Palestinian-Israeli Conflict

[Sister_Amy]

Do they truly Want peace? It is quite possible for Both countries to co-exist as neighbors in a very peaceful way but it seems that both sides do not want this.

To me in the United States with our slanted agenda biased news reporters (can ya tell I don’t trust nor like our news media? ) it seems like both sides have a mentality of “Last Man Standing” wins. (I pray I am wrong).

Palestine,Go to work, feed and love your family and worship as your faith teaches and leave your neighbors alone.

Israel, Go to work, feed and love your family and worship as your faith teaches and leave your neighbors alone.

Sounds SOOOOO easy to say, now if both sides can just do it.

It’s actually not easy–even without the biased news reporters.

And they do want peace. The terms of that peace are pretty much the problem. Israel wants a “secure peace.” They don’t want to have to worry about rocket fire across their borders. I think that’s fair, they shouldn’t have to worry about rocket fire.

So they think that they have the right to blockade Gaza, for instance, limit the amount of food, medicine and fuel which enters, effectively suffocating the people of Gaza, to keep them from firing rockets. That doesn’t make any sense.

Hamas should stop firing rockets. Israel should stop blockading Gaza.

If there is to be any hope of a solution with Israelis and Palestinians living side-by-side, as you say, then the Palestinians need to have rights equal to the Israelis. They need to have the rights to secure their own borders, to protect themselves from invasions by building up a military, to control their own natural resources (like water) and to control their own roads.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I was reading an article yesterday about Iran in which Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying (I’m paraphrasing here): If Germany was responsible for the Holocaust, and if the modern state of Israel was created to attone for that evil, then why should Palestinians or anybody in the Middle East have to pay for it? They weren’t responsible for the genocide of the Jews.

I’m not a big fan of Ahmadinejad or the repressive government which he represents but I thought this was a reasonable point – on the surface of it at least. They feel that Israel was imposed on them by European powers in response to something that happened in Europe.

There’s an interesting video on youtube, an Orthodox Jew on Fox News (w/ Neil Cavuto I think) describing the good relations between Iranian Jews and the Iranian government.

The biggest misunderstanding (and it’s a misunderstanding of Muslims as much as anyone) regarding the Palestinian conflict is the belief that it is a conflict between Jews and Muslims, because of Judaism and/or Islam.

The conflict is between the Israeli government (I won’t even say the Israeli people because I know that many of them are protesting and rallying against the war, that many of them oppose the horribly unjust treatment of the Palestinians including the war and the occupation) and the Palestinian people (the people, I do say, and not Hamas, because it is the people who are suffering and being killed, who are being “punished” for their choice in free elections.)

Again, between the Israeli government, and the Palestinian people.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

More than 800, and I am talking about the Muslims in Gaza only. That is what the thread is about.

No, the thread is about why Muslims are so upset about 800 dead in gaza when they aren’t upset about when muslims kill thousands of other muslims elsewhere.

 

[Sister_Amy]

No, the thread is about why Muslims are so upset about 800 dead in gaza when they aren’t upset about when muslims kill thousands of other muslims elsewhere.

Can you describe for me some instance of “muslims killing thousands of other muslims elsewhere” that Muslims aren’t upset about?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Can you describe for me some instance of “muslims killing thousands of other muslims elsewhere” that Muslims aren’t upset about?

I could, but the fact that Muslims aren’t even aware of them proves my point.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I could, but the fact that Muslims aren’t even aware of them proves my point.

If you don’t, then you’re setting yourself up to be called a liar. Please tell me what you’re talking about because chances are, Muslims are upset. Although, without you giving me any particular examples, I can’t find articles and whatnot to back me up.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

If you don’t, then you’re setting yourself up to be called a liar. Please tell me what you’re talking about because chances are, Muslims are upset. Although, without you giving me any particular examples, I can’t find articles and whatnot to back me up.

Well, Lets look at the news and see what muslims are upset about…

Palestine… what else do you see?

