’ve also lived in rural places where men’s nice clothes were nice jeans, nice cowboy boots and nice button shirts.

Denim has been losing it’s strict association with manual labor for a long time, since at least the “designer jeans” trend of the 70s and 80s. If you do a web search for “dressy jeans” and “dressy casual” you’ll see what I mean. Like this blog post.

That being said, I think a lot of us could make a little bit of effort to improve our appearance at Mass (while trying not to be judgemental about other’s appearances).

 

[Apryl]

one can easily make the case that by “proper wedding garment”, Jesus was not talking about clothes but dressing our hearts and souls properly to receive Him

as i mentioned in my post earlier, there’s nothing an Armani suit can do about a sinful heart

What do you have against Armani?

That reminds me of the guys who complain about not being able to find a nice woman to date. ‘I don’t make $100,000 a year, so they don’t want me’. So what about all the guys who are working class, with working class jobs and working class incomes who have women all over the place?

So, to keep tossing Armani in the pile is an extreme example (I’m sure you were going for extreme, but it was repeated)
If the focus of your participation in the Mass is on the Eucharist, your wearing an Armani suit won’t take that away. But if your Armani suit is a distraction to those around you because it draws attention for others from the Mass, and probably you, too, then we have a problem.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why should there be worry over pajama’s when in 1 Tim 2:9 it is clear no one should be wearing gold or pearls. That about wipes out everyone in the parish I go to. I feel like asking the priest I talk to about this to see what he will say. How can anyone get upset about PJ’s when it could be that most people are in danger of violating this scripture? I never saw a scripture about PJ’s but, if it is there it would be surpising since Jesus healed a young girl in her bed, and I imagine she had PJ’s on.

Why worry about presumption, when so many people despair? Obviously, that one extreme is improper does not imply that the other extreme is therefore OK.

The quote is not that women are forbidden from wearing pearls or gold, but that they are to adorn themselves with proper conduct, modesty, and self-control. All the gold and pearls in the world won’t compensate for a lack in that which ought to make a Christian woman remarkable.

Your pastor isn’t going to condemn the rich for wearing rich clothing any more than they will condemn the poor for showing up in poor clothing. St. James wrote that there should be no favoritism shown to the rich over the poor, or to the richly dressed over the poorly dressed. He did not say that those who showed up for Mass richly dressed should be turned away, only that they should not be fawned over on account of their wealth. Wealth is a spiritual danger, this is true, but having wealth is not a sin, per se.

The question here is whether it is proper to encourage Catholics to wear sleepwear to Sunday Mass. If it is so simple as that, the answer is “no”. There aren’t many ways I could imagine to make the matter less simple than that, but since I haven’t see or heard the actual announcements myself I’m willing to concede that ways could possibly exist.

As for Jesus healing the girl who had died, it is OK to receive the Annointing of the Sick in one’s pajamas (or in a hospital gown insufficient to reliably to cover you on a stroll to the nurse’s station, for that matter). The discussion is about what people should be advised to wear to Sunday Mass.

 

[choy]

What do you have against Armani?

my point there was a really nice and really expensive suit won’t change the fact that a person is an adulterer or a thief or a corrupt government official or whatever other sinner

not that i have anything against Armani

That reminds me of the guys who complain about not being able to find a nice woman to date. ‘I don’t make $100,000 a year, so they don’t want me’. So what about all the guys who are working class, with working class jobs and working class incomes who have women all over the place?

lol, i agree. i find more womanizers in the working class than those with high paying jobs. i guess more time to do those stuff than the ones who make a lot of money but are burried in their work

So, to keep tossing Armani in the pile is an extreme example (I’m sure you were going for extreme, but it was repeated)
If the focus of your participation in the Mass is on the Eucharist, your wearing an Armani suit won’t take that away. But if your Armani suit is a distraction to those around you because it draws attention for others from the Mass, and probably you, too, then we have a problem.

