Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

[Cobbfmly]

I tuned in during the consecration. When communion started, I was taken aback by the music. Then I opened my heart to what the Holy Spirit was saying through the music. At this point a song that we sing frequently during our masses (don’t remember which other than it is a combination of Latin and English) and I was able to sing with it. It was at this point that I realized that the Holy Spirit was showing American Catholics the many ways that American Catholics worship God through music. To those of us that are not used to a style of music, it does not “feel” sacred, but to the people that are used to the style, it does “feel” sacred.

God created different languages to keep man from building a tower to reach him. From these different languages different cultures arised. From each culture one or more styles of music arised. Today, the Catholics in a country that descendants of many of the languages arising from the Tower of Babel live in came together to worship God using several music styles that God had a hand in creating.

Now what really bothered me is the clapping during mass. During mass our hands belong in a position of prayer not being slapped together.

 

[Ana]

"At one point I felt the Holy Father had been kidnapped by the Democratic Party and he might any minute jump up and run out! He honestly looked as if he might, couple of times. He looked like a man who’d been shangehied and knew it.

I

LoL … I thought that too. He looked soooo uncomfortable.

 

[Aragorn1]

Before you bash the Holy Father and the hierarchy you might want to take notice that this was a story before the Mass. Some pro-aborts expressed their wish to receive Communion the next day (this was yesterday), but it is not certain how successful they were. To my knowledge there’s no evidence that any of these people received. Who knows, maybe the Pope and his assistant priests stood up to the pro-aborts and refused the Communion. Better to give them the benefit of the doubt than to bash them, IMHO.

Guess I was wrong. Sorry.

However, it is clear the Pope had nothing to do with it.

 

[janet_baker76]

Again, I’m still looking for someone to find a rubrical abuse that occurred during today’s mass. Not something that you don’t agree with the bishops on…an actual abuse.

Okay, below article 57 from Redemptionis Sacramentum, which define liturgical abuse:

ttp://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

57.] It is the right of the community of Christ’s faithful that especially in the Sunday celebration there should customarily be true and suitable sacred music

Or another source, from then Cardinal Ratzinger but I believe there has been a new music rubric released which reflects his wishes in the matter:

adoremus.org/0408SacredMusic.html

For it is forgotten that the liturgy is to be the opus Dei in which God Himself acts first and we are redeemed precisely through the fact that He acts. The group celebrates itself and in doing so celebrates nothing at all. For it is no cause for celebration. That is why the general activity becomes boredom. Nothing happens when He whom the whole world awaits is absent.

And again from Cardinal Ratzinger which is really on the point:

There is agitation music which animates man for different collective purposes. There is sensual music which leads man into the erotic or essentially aims in other ways at sensual feelings of pleasure. There is light music which does not wish to say anything but only to break up the burden of silence. There is rationalistic music in which the tones serve only rational constructions but in which no real penetration of spirit and sensibility results. One would have to include many sterile catechism songs and modern hymns constructed under commission here.

The music that corresponds to the liturgy of the incarnate Christ raised up on the cross lives from another, greater and broader synthesis of spirit, intuition, and sensuous sound. One can say that Western music, from Gregorian chant through the cathedral music and the great polyphony, through the renaissance and baroque music up until Bruckner and beyond, has come from the inner wealth of this synthesis and developed it in the fullness of its possibilities.

Posters who have indicated at the least the planners of the liturgy might have read the Holy Father and realized at least the inhospitality of their production are – kind.

 

[janet_baker76]

" I know these huge outdoor Masses give a lot of people a chance to attend Mass with our Holy Father, but I personally detest them. "

I attended one outside of Puerto Vallarta in a much-used bull fighting ring. The manure and blood had not been entirely cleaned from the sawdust. I thought it was another way to make sure we didn’t dare to kneel. There are very few entrances to the bull ring from the stands–I guess because a bull might get out that way–and I kid you not, young priests and lay eucharistic ministers were tossing the Eucharist from their place in the ring up to the people in the stands. There was about a foot gap.

I’m trying to write a short story about this experience but it was so disturbing I haven’t been able to. The people were eating and drinking before mass and naturally it continued during mass. Cell phones and haltar tops. A guy smoked behind me. No way to kneel. A storm blew up and people got the strangest things to cover their heads–garbage lids and pieces of rotten plastic and car window sun shades. The bishop gave a sermon on the greatness of Vatican II, as one by one everybody slipped out, until he was almost alone. And me.

