Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

[Marauder]

Why would you be proud of taking part in music that the Holy Father has condemned for the Mass…and that he repeatedly has expressed is insulting and DAMAGING to the Mass?

First off the Holy Father hasn’t condemned the music that was used at the Mass. Yes he has said that Latin and chant should have a more prominent role and stuff like that, but he hasn’t condemed the music that was used.

Second, attacking the choir is like attacking the soldiers in Iraq. When people signed up for the choir they had no idea what they would be singing. They are just following the music provided for them and if they disagreed with it, they would have been shown the door and lost the opportunity to sing for the Pope.

 

[Ana]

Aloysiusg,

Why would you be proud of taking part in music that the Holy Father has condemned for the Mass…and that he repeatedly has expressed is insulting and DAMAGING to the Mass?

I agree with this too, and frankly am VERY interested in why you would be proud of taking part in what the Pope has explicitly CONDEMNED?

I can’t speak for mom of ten, but I would be satisfied with any answer you give. I am really trying hard to understand how you can reconcile this.

 

[Ana]

First off the Holy Father hasn’t condemned the music that was used at the Mass. Yes he has said that Latin and chant should have a more prominent role and stuff like that, but he hasn’t condemed the music that was used.

Second, attacking the choir is like attacking the soldiers in Iraq. When people signed up for the choir they had no idea what they would be singing. They are just following the music provided for them and if they disagreed with it, they would have been shown the door and lost the opportunity to sing for the Pope.

No one is attacking the choir. I would sing anything if it got me close to the Pope. Well … almost anything.

 

[mom_of_ten]

Al,
I am not looking for “satisfaction”…that is an odd response to a very direct question. But, you have chosen not to answer; and that is your right. It is a shame though, for in your answer, I and others might be able to glean a bit of understanding; which is all I was seeking.

God Bless You

 

[mom_of_ten]

First off the Holy Father hasn’t condemned the music that was used at the Mass. Yes he has said that Latin and chant should have a more prominent role and stuff like that, but he hasn’t condemed the music that was used.

Second, attacking the choir is like attacking the soldiers in Iraq. When people signed up for the choir they had no idea what they would be singing. They are just following the music provided for them and if they disagreed with it, they would have been shown the door and lost the opportunity to sing for the Pope.

I am not attacking anyone…I merely asked a simple question and was very open-minded and interested in the answer…which I have apparently been denied.

However, the Holy Father has said that that music has no place in our Masses…that is condemning its use in the Mass…he hasn’t FORBIDDEN it…but he has indeed condemned its use.

 

[Marauder]

No one is attacking the choir. I would sing anything if it got me close to the Pope. Well … almost anything.

That is in affect what you and momoften are doing by wondering why they are proud of signing. The choir did wonderful with the music they were provided. None of the songs by themselves were inappropriate, maybe not the best choice at the time they were sung, and maybe more chant and latin would have been better. But the individual members of the choir didn’t choose their songs and since there were multiple choirs involved I doubt any one choir member knew everything that was going to be happening.

 

[aloysiusg]

Very well, I will try…

I am one of those people who happens to get filled with the spirit out of many different types of music. I am fully aware of what is considered sacred and what is secular. In full disclosure, I do play a guitar at my parish, but I also love singing chant and organ music, which is part of what i appreciated about this mass. i had a first hand look at the director of the Gospel Choir Director, and I could see how filled with the Spirit he was when he led his choir, and that in turn filled me as well. I listen to the words, and all it ever sings about is Our Lord and praising Him. I find it very powerful. Admittedly, I do not prefer to do that every week - i need my balance of chant and four-part choir and comtmeporary as well, but this mass for me was a reminder of the richness of the Church and how it has grown all over the world, and i for one was very excited by that.

I hope that helps somewhat.

 

[Marauder]

However, the Holy Father has said that that music has no place in our Masses…that is condemning its use in the Mass…he hasn’t FORBIDDEN it…but he has indeed condemned its use.