agreed

i’m a proponent of decency in mass. but requiring overdressing is missing the point. in the Philippines they put up a dress code in the church. some i agree with, some not. women shouldn’t be wearing revealing clothing for one thing. but there are shorts that are decent enough for church, especially that the Philippines is such a warm country (warm being an understatement, its over 30-degrees celcius 75% of the year during daytime)

 

[choy]

The move from pyjamas at Mass is NOT to ‘dressing up’, although to dress up is not a bad thing

what i was saying was, i get that the pyjamas thing is meant to say, “it doesn’t matter what you wear as long as you’re heart is clean and ready to receive Jesus”

i’m saying that i don’t agree with the dress up thing as much as i don’t agree with dressing down as if you’re in the comforts of your own home

What is a problem (for me) is those whose reason for going to church on Sunday is not to honor the Lord, but to show off their outfits and to be seen.

I don’t think that it’s bad to wear nice, ‘presentable’ clothing to Mass. I’m all for the ‘Come as you are’, and ‘You don’t have to have special clothes to go to Mass’, but I don’t think that means that people should look like they interrupted their softball game to come to Mass. Nor should they look like they are coming from a Night Club. There is a time and a place for everything.

totally agree with this one. a level of decency should be followed, not too much, not too little

Those who say, ‘Oh, but that person… that may be all they have’. I am certain that the speaker is trying to be charitable, but the person wearing the questionable garments seldom defend their choices… heck, they seldom consider their choices. "Don’t say anything; you might offend them’.

I try to think, ‘If the Queen of England were at the church, would I be ok in what I’m wearing?’. I’m not British. I’m an American, so royalty means next to nothing to me. Still, I would not wear a garment to church and have to wonder if I’m covered, if I am neat (please wear CLEAN clothes). Of if I have some political statement that is vulgar.

When I’m at home, or just away from church, there are a lot of things I would wear that would NOT be on me when I am coming into a church.

Sadly, years ago, I stopped coming to Mass when a nun was at Easter Sunday Mass wearing a pant suit. Today, that would not even register in my mental monitor, but at the time I was so offended that I didn’t come to Mass, or receive the sacraments. I can only police myself.

When I visit the church of my Protestant friends and relatives, I take the same things into consideration. I wouldn’t wear it at home, I won’t wear it when I visit you.

why let what a nun did influence your belief in God?

 

[Apryl]

why let what a nun did influence your belief in God?

Because I was a child, who thought as a child.

I saw the error of my ways, and I would not let her dress influence me.

(It NEVER kept me from believing in or loving God. It just kept me from attending Mass)

Her behavior should have had much more impact. I let her outward appearance keep me from that. Shame on me!

 

[Young_Thinker]

I would say a pertinent quote.

Thank you. Conservatism(at least that of the educated), at its core, is a distrust of mankind.

 

[daeve]

My pajamas are my skivies. How would that work?

Ooh, ooh, ooh! You would get some “Sunday go to meetin’ pajamas!”

 

[Elizabeth502]

I think this can depend on where you live. I live in a working class parish where, for some people (like day laborers, etc.) a nice pair of jeans is their nicest pair of pants. I’ve also lived in rural places where men’s nice clothes were nice jeans, nice cowboy boots and nice button shirts.

Again, I am not talking about rural locations. Did you read my post completely? (That was a No.)

This is a suburb. The parishioners have enough of a wardrobe to dress for work in actual offices, where jeans – despite how popular and “fashionable” and “everyday” they have become, are most assuredly not acceptable as office attire.

No, these people are not without a wardrobe. The statement is, “I’m dressing down.” The statement is, “It’s the weekend, so I get to relax; these are my relaxing clothes.” And I don’t buy that it’s a matter of inappropriate judgment. If the behavior were reverent and respectful, I would be less interested in the attire. In fact, at a different parish I sometimes attend, there’s a late-night Mass for students. Guess what their attire is? Mostly jeans, with some wearing pants, skirts, but with 100% of the attendees very reverent, quiet, attentive, prayerful. No one considers much what the attire is, because all of us are concentrating on the meaningful silence. And truly many college students have not much of a wardrobe.