Then I’ll provide the list of muslims killing muslims by the thousands.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Well, Lets look at the news and see what muslims are upset about…

Palestine… what else do you see?

Then I’ll provide the list of muslims killing muslims by the thousands.

I’m waiting for you to go first. Where do you say that “Muslims are killing Muslims by the thousands?” Darfur? Kashmir? Chechnya? Somalia? Afghanistan?

Let’s hear it, please.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I’m waiting for you to go first. Where do you say that “Muslims are killing Muslims by the thousands?” Darfur? Kashmir? Chechnya? Somalia? Afghanistan?

Let’s hear it, please.

If muslims don’t know, and aren’t upset about it, there’s no need for me to answer, because that has already proven the point.

Where are the terrorist attacks and demonstrations over the other situations, if they’re so upset about them?

 

[Alexius]

Admitedly, I am not a fan of Islam (I am Christian afterall), but I have to agree with Sister Amy–the war is less about religion than about politics. There has been many Christians who fought for Palestine over the past few decades. In fact, George Habash, the founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) was Greek Orthodox (He passed away this time last year and received an Orthodox procession). It is certain that several organizations have Islam as their ideology, but I believe that even one who has a bias against Islam can admit that the root of the cause is Palestinian nationalism. To what extent that “root cause” has been expanded is up for debate, but the roots are the life.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Sister_Amy]

If muslims don’t know, and aren’t upset about it, there’s no need for me to answer, because that has already proven the point.

Where are the terrorist attacks and demonstrations over the other situations, if they’re so upset about them?

The only thing you’re proving is that you made a claim you can’t back up.

 

[Alexius]

Simply put: Some Muslims kill other Muslims. Don’t allow this to be the litmus test for truth, however. Many of those Muslims are about as Islamic as Milosevic was Orthodox. When rejecting a religion, be careful not to reject all who practice it–that’s all.

 

[jakasaki]

The only thing you’re proving is that you made a claim you can’t back up.

Surely Amy, you must be aware of the Shia-Sunni violence against each other over at Pakistan and Iraq. They’ve always hated each other for centuries.

That is muslim on muslim violence and although I don’t know the “numbers in death toll”, I know it’s high in the hundreds.

And also you cannot ignore the muslim on muslim violence the Taliban is doing in Pakistan nowadays.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Surely Amy, you must be aware of the Shia-Sunni violence against each other over at Pakistan and Iraq. They’ve always hated each other for centuries.

That is muslim on muslim violence and although I don’t know the “numbers in death toll”, I know it’s high in the hundreds.

And also you cannot ignore the muslim on muslim violence the Taliban is doing in Pakistan nowadays.

I have heard an interesting hadith, some of Muhammad’s companions questioning him, and he told them that the Muslims (of later generations) would not be safe from violence amongst themselves. It’s a sad fact. I wish I knew the entire text of it to share but I don’t, sorry.

Now, the poster made a specific claim, that Muslims are killing Muslims in thousands somewhere, and that Muslims aren’t upset about it. He hasn’t backed that up.

Violence from groups like that Taliban does not go unnoticed by Muslims, and neither does violence in Afghanistan from US troops. Shi’a-Sunni violence be it in Iraq (which is a complete and total disaster thanks to a recent invasion) or in Pakistan (where it claims some number of lives every year) also does not escape the notice of Muslims.

But maybe you haven’t noticed that over 800 Muslims in a land with a population of about 1.5 million have been killed in just a few weeks, killed directly by siege, by an invading army. And that’s on top of all who have killed over the last few years due to an illegal blockade, and an occupation.

Muslims, however, don’t control the news networks. I doubt they (that is, the networks) are much interested in Shi’a-Sunni violence unless they can use it as an excuse to go to war.

Anyway, the poster still hasn’t backed up his claim.

 

[jakasaki]

Now, the poster made a specific claim, that Muslims are killing Muslims in thousands somewhere, and that Muslims aren’t upset about it. He hasn’t backed that up.

