Panetta to lift ban on women in combat

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Both my husband and I are in the military.

We are the same age but my PT requirements are far easier then his. Put it this way…meeting the bare minimum standards for men is considered “excellent” by female standards.

That alone tells me that females absolutely CANNOT be considered for infantry positions.

If they can be…then ALL females should meet the same requirements as men for PT. If we are considered equal.

Women are not GI Jane. We are not designed for combat.
Men aren’t psychologically able to handle a woman fighting alongside them on the battlefield. Men will do stupid and dangerous things and disobey orders when they see a female in trouble based on human nature and instinct.

Women face an even greater danger in POW camps then men and aren’t designed to handle being a POW.

If you place females in direct combat with men then feelings will arise and relationships will start and women will be in theatre, engaging the enemy, and will be pregnant (I say will because this is a problem that happens ALL THE TIME now) and suddenly an innocent life is in danger as well.

When my husband was deployed, three girls in his unit were sent home due to them finding out they were pregnant. And he was deployed with a services unit.
Really? This is what we want for our military?

It baffles my mind why people want women in the military so badly.
Personally, I think the military should be totally closed to all women.

Yes, I know that woman have played an critical role in every war. They were nurses, surgeons, pilots, drivers, mechanics, cooks, secretaries…you name it and they did it from all wars we have fought in this country. But the second you start making arguments that women should be able to fight in infantry units, or special forces (God forbid)…when they aren’t even expected to meet the standard PT requirements for every branch that the men are expected to meet…then you lose all of your credibility as a solid and feared military.

First things first. Expect all women…across the board…age bracket to age bracket…to meet the exact same PT standards as men.
It will never happen and a vast majority of the woman would not be able to stay in the military.
I would be one of them. Even when I was in the best shape of my life, I could barely meet the minimum standards the males were required of in PT and I was scoring a 96% on my PT tests.
Out of the 40 girls in my flight at basic training…I think only 3 could comfortably meet the male requirements…and more then 3/4s of us were scoring in the high 90%s for PT.

Women are more likely to be raped while in the military and those rapes are more likely to happen during a deployment and be swept under the rug.

Why in the world do we think it’s okay for women to serve in combat positions?

Pregnancy, rape, children being abandoned at home, divorces piling up…it’s not a good thing to deploy women and it’s an even worse thing to allow them to serve in infantry units.
Great post and thank you for the refreshing honesty and wow you even know of what you speak! It certainly validates what I’ve heard from my “adopted” troops over the past few years. My closest friend an AF SSgt told me that many women get pregnant…go figure a bunch of young people in a stressful situation with few other activities…and sadly assault is not that uncommon. They were not allowed to go out of their housing alone at night because of the potential for an attack. Even worse is the image of a female troop being captured and tortured by Islamists. I don’t think they would give an American woman much leeway since they slice up their own women for the most minimal ‘discretions.’ This is a particularly dirty war we’re fighting. It’s not like the Taliban listen to the requirements of the Geneva Convention.

IMO this is another utopian dream by those who think ideology trumps all.

Lisa
 
I am a naval reservist. When I was onboard the Kitty Hawk, we had females getting pregnant intentionally so they didn’t have to go on a long deployment with the ship. I even saw that when I was in Iraq with the Army 1st ID. Back to my old ship, there was even a prostitution ring onboard the Kitty Hawk in 2001 when she was ordered to the Arabian Sea on a 4 month covert mission. Believe me, we had officers and enlisted personnel involved. Females were charging $100 a pop. If it could happen on the water, it could happen on a remote hill top in Afghanistan.

I don’t like this idea of women serving in the frontline at all. For one, most of our wars have been fighting with non-state actors or bearded men on Toyota Hilux pickup trucks. We haven’t faced a real formidable forces like China, Iran, or Russia for awhile now. War with any of these countries will not be pretty.

Yes, women do get raped downrange. If they are smart, they pack their 9 when they use the facility at night.
 