In his role as the Pope he has never done this, he has expressed his opinion that he prefers more Latin and/or chant, but he has NEVER condemned the music that was used at the Mass.

Can you provide the lines, where he as Pope Bendict or in his official role as head of the doctrine of faith did more then just express his opinion? The only official lines deal with things like sacred music should tend towards this and that, not condemning the music that was used.

 

[Ana]

Very well, I will try…

I am one of those people who happens to get filled with the spirit out of many different types of music. I am fully aware of what is considered sacred and what is secular. In full disclosure, I do play a guitar at my parish, but I also love singing chant and organ music, which is part of what i appreciated about this mass. i had a first hand look at the director of the Gospel Choir Director, and I could see how filled with the Spirit he was when he led his choir, and that in turn filled me as well. I listen to the words, and all it ever sings about is Our Lord and praising Him. I find it very powerful. Admittedly, I do not prefer to do that every week - i need my balance of chant and four-part choir and comtmeporary as well, but this mass for me was a reminder of the richness of the Church and how it has grown all over the world, and i for one was very excited by that.

I hope that helps somewhat.

Oh I get it, so it’s “nevermind what the Pope wants, it’s what I want.” I could understand if like some others, were kind of just swept along by it. But to insist on your own way at the expressed disapproval of the Pope is just plain childish and rude.

 

[Cobbfmly]

I might be incorrect…but I think the poster who had mentioned the inappropriate clapping was referring to the clapping used as PART of the music at the offertory…the song itself actually HAD clapping IN IT!

I was the poster refering to clapping and those two points were what I was posting about in my origial post. I have not heard or seen the mass before the consicration.

 

[Ana]

In his role as the Pope he has never done this, he has expressed his opinion that he prefers more Latin and/or chant, but he has NEVER condemned the music that was used at the Mass.

Can you provide the lines, where he as Pope Bendict or in his official role as head of the doctrine of faith did more then just express his opinion? The only official lines deal with things like sacred music should tend towards this and that, not condemning the music that was used.

Even if it was “just his opinion.” Why wouldn’t his personal tastes and opinions be taken into consideration when planning the PAPAL MASS? And even if it was a faux paus, why can’t anyone admit it, instead of getting irritated and pointing the finger at the people that have “manners?”

 

[aloysiusg]

I do not think you are interpreting what i was saying correctly. This is why i was reluctant to express my appreciation for the music, because I did not feel it would be understood.

 

[mom_of_ten]

That is in affect what you and momoften are doing by wondering why they are proud of signing. The choir did wonderful with the music they were provided. None of the songs by themselves were inappropriate, maybe not the best choice at the time they were sung, and maybe more chant and latin would have been better. But the individual members of the choir didn’t choose their songs and since there were multiple choirs involved I doubt any one choir member knew everything that was going to be happening.

I did not ask why someone was proud of singing…I asked “why would you be proud to take part in music that the Holy Father has repeated said is insulting and damaging to the Mass”

Please do not twist my words.

 

[Marauder]

I did not ask why someone was proud of singing…I asked “why would you be proud to take part in music that the Holy Father has repeated said is insulting and damaging to the Mass”

Please do not twist my words.

Oh I’m sorry I didn’t use your exact words by saying “singing” instead of “take part in music”. I assumed that a choir member taking part in music at an event was actually singing the music, silly me.

 

[Marauder]

Even if it was “just his opinion.” Why wouldn’t his personal tastes and opinions be taken into consideration when planning the PAPAL MASS? And even if it was a faux paus, why can’t anyone admit it, instead of getting irritated and pointing the finger at the people that have “manners?”

His personal tastes were taken into account, definitly at the National Shrine and during parts of the Papal Mass. Does that mean all the parts have to be that way? If the Pope said that he prefers rap music does that mean that one of the songs has to be a rapped version of an allowed song. You are taking the preferences of the Pope to the extreme. Yes the Pope prefers that more Latin and chant be used. That doesn’t mean the entire Mass HAS to be Latin and chant. I personally think they didn’t have enough Latin and/or chant and I didn’t like all the music but I didn’t let it take away from the main purpose of the Mass to worship God with the Pope. I also don’t think asking a person in the choir “Why would you be proud of taking part in music that the Holy Father has condemned for the Mass?” is pretty good manners. When a) it hasn’t been condemned and b) it wasn’t the best way to ask the question in a charitable manner.

