Papal nuncio: Catholic division undermines religious freedom

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50% of catholic voters reject Church teaching.
If by that, you mean because they voted for Obama, then I don’t know how you can make that sweeping claim.
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estesbob:
Some of those who didnt reject Church teaching point this out and they are blamed of those who did of causing division.
The Papal Nuncio was clear: Catholic politicians and intellectuals who give public support to the intrinsic evils embodied in the Democratic Party platform are the ones guilty of causing division, not those who object to such support.
 
Lets see if you can make this connection if it is listed plain and simple;

vote for dem = vote for platform

support pro-abortion candidate and he wins = support pro-abortion candidate and you own it
Alas your personal opinion does not square with the documents of the Catholic Church cited (Ratzinger, USCCB). No amount of spinning on your part will make it any different.
 
The Papal Nuncio was clear: Catholic politicians and intellectuals who give public support to the intrinsic evils embodied in the Democratic Party platform are the ones guilty of causing division, not those who object to such support.
Good thing he didn’t add “and their minions”, else Catholic political activists and aspiring intellectuals who give public support to the intrinsic evils embodied in the Democratic party platform would be in deep doo-doo. Ultimately, “support” is all about money. You fund something, you support it. You co-mingle “common good” with “intrinsic evil” and force taxpayers to pay for this poison, you are a poisoner. Note that the Papal Nuncio said “intrinsic evil”, not plural. There must be one evil on that platform that transcends the litany of intrinsic evils that are professed as basic principles. It must be the one at the top of the seamless garment list and it begins with “A”.
 
What the Papal Nuncio actually said

youtube.com/watch?v=-LAHbc3NAAU

and around 1 hour and 2 min he makes his statement:

We are still a far cry from fully embracing the Holy Father’s encouraging exhortation, when we witness in an unprecedented way a platform being assumed by a major political party, having intrinsic evil among its basic principles, and Catholic faithful publicly supporting it. There is a divisive strategy at work here, an intentional dividing of the Church. Through this strategy the body of the Church is weakened, and thus the Church can be more easily persecuted.



Of course, as a Catholic you cannot support abortion – in that the Archbishop only stated the obvious! Yet many Catholics vote Democratic without supporting abortion, and no Catholic here who voted Obama supports abortion. You can support a party for other reasons than supporting intrinsic evil in their platform, just like you can support a pro-choice candidate for other reasons than supporting his pro-choice position.

The latter is exactly what the Pope said when he was still Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

"[N.B. A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of
the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.]"

That is also exactly what the USCCB document Faithful Citizenship says:

“35. There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate’s unacceptable position may decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons. Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil.”

(Again, note that "“other morally grave reasons” contains the word “other” – obviously other than abortion etc.)

Precise words matter. And the precise words that the Papal Nuncio spoke are in no contradiction whatsoever with the words of Cardinal Ratzinger (the current Pope) and the USCCB guide Faithful Citizenship. The words that the NCR put into the Papal Nuncio’s mouth might have been interpreted by some (and it has been done here) to contradict these documents or to force a more concrete interpretation towards not being able to vote Democratic at all, yet the actual words that the Papal Nuncio spoke do not support that idea.

Thank you for posting this. Of course it’s much clearer, when all the documents are put together, that Catholics are not called to be ‘one issue voters’ and are to consider the whole picture when voting, so that the other important areas of concern are not swept under the rug and neglected.

The democratic party is accountable for the things that are contrary to Church teaching, not Catholics who look at the whole picture and take into account other areas (that are still important) they believe the party is less likely to screw up. The poor, the disabled, the sick, the young, the old…they are important too. My conscience would not allow me to vote with only one issue in mind. There is no one all important issue. And frankly, I’ve never seen these so-called “five non-negotiables” come from the Vatican. There are many issues, and to concentrate on only one issue is to ignore the rest, which are important too.
 
Alas your personal opinion does not square with the documents of the Catholic Church cited (Ratzinger, USCCB). No amount of spinning on your part will make it any different.
And at the end of the day, that’s what it all boils down to 😉

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and we all have them. But what really matters is the documents from the Church that you cited.
 
Lets see if you can make this connection if it is listed plain and simple;

vote for dem = vote for platform
And you believe the average voter, assuming he/she even knows what a party platform is, let alone knows what’s in it, bases their vote on a platform which even its drafters feel free to ignore? Just like the national GOP ticket ignores its platform.
 