Well… when one of your girls comes back missing her arm and getting overlooked and passed up by young men paying all their attention to those newly arrived Latinas her age, now walking on Miami beach with both their arms and sexy bodies, she can look at her medals. She can take peace and comfort in equality in war. As she sits alone. And that sitting alone turns into years. And those years into more wrinkles on her face.
First of all, I said I DON’T want my girls in combat. Second, that’s just sick…my husband was injured in combat three times his first deployment, two times his second, thankfully none the last two deployments. He has his scars and to me they are beautiful. They show he survived and made it home to us and that’s what counts. He’s getting ready to deploy again. He has lost buddies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and others have lost limbs.

The biggest problem with your post is that my husbsnd is MEXICAN. My daughters are LATINAS. When I met my husband he was a migrant farmer and yes–illegally in the country. My husband didn’t even become a US citizen until after his third deployment. He is not in a combat unit–they are 88M (truckers). Almost half his unit is female, and believe me they DO see combat on convoys. Not as much now, but his first deployment in 2004-2005, Iraq was a truck war. The convoys were attacked on a regular basis. Like I said, it’s bad enough I need to see my husband go to war, and someday possibly my sons. I DON’T want to see my girls go as well. Leave the racism and arrogance out of your posts and read posts instead of just being nasty.

Before I had kids I wanted to go myself. I was a tomboy and thought it was the thing to do. Now that I’m a mother I can tell you it isn’t the same for kids when Dad is gone as it is when Mom is gone.
 
First of all, I said I DON’T want my girls in combat. Second, that’s just sick…my husband was injured in combat three times his first deployment, two times his second, thankfully none the last two deployments. He has his scars and to me they are beautiful. They show he survived and made it home to us and that’s what counts. He’s getting ready to deploy again. He has lost buddies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and others have lost limbs.

The biggest problem with your post is that my husbsnd is MEXICAN. My daughters are LATINAS. When I met my husband he was a migrant farmer and yes–illegally in the country. My husband didn’t even become a US citizen until after his third deployment. He is not in a combat unit–they are 88M (truckers). Almost half his unit is female, and believe me they DO see combat on convoys. Not as much now, but his first deployment in 2004-2005, Iraq was a truck war. The convoys were attacked on a regular basis. Like I said, it’s bad enough I need to see my husband go to war, and someday possibly my sons. I DON’T want to see my girls go as well. Leave the racism and arrogance out of your posts and read posts instead of just being nasty.

Before I had kids I wanted to go myself. I was a tomboy and thought it was the thing to do. Now that I’m a mother I can tell you it isn’t the same for kids when Dad is gone as it is when Mom is gone.
Off topic- If his injuries are due to IEDs make sure he gets his head looked at. We had a guy who had one too many IEDs and ended up with a short term memory problem. Head injuries are dangerous (and if you have been hit with an IED your head has been injured.) Also make sure you learn about PTSD and depression and how to help him with it (this includes getting him to get help with it if he has it).
 
Yes, train future mothers to be hardened by war, no unseen consequences at all.
 
Off topic- If his injuries are due to IEDs make sure he gets his head looked at. We had a guy who had one too many IEDs and ended up with a short term memory problem. Head injuries are dangerous (and if you have been hit with an IED your head has been injured.) Also make sure you learn about PTSD and depression and how to help him with it (this includes getting him to get help with it if he has it).
Thank you–yes, several IED’s, face bashed in twice in wrecks, and was hit in the throat with shrapnel. Also shot in the lower back. Probably more but the Casuality Assistance doesn’t call about everything and he doesn’t always tell me things. I’ll hear from others in his unit mist of the time. He does have TBI but not enough that he can’t serve still. Praise God no signs of PTSD or depression as of yet. But PTSD didn’t manifest itself in my Dad until late in life, long after retirement. So glad my husband doesn’t drink, it seems to be worse in people who do. And I apologize for losing my temper with you. I’m just on edge right now since deployment looks like it will happen less than a month after our baby is born. And it’s a sensitive subject anyway. Once again, I am sorry for blowing my top. HORMONES–another reason women don’t need to be in combat!!!
 
The only combat MOSs I see as being viable for women would be the aviation ones.
Hardly.

What happens when their fighter goes down behind enemy lines?

Suddenly, she is under the exact same infantry expectations of any male soldier.

Female POWs would be subject to all the abuses that men are…then add the much greater and higher possibility of rape and sex trafficking.

And we so want to break down “gender barriers” and give women the chance to fight on the front lines.

