Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

[aimee]

oh my the music

some of course was beautiful…but so…mixed up

 

[peacelight]

Yes…I saw your post…thank you. It is disgusting to see such slander, anger and misinformation spewed.

You are welcome. Everytime I read negative stuff and lies about the Catholic Church make me cry, said to myself I wish that they see and hear what I see what I hear and what and how I feel about Catholic Church, Catholic Faith, the history etc. This is my last post for now just want to let you all know that I love all of you though we have different view on the music at the MASS today but that won’t stop me from loving you all. Please forgive me if I hurt you all feeling. God bless one and all I ask this in Jesus name Amen!

 

[wnt2bHis]

Thanks MrS…I found the 2003 GIRM on the USSB website. Thanks. Applause maybe inappropriate but unavoidable in a setting of 50,000. I’m watching the recast now. Seems appropriate. The audio quality questionable and may be altering our experience.

1. The celebration of the Eucharist in a particular Church is of utmost importance.

The Bishop should therefore be determined that the priests, the deacons, and the lay Christian faithful grasp ever more deeply the genuine meaning of the rites and liturgical texts and thereby be
led to an active and fruitful celebration of the Eucharist. To the same end, he should also be vigilant that the dignity of these celebrations be enhanced. In promoting this dignity, the beauty of the sacred place, of music, and of art should contribute as greatly as possible.

1. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.50
   Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially
   the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies.51
2. While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy
   of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.74 If, however, there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion chant should be ended in a timely manner. Care should be taken that singers, too, can receive Communion with ease.
3. In the dioceses of the United States of America there are four options for the Communion chant: (1) the antiphon from the Roman Missal or the Psalm from the Roman Gradual as set to
   music there or in another musical setting; (2) the seasonal antiphon and Psalm of the Simple Gradual; (3) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) a suitable liturgical song chosen in accordance with no. 86 above. This is sung either by the choir alone or by the choir or cantor with the people.

 

[stbruno]

the multicultural flavor of the music I thought was fine. The only song that struck me funny and I am fairly tone deaf…was the responsorial psalm…Lord Send out your spirit…The words of the psalm-song are incredibly beautiful and moving, but the harmony used seemed like I was watching a spooky movie? As if the tones were off key. Just my thought. Otherwise, the spirit of the mass was beautiful, just beautiful and moving. I watched it online using the uspapalvisit.org website and the priest who was doing the explanation was very prayerful. Especially when they recited a prayer for reception of spiritual communion because we who were not physically present could not receive the actual body, we could receive the spiritual presence of the Lord. That to me, overpowered any discordance in the psalm song. If I had to rate the mass on a scale of 10…it would be an 11!

 

[Writer]

I just watched the papal mass in Washington and I was astonished by three things: first, the mass itself. If I had been present, I would have left in tears. It was horrible. The second astonishing thing was the frankness of EWTN’s commentary, for example, the use by one commentator of the words “complete deviation from everything Benedict has written about for the last thirty years.” No mincing. The third astonishing thing was the glance given his Holy Father by the priest on his right (it may be his new master of ceremonies but I’ve never seen a picture and don’t know) when the Kyrie began. It told everything. I mourned throughout the rest of mass for this public humiliation of His Holiness.

I cannot help but think that if Benedict was wavering, hoping that the reform of the reform would happen by itself, by good example, he will now become a liturgical maoist, “where the broom does not reach, the dust does not vanish by itself.”

I hope everyone connected with the planning of this liturgy is rebuked.

We only could catch snatches of the Mass while I was trying to get ready for work, but what we heard also struck an odd note with us. Good job to EWTN saying it as it is. Perhaps Pope Benedict will be struck by the music problems we’re having in the US…and do something to address the situation. My wife said his homily was amazing, so at least that’s good to hear.

 

[wisdom_3_5]

Horrible music for the most part. I think the worst was the psalm setting. The Offetory was interesting, but not appropriate for Mass. I didn’t hear anything else, couldn’t stand it.