The point is that the casual behavior and the casual dress, both, at Mass, in the suburban parish I described, are complementary. One reflects the other. I think it’s a huge statement that no effort is made to change out of jeans for a lousy hour on a Sunday just because you feel entitled to relax for the rest of the weekend.

 

[Apryl]

No, these people are not without a wardrobe. The statement is, “I’m dressing down.” The statement is, “It’s the weekend, so I get to relax; these are my relaxing clothes.” And I don’t buy that it’s a matter of inappropriate judgment. If the behavior were reverent and respectful, I would be less interested in the attire. In fact, at a different parish I sometimes attend, there’s a late-night Mass for students. Guess what their attire is? Mostly jeans, with some wearing pants, skirts, but with 100% of the attendees very reverent, quiet, attentive, prayerful. No one considers much what the attire is, because all of us are concentrating on the meaningful silence. And truly many college students have not much of a wardrobe.

The point is that the casual behavior and the casual dress, both, at Mass, in the suburban parish I described, are complementary. One reflects the other. I think it’s a huge statement that no effort is made to change out of jeans for a lousy hour on a Sunday just because you feel entitled to relax for the rest of the weekend.

Yeah… what she said!

 

[Cathryn]

This is from the USCCB:

November 14, 2006
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

“Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Supper:
On Preparing to Receive Christ Worthily in the Eucharist”

“ Appropriate attire
We should also come to the sacred liturgy appropriately dressed. As Christians we should dress in a modest manner, wearing clothes that reflect our reverence for God and that manifest our respect for the dignity of the liturgy and for one another.”

 

[Don9of11]

I happen to live in the Akron area and I can say with some certainty that there are no Catholic church advertising any kind of pajama mass. What is happening in the Akron area is a lot of churches are closing or merging. My parish St. Mary’s is merging with St. Bernard and the new parish name will be St. Bernard - St. Mary Parish, I am a little biased though, I think it should be other way around.

I was just at 5:30 Mass for the Ash Wednesday service, and about the only thing you’ll see people wearing are winter coats and hats and gloves!

 

[Tepeyac]

“Did you read my post completely? (That was a No.)”

Do you think the sarcasm was really appropriate (and clever)? If anything sarcasm can turn people off from what you’re trying to say.

I was responding to

I don’t understand why anyone would deliberately wear more informal

attire and I gave a couple of reasons: 1. the environment where you live, and 2. the loss of the association of denim with manual labor. The second reason could easily apply to that suburban parish since you mentioned most of the parishioners have jobs that require at least “business casual”. Nowadays in many places that allows jeans. That’s why I suggested doing a search for “dressy jeans” and pointed out this blog as an example.

“This is a suburb

. The parishioners have enough of a wardrobe to dress for work in actual offices, where jeans – despite how popular and “fashionable” and “everyday” they have become, are most assuredly not acceptable as office attire.”

Do a web search for “office jeans” and you get links such as:

Best Denim For The Office from Forbes magazine

Denim Jeans in the Office

How To Wear Jeans To Work

Etc.

If even Forbes is giving advice on wearing jeans to the office then don’t be surprised when you see suburban office workers wearing jeans to Mass. Whether jeans in the office is good or bad is another thing.

You’re welcome to bemoan this attitude as much as you’d like but that in itself won’t change people’s attitudes, neither will sarcasm. The funny thing is at the end of my post I expressed feelings similar to yours

I think a lot of us could make a little bit of effort to improve our appearance at Mass

but you did not acknowledge that. I’m not saying people should wear jeans to Mass and ironically my ideas about clothing might even be closer to yours than you realize but your manner of addressing me has pushed me into playing devil’s advocate.