It’s sickening.
 
It reminds me of a segment John Stossel did for 20/20 many years ago about women becoming firefighters. In it, they had film of women trying to do some of the labor that comes with the job wearing the heavy gear firemen wear and failing at it. One woman was trying to position a rather large ladder that she couldn’t handle. The ladder was too much for her and she struggled tremendously and if I remember correctly, the ladder started falling to the ground pulling her with it. :o And then afterwards, NOW got real, real upset at ABC for airing this segment and demanded Stossel to be reprimanded . If I’m not mistaken they wanted him fired! :rolleyes: The thing is, my father who was a Baltimore City Firefighter confirmed much of what Stossel was showing.
I actually went through the fire fighter’s exam when I was in my early twenties…and I prepared for it.

It was grueling and I was one of only two females who tried it.

It consisted of 7 obstacles. Five minute stair climb, picking up a full sized ladder and rope pull, using a sledge hammer to push back a wall, dark maze bear crawl, dragging a 150 dummy through a long crawl space, dragging a full size hose though a crawl space, using a pick ax to stimulate pulling down debris from high platform.

All timed and all down back to back from each other and all while wearing a helmet and a 10 pound flak vest.

The 150 dummy drag was the second to last obstacle to finish. I was exhausted and that dummy weighed more then me. I remember taking hold of it to try and run low through the obstacle like the guys were doing but I was literally yanked back by the weight. I had to sit down and inch the dummy through.

By the last obstacle I had to be pulled out by the medic and sat down. I nearly fainted.

I only managed to pass three out of the seven and they were the three easiest obstacles. I did much better then the other girl who was pulled aside after failing the FIRST obstacle.

Not only that but the guys were racing through the course…calling it a “challenge” but finishing with competitive times and only needing some gatorade to recover.

No way could a woman be as an effective firefighter as a man. Some woman could and they do…but they are so few and far between and the requirements do not come anywhere near the requirements that infantry need to meet.
 
originally** posted by kelfa28**
Female POWs would be subject to all the abuses that men are…then add the much greater and higher possibility of rape and sex trafficking.
And that would be the good side. Haven’t people read about what the Viet Cong did during the Vietname War. They skinned captured men at night time so that American combat troops could hear their screams.

When Jessica Lynch got captures in Irag and a few broken bones and probably raped Americans wanted her safe and we sent a unit in to get her out.

We can’t do that for females nor should we. Men have to take the consequences.

And the last thing I want to hear about from the women is how much they suffered. There can be 1000 women in combat and 100,000 men and all we hear about is how much the women gave to their country and every female has her own story. I don’t think I’m alone in not wanting to hear these stories. Just do the job and shut up.

And yes this is about feminism. It is the thing they have wanted to prove they are equal and the same as men but they are not. They never shut their mouths about how much they gave. Men during World War II came home and never ever talked about the war. That is why we admire them. They went on with life as if they hadn’t been brutalized., had children raised families and many carried great baggage from the war which did affect their family but they chose not to discuss and let the next generation go on.

Can’t see women doing this.----
 
I don’t like this idea of women serving in the frontline at all. For one, most of our wars have been fighting with non-state actors or bearded men on Toyota Hilux pickup trucks. We haven’t faced a real formidable forces like China, Iran, or Russia for awhile now. War with any of these countries will not be pretty.

Yes, women do get raped downrange. If they are smart, they pack their 9 when they use the facility at night.
That’s not the female soldier or Marines fault though. But just so it’s known… men get raped in the U.S. military too. In fact, the V.A. claims to treat over 30,000 male veterans compared to 19,000 female veterans for sexual abuse while they were in the military. I’ve been in the V.A. with both male and female victims of sexual abuse.

So, their being raped by U.S. military men is no more their fault than the girls and women victims in the Mai Lai massacre.

Also, and not meant to be aggressive towards you, but with respects to Russia and China I would not worry about the U.S. going to war with them. They have nuclear weapons and as a rule of thumb the U.S. does not fight nations with nukes. Plus, we prefer smaller and weaker countries. Like Cuba.
First of all, I said I DON’T want my girls in combat. Second, that’s just sick…my husband was injured in combat three times his first deployment, two times his second, thankfully none the last two deployments. He has his scars and to me they are beautiful. They show he survived and made it home to us and that’s what counts. He’s getting ready to deploy again. He has lost buddies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and others have lost limbs.
I know what you said. You misunderstood my point and post–which was in agreement of sorts with you.