Violence from groups like that Taliban does not go unnoticed by Muslims, and neither does violence in Afghanistan from US troops. Shi’a-Sunni violence be it in Iraq (which is a complete and total disaster thanks to a recent invasion) or in Pakistan (where it claims some number of lives every year) also does not escape the notice of Muslims.

But maybe you haven’t noticed that over 800 Muslims in a land with a population of about 1.5 million have been killed in just a few weeks, killed directly by siege, by an invading army. And that’s on top of all who have killed over the last few years due to an illegal blockade, and an occupation.

Muslims, however, don’t control the news networks. I doubt they (that is, the networks) are much interested in Shi’a-Sunni violence unless they can use it as an excuse to go to war.

Anyway, the poster still hasn’t backed up his claim.

I can assist in the “1000’s” being killed, but I believe you are going to reject the site. But in the information is there.

2009.01.12 (North Waziristan, Pakistan) - Two brothers are abducted and brutally murdered by Mujahideen.

2009.01.11 (Bajaur, Pakistan) - Religious extremists abduct and then chop the ears off of four private security guards.

2009.01.11 (Swat, Pakistan) - A father and son are among four civilians shot to death by Taliban militants in three attacks.

2009.01.11 (Mosul, Iraq) - Five Iraqis are murdered by Islamic militants in two attacks.

2009.01.11 (Yala, Thailand) - Two Buddhists are among three farmers shot to death by Islamic terrorists.

2009.01.11 (Guriel, Somalia) - al-Shabaab hardline fundamentalists attack a rival group, leaving about thirty people dead.

The above are the recent headlines, but there is a detailed list on “thereligionofpeace.com”

I know you will not visit the site and say it’s anti-islam and you are right. They are monitoring everything islamic terrorists are doing and recording it.

And this link has the listings for 2008:

thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2008.htm

You will **NEVER **find an Islamic site on the internet which is pro-Islam and list these terrorists attacks.

If you count the number dead for 2008, it is in the 1000’s and so are the wounded.

Here is an article from one of your local New York newspapers.

March 8, 2007

IMAGINE the reaction if Western agents slaughtered a hundred Sunni pilgrims on their way to Mecca. The outrage would spark incendiary rhetoric, riots and revenge killings from Peshawar to Paris.

But when Sunni suicide bombers murdered 118 Shia pilgrims (and wounded almost 200 more) on Tuesday, Sunnis around the globe looked away: Shias only count as Muslims when America can be blamed for their suffering.

Many of those Shia victims of religious totalitarianism were traveling on foot to Karbala to honor Mohammed’s grandson Hussein - who was butchered by the founders of Sunni Islam, to whom power was worth more than the Prophet’s family.

The hatred goes deep.

nypost.com/seven/03082007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/killing_muslims_opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.htm?page=0

Best regards and God Bless
Pam
New York

 

[Sister_Amy]

I can assist in the “1000’s” being killed, but I believe you are going to reject the site. But in the information is there.

2009.01.12 (North Waziristan, Pakistan) - Two brothers are abducted and brutally murdered by Mujahideen.

2009.01.11 (Bajaur, Pakistan) - Religious extremists abduct and then chop the ears off of four private security guards.

2009.01.11 (Swat, Pakistan) - A father and son are among four civilians shot to death by Taliban militants in three attacks.

2009.01.11 (Mosul, Iraq) - Five Iraqis are murdered by Islamic militants in two attacks.

2009.01.11 (Yala, Thailand) - Two Buddhists are among three farmers shot to death by Islamic terrorists.

2009.01.11 (Guriel, Somalia) - al-Shabaab hardline fundamentalists attack a rival group, leaving about thirty people dead.

The above are the recent headlines, but there is a detailed list on “thereligionofpeace.com”

I know you will not visit the site and say it’s anti-islam and you are right. They are monitoring everything islamic terrorists are doing and recording it.