After B16 was elected, there was some talk that the Church was going to discourage these big open-air events just for the abuses, but look now . . .

I would like to say, by the way, since I’m off topic anyway, I am sorry for being strident and harsh in a couple of posts here. I go to traditional mass, because I suffer from Post Traumatic Mass Syndrome, and it sets me off, upset and mad, so I have to avoid it. But yesterday the whole thing surrounding the Holy Father was as it should have been, really good, and I was in a prayerful state of mind this morning, even though watching it on tv, and I’m telling you, it was a low blow. I expected a mass such as the man writing ‘Sacred Music’ would have liked and you know how a sucker punch gets you.

 

[Nan_S]

Well, we’re not alone. Even the news media noticed. I just spotted this on a news website. I hope the copy-n-paste works.

April 17: Lila Herndon, 5, tries to make her sister Hannah Herndon, 3, smile as a choir practices on stage in the background in the early morning, prior to the Papal Mass with Pope Benedict XVI at Nationals baseball Park in Washington.

 

[neat62]

I am sorry neat62. What you said is quite offensive. But that is okay. You see I am not from US but I live here for almost 11 years. And believe me it was very foreign for me to step in English speaking Catholic Church because I am used with my native language back home and we do every now and then using English language during MASS singing in English and we did not complaint about it because when come to Church matter everything is lead by the Holy Spirit that is what I always believe. And today MASS the chosen of the songs I do believe was lead by the Holy Spirit too because there is nothing that against God, all songs all about Praising God whether the tune the sound terrible that did not take away the spirit of the song the meaning of the songs. We are not perfect. So here in the State did the English language stop me from praising God and going to his Church NO absolutely not because I go to Church to worship him not to worship the sound of the music. You know when other Catholic around the world saw what happen today they will be amazed how different culture combine and unite together though different tune of songs but the same message it is all about Praising the one true God. Jesus Christ our Lord. If I were back in my country right now I would be amazed too. I truly see true love of Christ today.

Hi peace…well see, that’s my whole point…if the Mass was celebrated in the traditional Latin, throughout the world, it would be the same all over and frankly, it would be far more reverant and beautiful. Instead, what we see is that each “culture” makes their own rules and celebrates in their own fashion, losing the original beauty and again, causing confusion!

I should be able to walk into a Mass anywhere in the world at anytime and be able to clearly understand what is going on and what is being said. We should not be exposed to local tradtions…as we are ONE BODY in Christ…not many parts with our own identities and ideas of what the Mass should consist of.

Jesus Christ laid out the Mass in detail for us…I don’t believe we have the right to change it to conform to our modern cultural desires.

 

[Cobbfmly]

…
Jesus Christ laid out the Mass in detail for us…I don’t believe we have the right to change it to conform to our modern cultural desires.

The Romans changed it to conform to their language. If we did Mass as Jesus laid it out it would be in Aramaic (sp?) and/or Hebrew.

 

[Cobbfmly]

…Jesus Christ laid out the Mass in detail for us…I don’t believe we have the right to change it to conform to our modern cultural desires.

What about the Eastern Rites? They are not doing the Mass in traditional Latin. Are they not doing the Mass as Jesus laid out? Over the time I have been reading posts on these forums I have found many people in the Latin Rite to be very unaware that the Latin rite way of worshiping is not the only way that Catholics worship. The many ways Catholics worship is a testimony to the Holy Spirit guiding the Apostles to be linguistically and culturally sensitive. This guidance continues with VII calling for the use of language of the people at Mass.

 

[bcuster]

I have been to several beautiful multicultural Masses here in the Pacific Northwest. The many languages of our Catholic people here were used in prayer and song. I am even comfortable with different styles of music having grown up with Weston Priory, St. Louis Jesuits, John Michael Talbot, etc.

The music today was multicultural; however I am sure each culture has more reverant music. For example, there are beautiful liturgical songs in Spanish like Pan de Vida. Salsa or Mariachi style music not so reverant.

I think in the effort to showcase our various cultures, the overall unity of the Mass and the Church was lost. Besides: Mass is not the appropriate place to showcase anything.