As a rule of thumb young men are not going to court disfigured and disabled women. Not over young women more aesthetically pleasing. I’m not a politician, I’m not hear to sing the heroics of combat and how all ends well afterwards in poetic prose. Like the effects of heroin addiction I’m here to tell the catastrophe afterwards.

Will some return fine even if disfigured or disabled? Yes. Some women will. Some women in America will strike it rich spending all their rent or mortgage money at the casinos in Las Vegas too.
The biggest problem with your post is that my husbsnd is MEXICAN. My daughters are LATINAS. When I met my husband he was a migrant farmer and yes–illegally in the country. My husband didn’t even become a US citizen until after his third deployment. He is not in a combat unit–they are 88M (truckers). Almost half his unit is female, and believe me they DO see combat on convoys. Not as much now, but his first deployment in 2004-2005, Iraq was a truck war. The convoys were attacked on a regular basis. Like I said, it’s bad enough I need to see my husband go to war, and someday possibly my sons. I DON’T want to see my girls go as well. Leave the racism and arrogance out of your posts and read posts instead of just being nasty.
Before I had kids I wanted to go myself. I was a tomboy and thought it was the thing to do. Now that I’m a mother I can tell you it isn’t the same for kids when Dad is gone as it is when Mom is gone.
My post was not meant to be nasty nor was it meant to be racist.

Look. In combat some young men have their testicles torn off. What 60 year old politician is going to say that? None. My point is to recount (as some returning female veterans have experienced) that young men are very unlikely take to disabled or disfigured female veterans upon their return.

Which seems like nothing to most. But disfigurement and disability can become very mental for many people especially as time goes by.

Perhaps the best way for me to frame this is replace “combat” with “I.V. drug use” and say: I.V. drug use is bad. Horrible. Therefore, I recommend we spread its use to more Americans. If limited to young men lets spread it to young women.

To me that is what’s being essentially suggested by increasing female combat roles.

For my part… and I served in the Gulf during age 19… I wouldn’t mind seeing the minimum age required to join the military raised to about ages 25 or 27. I would also like to see it become a human rights issue to allow people in the military (of any nation on earth) be allowed to quit if they so choose.

At any rate… in a way this is none of my business. It’s probably best just for me to mind my own business and carry on with my own pursuits. Everyone has there own roads to travel down. Some of those roads may be bumpy.

By the way… I am very much a Brazilian-phile. 🙂 And a big fan of the Brazilian female form as captured on the beaches of Rio. Though, Miami is probably just as well too.
 
At any rate… in a way this is none of my business. It’s probably best just for me to mind my own business and carry on with my own pursuits. Everyone has there own roads to travel down. Some of those roads may be bumpy.
^^^

Eh… just for clarity sake. What I meant by “none of my business” was not about your family specifically but about the whole issue and decisions by the U.S. Government and/or military branches to allow women into the infantry.

And anyways… some women may like the infantry when they are in there and excel at it. Similar to men I’m sure you’ll find different personality types among women. Even some that will take enjoyment in bayoneting some crying child while a few of her male comrades stand around laughing.
 
originally posted by TimeEntrance
They have nuclear weapons and as a rule of thumb the U.S. does not fight nations with nukes. Plus, we prefer smaller and weaker countries. Like Cuba
.

What kind of statement is that?. Were Germany, Japan and Italy smaller during 1940’s? We fight people who attach us because we don’t like being attached- no matter what their capabilities, We do try to avoid nuclear war.
 
TimeEntrance, you are correct about male sexual crimes in the military. I was just being a little bias. Male-on-male sexual assault is mostly committed by predatory gay men. This is another issue which is running rampant in the military and mostly being ignored by its top echelon.
 
I actually went through the fire fighter’s exam when I was in my early twenties…and I prepared for it.

It was grueling and I was one of only two females who tried it.