Well, at least there were no liturgical dancers . . . were there?

 

[Brownginger]

It doesn’t seems right to me BrownGinger. We should not persecute the Church just because the music is wrong and not what we want to hear and that stop you from going to MASS. Same goes with the sex abuse and this make some Catholic walk away from the Church. Jesus did not promise happy peaceful church instead He knows there will bad apples in the Church. We are all sinners. Do not take this reason for not attending MASS because Church always sinless but we are Her members that sin again and again and rebel against her.

By not going and those who ashame in going to MASS because of one of these reason is just like putting our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross again. We should not punished the Church.

I said that sometimes I cannot bring myself to go to SUNDAY Mass – I always attend Mass each week. I just did not want to let it seem as though I equate the two. It is imperative that we attend Sunday Mass. I have asked my Confessor and he told me that if I feel unable to attend, it is permissible to attend another day.

My belief is that I cannot in good conscience be present when we are asked to sing the music of another denomination. That is making the words of evangelicals, e.g., part of the Mass. It is the same as if the Church substituted the words of Martin Luther for those of the official prayers of the Mass. That would be unthinkable. But we are doing the same thing when we sing his songs and the songs of the ministers and members of the other denominations. I don’t feel so desperately about singing the songs of other Catholic cultures as I do about singing the music of other denominations, especially those who refute the basic tenets of the Catholic Faith and who vocally profess to hate Catholicism.

 

[janet_baker76]

MrS…please illustrate your point so that I may see more clearly then. I’m not clear given the highlighting of a few words in the context of the entire paragraph.

In complete charity.

Perhaps this poster is not familiar with more traditional liturgy and hasn’t any frame of reference to temper the judgement that the papal liturgy today merely complies with Church teaching. The aculturation denoted in the teaching was satisfied by a hymn with the stamp of the culture at the end of mass. Here is where one might hear (still hear, in traditional liturgy communities) the hint of the mariachi, the drawl of the Louisianan, especially in hymns to Our Lady. The rest of the hymns were either Latin, very old hymns which had lost whatever cultural identification they might have originally had, or a ‘higher art’ than the hymns that might be sung at the end of mass, during the recessional.

But it’s harder to understand how the poster can’t see the mass today as a ‘production number’ rather than the quiet, intense experience of good liturgy, where the high point is not the high note of the singer, but the priest’s ‘The Lord be With You.’ B16’s liturgy was almost lost, completely upstaged in the tumulting performers and the competing drum lines.

Maybe it’s more insufferable, after our seasons of American Idol, but one really winces (someone said they vomited, and I can believe it) to see mass presented that way. And there were unmistakable political overtones, too. The assignment of the first reading about the gift of tongues to the Spanish speaking woman, who read it in Spanish and ended her reading with a toss of the head and a rendering of “Pallabra de Dios” straight out of a rally supporting Spanish as an official US language. It was self-conscious enough, I would say. And it just can’t be without polical overtones, which that Spanish-speaking woman reader is not responsible for–although the person who chose her for that role is, for using her.

The poster could well say that the Holy Father supports inculturation, because he does. But he doesn’t define it with what we saw today. Today was the ‘espectacular’ that he rejects. It is not condusive to prayer. It does not put the attention on God, it puts it on a performer. It teaches the Church is just a big show, even to people who clapped along.

It was a good suggestion to recommend Ratzinger’s The Spirit of the Liturgy, for a start.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’m sorry to be coming back for more…

I might argue that 15th century hymns are not representative of our customs and culture. We were not celebrating Mass in a Cathedral in Europe but rather a baseball park in New York!

According to the revelations in Vatican II, the lay people are the Church. In this case the style of music in this case expresses the lives of the people, the Church of the United States.

In my opinion, if you are concerned about the music, you missed the wonderful celebration of communion shared between 50,000 people.