 

[peacelight]

Not sure about all of you my brothers and sisters in Christ. I strongly believe in the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit that lead to the chosen of the songs. Anything to do with the Church with good intention there is always Holy Spirit. Correct me if I am wrong but that is the reason why as for me, there is nothing wrong with the chosen of the music and songs yesterday. The Church is growing before our eyes. All over the world. Some Churches from other country they use their own languages and music for easy understanding for her flocks and yesterday truly a sign that His Church is indeed multicultural. In any style of songs, rhythm God still receives our prayers I truly believe in that because He knows our intentions. And yesterday the intentions were good intentions. We are fully aware of the Sacred Song though different style but the spirit came out from it still remain the same dedicated to the one true God. Now it is different if the lyric of the song got nothing to do with praising God that is another story. This is my take on the music yesterday. God bless one and all.

 

[Ana]

His personal tastes were taken into account, definitly at the National Shrine and during parts of the Papal Mass. Does that mean all the parts have to be that way? If the Pope said that he prefers rap music does that mean that one of the songs has to be a rapped version of an allowed song. You are taking the preferences of the Pope to the extreme. Yes the Pope prefers that more Latin and chant be used. That doesn’t mean the entire Mass HAS to be Latin and chant. I personally think they didn’t have enough Latin and/or chant and I didn’t like all the music but I didn’t let it take away from the main purpose of the Mass to worship God with the Pope. I also don’t think asking a person in the choir “Why would you be proud of taking part in music that the Holy Father has condemned for the Mass?” is pretty good manners. When a) it hasn’t been condemned and b) it wasn’t the best way to ask the question in a charitable manner.

To purposely plan music that the Pope can’t stand at a PAPAL MASS … is inconsiderate at best. Just MO.

The question may have been direct, but I hardly think it qualifies as bad manners.

 

[Ana]

Oh I’m sorry I didn’t use your exact words by saying “singing” instead of “take part in music”. I assumed that a choir member taking part in music at an event was actually singing the music, silly me.

In complete charity, and disregarding the sarcasm, there is a difference between commenting on singing in general and singing a **specific piece of music. **

 

[Ana]

Not sure about all of you my brothers and sisters in Christ. I strongly believe in the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit that lead to the chosen of the songs. Anything to do with the Church with good intention there is always Holy Spirit. Correct me if I am wrong but that is the reason why as for me, there is nothing wrong with the chosen of the music and songs yesterday. The Church is growing before our eyes. All over the world. Some Churches from other country they use their own languages and music for easy understanding for her flocks and yesterday truly a sign that His Church is indeed multicultural. In any style of songs, rhythm God still receives our prayers I truly believe in that because He knows our intentions. And yesterday the intentions were good intentions. We are fully aware of the Sacred Song though different style but the spirit came out from it still remain the same dedicated to the one true God. Now it is different if the lyric of the song got nothing to do with praising God that is another story. This is my take on the music yesterday. God bless one and all.

But is it a good intention to INTENTIONALLY plan music that the Pope has publicly said on many occassions that he finds distasteful?

If one was going to have the Pope over to share a meal, would you plan a menu of foods he is KNOWN to hate?

 

[TOP]

I’m just grateful that my two oldest son’s (10 &16 y.o.) where able to be a part of the Papal Mass. Grateful to the Holy Father for coming and the efforts of all who made it possible. We live in isolated WV mountains. Our parish is tiny and my oldest son has only 2 or 3 other Catholic students to identify with in his high school. They were beaming when they got off the bus last night. They now have more of an understanding of unitive body of Christ they belong to and it’s magnitude. A unity the Holy Father is stressing in the U.S…One that is absent on these forums. Tim