It consisted of 7 obstacles. Five minute stair climb, picking up a full sized ladder and rope pull, using a sledge hammer to push back a wall, dark maze bear crawl, dragging a 150 dummy through a long crawl space, dragging a full size hose though a crawl space, using a pick ax to stimulate pulling down debris from high platform.

All timed and all down back to back from each other and all while wearing a helmet and a 10 pound flak vest.

The 150 dummy drag was the second to last obstacle to finish. I was exhausted and that dummy weighed more then me. I remember taking hold of it to try and run low through the obstacle like the guys were doing but I was literally yanked back by the weight. I had to sit down and inch the dummy through.

By the last obstacle I had to be pulled out by the medic and sat down. I nearly fainted.

I only managed to pass three out of the seven and they were the three easiest obstacles. I did much better then the other girl who was pulled aside after failing the FIRST obstacle.

Not only that but the guys were racing through the course…calling it a “challenge” but finishing with competitive times and only needing some gatorade to recover.

No way could a woman be as an effective firefighter as a man. Some woman could and they do…but they are so few and far between and the requirements do not come anywhere near the requirements that infantry need to meet.
That’s a great post! Your honesty is very, very refreshing to see indeed! I think what troubles me the most about women in combat roles is not only the physical scars they’ll endure, but the mental and emotional scars as well. Look at the men who come back with devastating carnage to their minds that some never recover from. I wonder how a young mother of a child can possibly cope with the responsibilities of motherhood if she is suffering from this carnage to her mind. Just take a look at society today and the family itself. The family unit is already fractured enough. IMO motherhood is far, far more important than some medal earned in some future war.

Peace, Mark
 
.

What kind of statement is that?. Were Germany, Japan and Italy smaller during 1940’s? We fight people who attach us because we don’t like being attached- no matter what their capabilities, We do try to avoid nuclear war.
We didn’t have much choice but to enter WWII. But that is a while ago anyways. I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of that anymore. If it makes you feel any better Russia and China are unlikely to attack the U.S. as well. We have nukes. I think the Chinese are better off harassing the Tibetans.

And the U.S. doesn’t just fight people who attack us. When was the last time some nation attacked the United States? North Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? What’s that little country Noriega was in? Even Afghanistan did not attack us. And 9/11 and Al Qaida could have been handled with Interpol. Al Qaida kills less Americans than the Crips in L.A.

Maybe we wanted to get the Taliban out of power so we could open up more heroin trafficking into the United States… I dunno.

MugenOne, some of them are probably predatory gay men. I’m led to believe many more of them are heterosexual males that just like to express their domination. Maybe.
 
originally posted by TimeEntrance
We didn’t have much choice but to enter WWII. But that is a while ago anyways. I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of that anymore. If it makes you feel any better Russia and China are unlikely to attack the U.S. as well. We have nukes. I think the Chinese are better off harassing the Tibetans.
And the U.S. doesn’t just fight people who attack us. When was the last time some nation attacked the United States? North Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? What’s that little country Noriega was in? Even Afghanistan did not attack us. And 9/11 and Al Qaida could have been handled with Interpol. Al Qaida kills less Americans than the Crips in L.A.
Maybe we wanted to get the Taliban out of power so we could open up more heroin trafficking into the United States.
We always have a choice. We don’t like it when a nation takes out our navy in a surprise attach. We don’t like it when we watch twin towers fall because Al Quida felt like taking them down.

I am not saying we don’t get involved in wars like North Korea or Vietnam but to say we only attach smaller nations like Cuba is a terrible statement. Y\

It doesn’t matter that Crips kill more Americans - so do car accidents. It’s that we don’t like having innocent civilian people going to work killed in mass numbers.

Anyhow - off subject of thread.
 
We didn’t have much choice but to enter WWII. But that is a while ago anyways. I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of that anymore. If it makes you feel any better Russia and China are unlikely to attack the U.S. as well. We have nukes. I think the Chinese are better off harassing the Tibetans.

And the U.S. doesn’t just fight people who attack us. When was the last time some nation attacked the United States? North Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? What’s that little country Noriega was in? Even Afghanistan did not attack us. And 9/11 and Al Qaida could have been handled with Interpol. Al Qaida kills less Americans than the Crips in L.A.