No, these people are not without a wardrobe. The statement is, “I’m dressing down.” The statement is, “It’s the weekend, so I get to relax; these are my relaxing clothes.” And I don’t buy that it’s a matter of inappropriate judgment. If the behavior were reverent and respectful, I would be less interested in the attire. In fact, at a different parish I sometimes attend, there’s a late-night Mass for students. Guess what their attire is? Mostly jeans, with some wearing pants, skirts, but with 100% of the attendees very reverent, quiet, attentive, prayerful. No one considers much what the attire is, because all of us are concentrating on the meaningful silence. And truly many college students have not much of a wardrobe.

So, is your issue with the suburban parishioners their behavior or their manner of dress? Why does the wearing of jeans seem to affect the suburbanites but not the students?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Why are you so obsessed with fashion? Perhaps you mean well, but you seem to think that I need a fashion lesson, when I don’t.

I don’t know where you live, but I live in what is considered one of the most informal regions of the country. Jeans are not appropriate Business Casual attire in an office. I don’t care if they’re Guess Jeans. I don’t care if they’re Tommy Hilfiger. Jeans are more informal than Business Casual, universally in my very large metropolitan region, in the very offices where these parishioners work. (Not retail stores, not restaurants, not gas stations.) And if they were trying to make a fashion statement, dirty, faded, unpressed, sloppy-fitting jeans with athletic shoes, yard-work T-shirts, and the casual attitude that accompanies all that, does not cut it as a Mass fashion statement. These are not farmhands, migrant workers, or truck drivers passing through town. The reason I even brought it up is that frankly they were wearing them as if they were pajamas: they looked as if they basically just got out of bed in a Come As You Are mentality, with zero effort.

So, is your issue with the suburban parishioners their behavior or their manner of dress?

Fair question. Again, when one complements or mirrors the other, both are separately issues, actually. When the behavior is quite a contrast to the dress (whether it’s bad behavior in dressy clothes, or vice-versa), then the behavior I think should be the focus. Tonight at Mass there were various sorts of dress. Most people came from home (it was after dinner), and so were wearing typically “church clothes” (while not fancy), but many of us were coming from work. That meant I happened to be wearing a suit, while some were dressed “informally” and still others had their hospital scrubs on. For the most part, people were reverent. The thing that bothered me the most was not anyone’s clothing at all (I was too focused on the Mass as a whole experience), but I couldn’t help noticing, since I was up front, one child about 9 years old, who when receiving communion, threw the host up in the air and caught it playfully in her mouth, with a big grin, as if it was popcorn. I thought that was pretty bad.

Why does the wearing of jeans seem to affect the suburbanites but not the students?

Another good question, to which I might have an answer: the students are very serious about this Mass. It does not attract anyone who wants a rapid in-n-out experience. They’re not attending out of “obligation,” but as a choice; thus, their attitude reflects that. There’s no grudging, “Gee, it’s my day off; why should I ‘have’ to go to Mass? To demonstrate my passive aggression, I’ll dress sloppily to indicate that I deserve actually to be doing something else.”

Even though it’s late at night, about 30-40 people out of the approximately 200 attending stay on afterward to pray . No one yucks it up in the body of the church. It’s not an EF Mass, but it’s just reverent. There’s candelight only, and meditative music. (The priests have to use tiny flashlights to illumine the scripture and Mass readings.) This Mass often brings me to tears. In sum, different congregation, with a different focus. It’s not all students, but it’s geared mostly for them. There are plenty of us adults who are not currently students, and they have the same reverent attitude, and come for the same specialness of it; we blend right in.

Hope that helps.

 

[sidbrown]

This is from the USCCB:

November 14, 2006
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

“Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Supper:
On Preparing to Receive Christ Worthily in the Eucharist”

“ Appropriate attire
We should also come to the sacred liturgy appropriately dressed. As Christians we should dress in a modest manner, wearing clothes that reflect our reverence for God and that manifest our respect for the dignity of the liturgy and for one another.”

This seems pretty vague to me and it doesn’t really explicitly rule out a lot of things.