IHS, Respectfully.

Although I agree with Ana about the music, I wish we would stop picking apart everything we disagree with. The mass was beautiful, and the Pope did not seem offended.

It is difficult to be quiet and reverend in a baseball stadium filled with 46,000 people.

Maybe the Mass should have been held at the National Shrine, and the number of people limited.

 

[peacelight]

I said that sometimes I cannot bring myself to go to SUNDAY Mass – I always attend Mass each week. I just did not want to let it seem as though I equate the two. It is imperative that we attend Sunday Mass. I have asked my Confessor and he told me that if I feel unable to attend, it is permissible to attend another day.

My belief is that I cannot in good conscience be present when we are asked to sing the music of another denomination. That is making the words of evangelicals, e.g., part of the Mass. It is the same as if the Church substituted the words of Martin Luther for those of the official prayers of the Mass. That would be unthinkable. But we are doing the same thing when we sing his songs and the songs of the ministers and members of the other denominations. I don’t feel so desperately about singing the songs of other Catholic cultures as I do about singing the music of other denominations, especially those who refute the basic tenets of the Catholic Faith and who vocally profess to hate Catholicism.

I am sorry I misunderstood you. I know how you feel. You know as for me I look at it this way. As long as the words is not against the teaching of the Church and it is all about praising God it is fine with me. But so far in my Church I don’t recall any songs that against the Church or anything that from other denominations. You know come to think of it never came across my mind about what songs normally other denominations sings during their services. I need to look into that so next time I know. I definitely not going to go for songs that teaching hatred and anti Catholic.

 

[pro_organo]

When Placido Domingo was singing, the Pope’s body-language changed noticeably, and he seemed to relax. Even the twinkle in his eye returned. Pope Benedict is something of a musician himself. I don’t think people untrained in music realize how painful listening to bad music–inappropriate, vulgarly-arranged, badly performed, or just incompetently composed–can be for a musician. There was a lot of that today.

 

[wnt2bHis]

janet_baker: You assume that I have never experienced a traditional liturgy. In fact, I endured many of them as a young child attending Catholic grade school. I learned from that experience never to judge the quality of the liturgy or the Eucharist by the tone of the music and to focus on the experience of being in the presence of Jesus where nothing else matters…especially the music.

In terms of judging today’s “production” as legitimate, offensive or otherwise is to overlook the beauty of witnessing such a glorious gathering of the Body of Christ.

I find the condescending tone of your post judgemental and hurtful not only to me but to those who might have actually been inspired by today’s liturgy.

God Bless You.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Horrible music for the most part. I think the worst was the psalm setting. The Offetory was interesting, but not appropriate for Mass. I didn’t hear anything else, couldn’t stand it.

Well, at least there were no liturgical dancers . . . were there?

Yes, I was surprised by the Psalm as well. The refrain was overly complicated and difficult for a lay person to repeat. The psalms are much easier to understand and repeat when done in chant-like style.

 

[anamchara]

There was not a SINGLE abuse at that liturgy…name one

Thank you!! I was going to ask the same thing!

 

[peacelight]

This was downright embarrassing…the “mult-cultural” junk has NO PLACE in Mass.

The one great thing about the Catholic Mass is that we are all supposed to find that common link…that we are all a part of the ONE BODY of Christ…period! Meaning…all masses the world over should appear the same…I should be able to walk into ANY church around the world and find myself at home…not totally confused!

I have the tape on now…and I am so disgusted watching this vulgar display…there’s no reverence given. This is a circus…I hope Pope Benedict goes home and BLASTS the US Bishops who put on this nauseating display.

In the meantime…there are some very bad news articles and websites making ridiculous claims and Catholics should be ready to stand up and refute the accusations and disgusting comments being made about the Holy Father and the entire Cathoic Church.