Maybe we wanted to get the Taliban out of power so we could open up more heroin trafficking into the United States… I dunno.

MugenOne, some of them are probably predatory gay men. I’m led to believe many more of them are heterosexual males that just like to express their domination. Maybe.
The attacks were based out of Afghanistan. We were also doing the Interpol/law enforcement way before 9/11. Didn’t work too good.
 
That’s a great post! Your honesty is very, very refreshing to see indeed! I think what troubles me the most about women in combat roles is not only the physical scars they’ll endure, but the mental and emotional scars as well. Look at the men who come back with devastating carnage to their minds that some never recover from. I wonder how a young mother of a child can possibly cope with the responsibilities of motherhood if she is suffering from this carnage to her mind. Just take a look at society today and the family itself. The family unit is already fractured enough. IMO motherhood is far, far more important than some medal earned in some future war.

Peace, Mark
I also know of the devastating emotional consequences of women deployed even in relatively safe positions, particularly when leaving babies or even teenagers behind. It is only fair that women be deployed if they are in the military. But imagine a woman leaving a baby to go into a combat role…yikes!

I just heard a letter written by a Marine who was deployed during Iraq. He spoke of not only the physical hardship but graphic details about some of the hygiene and health issues when in combat (I noted this earlier but none of the GI Jane supporters responded…hmmmm) He mentioned how dysentery had gone through their unit and because of the heavy gear and protective clothing they had to defecate into empty MRE containers within a few feet of their fellow Marines. Further when arriving back at base they were immediately stripped, their clothing taken by a HazMat type team and burned as they stood there naked being hosed off with a pressure washer. What a great experience for our female troops…total bonding over a feces filled fire.

Will sanity ever prevail? This administration lives in an alternative universe.

Lisa
 
I also know of the devastating emotional consequences of women deployed even in relatively safe positions, particularly when leaving babies or even teenagers behind. It is only fair that women be deployed if they are in the military. But imagine a woman leaving a baby to go into a combat role…yikes!

I just heard a letter written by a Marine who was deployed during Iraq. He spoke of not only the physical hardship but graphic details about some of the hygiene and health issues when in combat (I noted this earlier but none of the GI Jane supporters responded…hmmmm) He mentioned how dysentery had gone through their unit and because of the heavy gear and protective clothing they had to defecate into empty MRE containers within a few feet of their fellow Marines. Further when arriving back at base they were immediately stripped, their clothing taken by a HazMat type team and burned as they stood there naked being hosed off with a pressure washer. What a great experience for our female troops…total bonding over a feces filled fire.

Will sanity ever prevail? This administration lives in an alternative universe.

Lisa
So … only men should suffer the emotional scars of combat? Women are to fragile? Using those arguments I could make an argument to deny women the right to vote, drive a car etc. As for the incident you mention, the men endure the same treatment why is that acceptable for a man not a woman?

As for the GI Jane supporter comment, call me what you will, but when I served in the US military there were plenty of women working in supply I would have prefered to be covering my back than many of the men.
 
So … only men should suffer the emotional scars of combat? Women are to fragile? Using those arguments I could make an argument to deny women the right to vote, drive a car etc. As for the incident you mention, the men endure the same treatment why is that acceptable for a man not a woman?

As for the GI Jane supporter comment, call me what you will, but when I served in the US military there were plenty of women working in supply I would have prefered to be covering my back than many of the men.
What baloney. As I pointed women ALREADY suffer the emotional and physical scars of combat. I have spoken to them, visited them in the hospital, helped a troop support organization provide technology to allow them to function better with these injuires.

So the reality that women are already suffering means we should ADD to the suffering, add to the cost, add to the potential problems of accommodating them (btw it’s VERY hard for women to get necessary female hygiene supplies at some installations. I guess the gunny will need to add boxes of Tampax to the supply list) and most important put the male troops at greater risk?

All of this to what end? Because some women WANT to enter combat? I bet there are some women who’d love to play for the NFL but I suspect the consequences will be detrimental to the league and to the women…

It’s so funny that the entire Leftist philosophy is for self fulfillment, self gratification rather than self sacrifice. There is no good reason to put women into combat but like gay marriage, like abortion…if someone WANTS it, that’s good enough for the Left.

Lisa
 
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