And this link has the listings for 2008:

thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2008.htm

You will **NEVER **find an Islamic site on the internet which is pro-Islam and list these terrorists attacks.

If you count the number dead for 2008, it is in the 1000’s and so are the wounded.

Here is an article from one of your local New York newspapers.

Best regards and God Bless
Pam
New York

Nice try, but totally off-base.

The poster said there were places where Muslims were killing other Muslims in the thousands. Trying to go all over the world just to get a number in 1000s, when the victims aren’t even Muslims, pretty much defeats the point. (And yeah I reject the site, but even if the information is valid it doesn’t meet the criteria.)

 

[ricko]

Iraq’s health ministry reported July was the deadliest month for Iraqi casualties since March 2003. The figures provided were 3,438 Iraqis killed – 1,855 of those as a result of sectarian violence and 1,583 from bombings and shootings carried out by insurgents. Some 3,600 were wounded during the same period.
These figures followed a UN estimate of nearly 6,000 Iraqis killed during May and June. The killings in Iraq have been indiscriminate, and the killers are mostly Arabs, belonging to Sunni or Shiite sects. It is noteworthy that Iraqi Kurds, who suffered Saddam’s genocidal violence, are uninvolved in this sectarian savagery.
There has been no organized protest within the Arab-Muslim world or in the West against the daily toll of Iraqi deaths due to this hate-driven insurgency.
Nor is Iraq the only place where Muslim violence against Muslims rages unabated. There is Darfur in Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Algeria until recently, and hotspots in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia and Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.
How, then, might we explain why Muslim deaths seem only to matter to Arabs and Muslims – and to apologists of Arab-Muslim politics in the West – when they occur as a result of conflicts with the U.S. or Israel?
MALAYSIA TODAY

 

[Sister_Amy]

Iraq’s health ministry reported July was the deadliest month for Iraqi casualties since March 2003. The figures provided were 3,438 Iraqis killed – 1,855 of those as a result of sectarian violence and 1,583 from bombings and shootings carried out by insurgents. Some 3,600 were wounded during the same period.
These figures followed a UN estimate of nearly 6,000 Iraqis killed during May and June. The killings in Iraq have been indiscriminate, and the killers are mostly Arabs, belonging to Sunni or Shiite sects. It is noteworthy that Iraqi Kurds, who suffered Saddam’s genocidal violence, are uninvolved in this sectarian savagery.
There has been no organized protest within the Arab-Muslim world or in the West against the daily toll of Iraqi deaths due to this hate-driven insurgency.
Nor is Iraq the only place where Muslim violence against Muslims rages unabated. There is Darfur in Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Algeria until recently, and hotspots in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia and Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.
How, then, might we explain why Muslim deaths seem only to matter to Arabs and Muslims – and to apologists of Arab-Muslim politics in the West – when they occur as a result of conflicts with the U.S. or Israel?
MALAYSIA TODAY

Muslims are certainly not ignoring Darfur, Somalia, Afghanistan or Kashmir.

It’s just interesting that Muslim countries seem to be unstable when they are undergoing invasion/occuption. For instance, Iraq and Afghanisan. The US is at war with these countries. AT WAR. Saying that it’s Muslim-on-Muslim violence is really lame.

 

[MugenOne]

Shia-Sunni violence is not limited to regions or countries. In the middle 80s, Shiite-Sunni violence exploded in the middle of Mecca killing couple hundreds. If their holy place is not immune from sectarian violence, where else is safe? Truly the religion of pieces.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Shia-Sunni violence is not limited to regions or countries. In the middle 80s, Shiite-Sunni violence exploded in the middle of Mecca killing couple hundreds. If their holy place is not immune from sectarian violence, where else is safe? Truly the religion of pieces.

Did you know that in Jerusalem, a Muslim was in charge of holding the keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre because if any Christian group was in charge they would have not let any other group in and taken over.