I am sorry neat62. What you said is quite offensive. But that is okay. You see I am not from US but I live here for almost 11 years. And believe me it was very foreign for me to step in English speaking Catholic Church because I am used with my native language back home and we do every now and then using English language during MASS singing in English and we did not complaint about it because when come to Church matter everything is lead by the Holy Spirit that is what I always believe. And today MASS the chosen of the songs I do believe was lead by the Holy Spirit too because there is nothing that against God, all songs all about Praising God whether the tune the sound terrible that did not take away the spirit of the song the meaning of the songs. We are not perfect. So here in the State did the English language stop me from praising God and going to his Church NO absolutely not because I go to Church to worship him not to worship the sound of the music. You know when other Catholic around the world saw what happen today they will be amazed how different culture combine and unite together though different tune of songs but the same message it is all about Praising the one true God. Jesus Christ our Lord. If I were back in my country right now I would be amazed too. I truly see true love of Christ today.

 

[Brownginger]

Peacelight – Most of the hymnals in our parish churches have been (mistakenly, at times) approved by the Bishops and usually contain nothing that would be against Church doctrine. However, some of the hymns were written by those whose tenets were written by those who hate(d) Catholicism. Even beautiful music, even beautiful Christian thoughts and prayers, may be totally inappropriate for the Mass.

We may love to sing the songs of worship heard on the radio and in the giant churches where the congregations swing and sway; but if the music is not Mass-centered – if it was not composed specifically for liturgical celebrations – and especially if it was composed by a non-Catholic, it has lost all authenticity for use at Mass. The Mass is a cohesion of spoken prayer, sung prayer, readings, and actions by the priest and those by the people. Sentimental songs written by a deacon of the denomination in Wales, for instance, do not belong to the cohesion. (By the way, just look for the line at the bottom of the song to see who wrote the words. Then look up that person on the internet to find out his denomination, etc.)

 

[EddieArent]

Not only the music, but pro-abortion politicians recieved Communion! It’s time for the hierarchy, from the Holy Father to the parish priest to stop acting “buddy buddy” and grandpa like and use their proper authority to do what is right for these politician’s souls and stop this grave standal within the Church.

 

[peacelight]

Peacelight – Most of the hymnals in our parish churches have been (mistakenly, at times) approved by the Bishops and usually contain nothing that would be against Church doctrine. However, some of the hymns were written by those whose tenets were written by those who hate(d) Catholicism. Even beautiful music, even beautiful Christian thoughts and prayers, may be totally inappropriate for the Mass.

We may love to sing the songs of worship heard on the radio and in the giant churches where the congregations swing and sway; but if the music is not Mass-centered – if it was not composed specifically for liturgical celebrations – and especially if it was composed by a non-Catholic, it has lost all authenticity for use at Mass. The Mass is a cohesion of spoken prayer, sung prayer, readings, and actions by the priest and those by the people. Sentimental songs written by a deacon of the denomination in Wales, for instance, do not belong to the cohesion. (By the way, just look for the line at the bottom of the song to see who wrote the words. Then look up that person on the internet to find out his denomination, etc.)

Thank you I will do that. I use to do that when I try to find article about faith on the net, if not Catholic writer I used to leave it alone because I know it is not the whole truth.

 

[wnt2bHis]

Not only the music, but pro-abortion politicians recieved Communion! It’s time for the hierarchy, from the Holy Father to the parish priest to stop acting “buddy buddy” and grandpa like and use their proper authority to do what is right for these politician’s souls and stop this grave standal within the Church.

And you would propose this at Mass with 50,000 people? So my fellow followers of Jesus…what is appropriate? Perhaps I should post that in another thread. Oh my the subjects we are touching on today.

God Bless us.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Can none of you for one minute think about what we witnessed today!? The Holy Father was in our presence celebrating the Sacred Liturgy! Nothing is EVER good enough for some folks here. Can we not be grateful for what we witnessed!?

Was the music amazing? No.
Was God with us? Yes.

Many of us will never see this again, and will never again be part of something so awe inspiring.