I give two thumbs up for the Holy Father and the Mass. And two thumbs down for the music.:tsktsk:

 

[neat62]

The Romans changed it to conform to their language. If we did Mass as Jesus laid it out it would be in Aramaic (sp?) and/or Hebrew.

Sure…but Aramaic is a dead language and the once openly accepted Latin became the traditional norm until we allowed liberalism to creep in…adding their “inclusiveness” and “multi-culturalism” and where has it gotten us?

bloodtoiltearsandsweat.blogspot.com/

 

[neat62]

What about the Eastern Rites? They are not doing the Mass in traditional Latin. Are they not doing the Mass as Jesus laid out? Over the time I have been reading posts on these forums I have found many people in the Latin Rite to be very unaware that the Latin rite way of worshiping is not the only way that Catholics worship. The many ways Catholics worship is a testimony to the Holy Spirit guiding the Apostles to be linguistically and culturally sensitive. This guidance continues with VII calling for the use of language of the people at Mass.

Yes, but we are not witnessing a celebration of the Eastern Rites…the Mass should be celebrated as it is EVERYDAY at the Vatican - none of this liberal nonesense…after all…it hasn’t gotten us anywhere has it?

bloodtoiltearsandsweat.blogspot.com/

 

[Pange_Lingua]

Sadly I was so taken aback at the bad music at the DC Papal Mass today I went to my computer to investigate (ok complain) and a quick ‘google’ brought me to this site. I too appreciate the challenges with large outdoor masses, but I just felt today’s music was one the all time worst. Perhaps one of the preceding comments hits the issue accurately. The music was trying to be too much and instead achieved something much less. The music seemed to me to have the direction or a point of view of ‘show’ or performance music: the frequent startling harmonies in every genre, aggressive tempos, loud and louder volumes, hints at ancient chants and texts without respecting the reverent traditions they evoke in many, and especially the lack of symmetry within the context of this Mass. Every song was a stand alone performance and usually pretty bizarre at that. Not unlike the leaping remarks on EWTN attempting to call this plurality?? -from a commentator based in Rome –KYRIELEIS.

I was so grateful and happy at the end to hear Placido singing “Panis Angelicus”. Not exactly a pinnacle of great liturgical music, but nonetheless a welcome respite and sung so beautifully with prayerfully respectful.

I remember reading at school (was it Fr. Dulles) trying to fix the liturgy implies that there is something wrong. I suggest we would be much better off embracing our liturgy rather than attempting to craft into something else, something that we have oddly come to believe it needs.

 

[Ana]

I wasn’t so much dissappointed in the muticulural aspect of the music, I like different languages. But last I checked, isn’t the official language of the United States ENGLISH?

Also, the music during Communion, regardless of how beautiful or unbeautiful it is on it’s own, was simply innapropriate for Communion.

Do we play “we will rock you” at a Wedding? Or a ballad at the beginning of a football game? The music during Communion should encourage and invite prayer and meditation, not a boogiefest. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[mom_of_ten]

Thank you!! I was going to ask the same thing!

Again, I ask…isn’t adding made up words to the KYRIE and making a “song” out of it, an abuse to the rubrics? They added so many words that my children did not even realize it WAS the Kyrie.

 

[Godi]

LoL … I thought that too. He looked soooo uncomfortable.

Who is responsible for this debacle?

 

[mom_of_ten]

I tuned in during the consecration. When communion started, I was taken aback by the music. Then I opened my heart to what the Holy Spirit was saying through the music. At this point a song that we sing frequently during our masses (don’t remember which other than it is a combination of Latin and English) and I was able to sing with it. It was at this point that I realized that the Holy Spirit was showing American Catholics the many ways that American Catholics worship God through music. To those of us that are not used to a style of music, it does not “feel” sacred, but to the people that are used to the style, it does “feel” sacred.

God created different languages to keep man from building a tower to reach him. From these different languages different cultures arised. From each culture one or more styles of music arised. Today, the Catholics in a country that descendants of many of the languages arising from the Tower of Babel live in came together to worship God using several music styles that God had a hand in creating.

Now what really bothered me is the clapping during mass. During mass our hands belong in a position of prayer not being slapped together.