Lets see if you can make this connection if it is listed plain and simple;

vote for dem = vote for platform

support pro-abortion candidate and he wins = support pro-abortion candidate and you own it
It really is that simple.

DGB
 
are many issues, and to concentrate on only one issue is to ignore the rest, which are important too.
Indeed. Let us look at those issues which fly in the face of all Christians:

Abortion on demand
Infanticide
Euthanasia
Contraception mandate
Funding of Planned Parenthood
Gay “marriage”

All these issues are part of the Democratic party platform and championed by Obama.
 
It is very clear. Abortion is an intrinsic evil. There is nothing greater than or equal to this evil…there is nothing proportionate to this evil. Why can’t you see this?
If nothing is proportionate why was it even mentioned? It was not so clear for millions of Catholics.
An example of using proportions is we can vote for a candidate (Romney) who says he is for legalized abortion only in cases of rape or incest (1% of abortions) when the alternative is a candidate (Obama) that aggressively seeks to protect the status quo of no limits on abortion.
 
Alas your personal opinion does not square with the documents of the Catholic Church cited (Ratzinger, USCCB).
The Deacon’s teachings are indeed in coordinance with the Church’s teaching.
No amount of spinning on your part will make it any different.
YOU are the one who is spinning. It took you a very long time to think of a spin on the Papal Nuncio teaching…in an attempt to justify the conscience of the Obama-Catholics.

Conscience is a funny thing. It won’t let you off the hook that easy. 🤷
 
The Deacon’s teachings are indeed in coordinance with the Church’s teaching.
The USCCB and Ratzinger might disagree with his spin on their words.
YOU are the one who is spinning. It took you a very long time to think of a spin on the Papal Nuncio teaching…
A long time? I just listened to the video yesterday evening, my friend, and realized the fundamental discrepancy with the NCR report on the speech instantly. Zero seconds is a long time indeed 🤷 😃
 
Thank you for posting this. Of course it’s much clearer, when all the documents are put together, that Catholics are not called to be ‘one issue voters’ and are to consider the whole picture when voting, so that the other important areas of concern are not swept under the rug and neglected.

The democratic party is accountable for the things that are contrary to Church teaching, not Catholics who look at the whole picture and take into account other areas (that are still important) they believe the party is less likely to screw up. The poor, the disabled, the sick, the young, the old…they are important too. My conscience would not allow me to vote with only one issue in mind. There is no one all important issue. And frankly, I’ve never seen these so-called “five non-negotiables” come from the Vatican. There are many issues, and to concentrate on only one issue is to ignore the rest, which are important too.
I agree with you on all accounts. Also about the “five non-negotiables” – that is not official language of the Catholic Church.
 
The USCCB and Ratzinger might disagree with his spin on their words.
It has been proven over and over again that it is your spin that is not in accordance with the Catholic Church teaching. 😉
Zero seconds is a long time indeed
This thread has been going a long time…and you finally thought you could search for a way to spin it. But of course you only buried youself in a deeper hole. :nope:
 
The USCCB and Ratzinger might disagree with his spin on their words.

A long time? I just listened to the video yesterday evening, my friend, and realized the fundamental discrepancy with the NCR report on the speech instantly. Zero seconds is a long time indeed 🤷 😃
My words are in direct agreement. I will stand on thier entire body of work with scripture and tradition. I do not use specific words and phrases to show my idea is tight. I use the full true and let it speak for itself to bring unity in that truth. You pick and choose to cause division. It all depends on what the meaning of the “it” is. Sound familiar??
 
It has been proven over and over again that it is your spin that is not in accordance with the Catholic Church teaching. 😉
Several posters here obviously disagree with your entirely subjective assessment.
This thread has been going a long time…and you finally thought you could search for a way to spin it. But of course you only buried youself in a deeper hole. :nope:
So, my friend, why didn’t you think of digging up the actual video of the speech, instead of just believing the NCR report? Just asking . . . 🤷
 
Several posters here obviously disagree with your entirely subjective assessment.
Yes…just a few.

(but I am wondering why you refer to your Church’s teaching as “entirely subjective”)?
So, my friend, why didn’t you think of digging up the actual video of the speech, instead of just believing the NCR report? Just asking . . . 🤷
I figured that one of the Obama-Catholics would do it in an attempt to find something to justify their vote.

I was right. 😃
 
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