Papal Problems...:(

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I really don’t understand the Orthodox beef with Papal Infallibility. It was a Council that declared it. 🤷 If the Pope declared being infallible, that would be a different story.

Alaha minokhoun
Andrew
 
I really don’t understand the Orthodox beef with Papal Infallibility. It was a Council that declared it. 🤷 If the Pope declared being infallible, that would be a different story.

Alaha minokhoun
Andrew
A council in schism.

And as for council, sort of like the Soviet duma. Rubber stamp.

Pius’ name is the only one on Pastor Aeternus
 
See the revision. I first had to find the original to make sure of whose name was on it.
See the following link on the 1st Vatican Council

Scroll down to section C and read about it. They can explain it far better than I. None of the bishops that left the Council were opposed to the declaration of Papal Infallibility, but felt it wasn’t the best time to declare it.

Alaha minokhoun
Andrew
 
None of the bishops that left the Council were opposed to the declaration of Papal Infallibility, but felt it wasn’t the best time to declare it.
I wonder then, why they felt it necessary to leave.
 
I wonder then, why they felt it necessary to leave.
Because they felt it was not the best time for the Council to declare it. But things are done in God’s timing and not ours. He willed it to happen.😉

Alaha minokhoun
Andrew
 
See the following link on the 1st Vatican Council

Scroll down to section C and read about it. They can explain it far better than I. None of the bishops that left the Council were opposed to the declaration of Papal Infallibility, but felt it wasn’t the best time to declare it.

Alaha minokhoun
Andrew
And that includes there name on it how? even if true…
 
Uh…ok, sure 😉
Whether you believe Papal Infallibility to be true or not, God willed the Council Fathers to make that decision. This, surely you cannot deny. Yet, I haven’t been surprised here on CAF yet.😃

Alaha minokhoun
Andrew
 
Whether you believe Papal Infallibility to be true or not, God willed the Council Fathers to make that decision. This, surely you cannot deny.
This is just more myth-making.

The gathering in 1870AD at the Vatican was a pseudo-council (to borrow a description of it from a well known Melkite Catholic bishop). That pseudo-Council did not decide anything of substance for the church at large, a faction of individuals (now long gone to God) engaged in church-jacking. Not for the first, and possibly not for the last time such a thing would be tried.

So in a sense you are merely their victim, defending the outcome because you think you have no other option.

Marduk is in one way right to say that the Pope has a limited scope of powers, because in Truth he would. The privilege of powers confirmed for the Bishops of Rome at Vatican I are the de facto reality of your church, but not by right or truth.

Your church’s problem, right now, is how to back away of these claims without alarming the faithful, who are not ready to see such a reversal and might not understand that it was all a mistake, undertaken by overzealous bishops at one point in history.

The peoples understanding of church is so bound up with these ideas that moving too rapidly could cause a serious crises in Faith for them. A quick move away from the Papal dogmas could jeopardize their Faith, we must be understanding of this and work slowly to correct the error.

Michael
 
Wrong. I am participating in this thread and the issue has not been explained to my satisfaction. If you don’t feel like explaining it then don’t but do not presume that you already “satisfied” anybody but yourself and your fellow catholics.
I did not see you participating in that thread to which I referred. Where are your posts?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Then you and siemprefide are arguing way off point. Rome teaches a lot of things but not everything that she teaches is considered infallible. So my question is

What are all the “teachings that are divinely revealed or that have been definitively pronounced [that] require the assent of faith”?

So do you have an answer?
Yes. The ones that satisfy the conditions set out at the Vatican Council. You are leaving the Church anyway, you have made that obvious. Thus, it’s also obvious your question is only given for polemic reasons. Such being the case, it deserves no answer. Concerned Catholics are well aware what is important in our Faith. Much, if not most, of what is important to us was not given by virtue of an ex cathedra pronouncement.

If you choose to leave the Catholic Church because people are uncertain to the very last detail what the Church teaches, and how it has become de fide for us (whether by Council definition, by ex cathedra definition, or by the teaching of the Church at large), then that is your personal error which you will have to give accout to God for…

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Are you saying the CCC is infallible? Which pronouncements?
The CCC provides an excellent listing of the infallible teachings that God has given us through the Catholic Church. BTW, books are not infallible. The closest thing we have is the Bible which is inerrant because its contents were of divine inspiration.

Blessings
 
They did in 1014. At the very least.

Btw, in Ephraim’s time, no heresy had prevailed at Antioch. She did fall to Montheletism (hence the Maronites), but so did Rome.
I’ve had enough of this. This is a lie and I am not ashamed to say it.

I will pray for you.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
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