Please consider, that the Holy Father (who is the voice of the Holy Spirit in our lives) has ADAMANTLY and REPEATEDLY CONDEMNED MOST of the music AND instruments that were used to play the music at the Mass in DC…are you suggesting that the Holy Father is at odds with the Holy Spirit as to what type of music should be used in Liturgy?..Also, if you say that the Holy Spirit inspired that music; and we just aren’t used to it…then why didn’t the Holy Spirit also inspire the clapping?

My only hope is that the Holy Spirit will USE todays vulgar insults to inspire His Vicar to bring the hammer down on the US Liturgies.

I encourage those who have the tape…to view it with eyes closed…and as each individual piece of “music” is played (performed is more like it), see if it draws your mind, heart, and thoughts to the EUCHARIST…now if someone out there hears CALYPSO-ISLAND music and their thoughts are drawn to the EUCHARIST and not relaxing in Jamaica or a back-yard bbq somewhere…then, WOW…I stand corrected. Forgive my sarcasm…however, I truly believe that if people take an HONEST look at this…and admit that they insulted the Holy Father with music HE HIMSELF has said HE DOES NOT WANT in our Masses…then it is easy to see that most of what was presented as music does NOT draw one into the Eucharist…if we hear Gregorian Chant, or pipe organ hymns, or voices slowly, meditatively singing…these things can’t HELP but draw our minds to the Eucharist…the other…draw our minds to foot-tapping, hand clapping, dancing, and singing…which is what they’re MEANT to do…so keep them out of the MASS.

 

[mom_of_ten]

What about the Eastern Rites? They are not doing the Mass in traditional Latin. Are they not doing the Mass as Jesus laid out? Over the time I have been reading posts on these forums I have found many people in the Latin Rite to be very unaware that the Latin rite way of worshiping is not the only way that Catholics worship. The many ways Catholics worship is a testimony to the Holy Spirit guiding the Apostles to be linguistically and culturally sensitive. This guidance continues with VII calling for the use of language of the people at Mass.

I must note that my husband’s family is Byzantine…we have attended Mass in the rite many times…and NEVER have I left the Church without feeling that I have been exactly where I’ve been…in the presence of God Almighty with all of His Heavenly Hosts joined in Adoration of the One True Sacrifice. There is nothing even REMOTELY close to such a vulgar display of “entertaining” as was witnessed in DC. I encourage any who have access, to attend a Byzantine Liturgy…and then decide how the Holy Father must have felt at the insults thrust upon him at Nationals Park.

 

[mozier]

I was only to catch the end of it, from consecration on, but the music was crazy. No rhyme or reason. Some of it in my opinion was way too loud and peppy (like you were supposed to jump up amd clap your hands), for distributing and receiving the Most Holy Sacrament. There was a close up of Pope Benedict and I swear it looked like he wished he had earplugs.

I guess, it was an attempt to represent multi-cultural America. It sounded crazy though.

I was watching the mass via. my computer, and I thought the music was typical for a Pope John Paul II-style US Tour Mass, which did suprirse me a bit since I do know that Pope Benedict likes more traditional music. Still, it wasn’t that bad until the Offetory. The first hymn seemed fine, and I was across the room listening. Suddenly, there was this flute/recorder music that started up and I thought that my computer had somehow started one of my Jethro Tull songs over the papal mass audio! I soon found out it was actually music from the mass, and figured that the Hispanic Catholics were doing their Lite Salsa-type church music (that is what I call it, with no offense intended). It wasn’t terrible, but it was, well, — yes, it was weird.

But you know what would have happeend if they hadn’t allowed the music - the church is out of touch, Hispanic Catholics were denied, the church is becoming more and more Hispanic, etc. etc. etc. Commentary ad nauseum.

 

[Cobbfmly]

…Also, if you say that the Holy Spirit inspired that music; and we just aren’t used to it…then why didn’t the Holy Spirit also inspire the clapping?

Last night I tuned in at about the same point, but this time on TV rather than radio. The first place that the clapping bothered me on the radio was after Placido sang. On the radio, I was not able to see Placido going up to kiss the Pope’s ring. He was the only singer allowed to do this. My view of the clapping during this time was softened a little.

The other place was at the end of Mass. On the radio, I could not see the Pope with his arms spread wide, him giving the faithful his blessing, his reserved German grin and him repeating this over and over again resulting in ongoing clapping. If he did not care for the clapping, he would have done these guesters once without a grin and processed out. After seeing this, I completely understood the ongoing clapping.