Parents’ ‘Sex Ed Sit Out’ Protesting Forced Gender Ideology in Schools Spreads Across Country

[Pup7]

Any idea how someone with strong testosterone/Androgen resistance might look by then?

To be honest, I don’t know that you could definitively say. I’m not an endocrinology expert, and I’ll admit that. But I do know that the Y is going to obviously have a strong influence. Not to be contrary, but one can medically “what if” all day long on that account and probably never really have the answer. (That’s not a smart remark, for the record, and it’s not intended to be.)

 

[Pup7]

Possibly. I agree that child mental health is in need of improvement (I suppose as with most mental health stuff). People seem to not understand that children can need mental health support.

THIS. You and will ALWAYS, ALWAYS agree on this.

It’s bad for everyone. In fact, it’s deplorable, abhorrent - I really don’t know dignified words that are dire enough.

 

[Charbel]

I feel like you are being intentionally obtuse. How would 2000 students have gym all at the same time? Why should we allow biological males into the showers, lockers and bathrooms of girls?

 

[edwest211]

We shouldn’t. Ever.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Not to be contrary, but one can medically “what if” all day long on that account and probably never really have the answer. (That’s not a smart remark, for the record, and it’s not intended to be.)

Thanks for the clarification on it not being a smart remark. But it sounds like you are saying the outcome of this one attribute isn’t deterministic. That might be why I haven’t seen anything definitive on it.

 

[Pup7]

Or because it has yet to occur, or because when you start putting together a laundry list of possible genetic outcomes that hasn’t happened. (Again not a cute remark.)

(I’m including that because the internet doesn’t translate well, as we all know.)

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Mental health services in Australia leave a lot to be desired. In the youth age range , we have very high suicide rates , issues with bullying and issues with dysfunctional families and youth homelessness.

 

[Thorolfr]

So they’re going to have a genetic - karyotypic, I’m guessing - male grow up as a female.

Which means hormone treatments. For life.

Yeah I’m against that 100%.

Starting in the 1950s when “corrective” surgery on Intersex children became much more common than previously, most Intersex children, regardless of whether they were genetically XX or XY, were made into females. This is because, as the John Hopkins University surgeon John P. Gearhart supposedly said, “It’s easier to dig a hole than build a pole.” For a little history, see this:

In the 1950s, Johns Hopkins University created a team and became the first medical center to offer an organized multi-disciplinary approach to intersex, one that sought to essentially eliminate intersex in early childhood. The approach developed there came to be known as the “optimum gender of rearing” model. The basic idea was that each child’s potential for a “normal” gender identity should be maximized by making each child’s body, upbringing, and mind align as much as possible. Because of the belief that it was harder to surgically engineer a boy than a girl, most children with intersex were made as feminine as possible, utilizing surgery, endocrinology, and psychology. A “successful” patient was one judged to be stable and “normal” (i.e., heterosexual) in the assigned gender. (In an era of vice squads raiding gay bars, it is not surprising that homosexuality appeared to most of these professionals an untenable identity.)

http://www.isna.org/faq/history

 

[pnewton]

I am a little concerned with the idea of turning to psychologists for help with decisions that should be made by parents. I understand that no small number of children benefit from modern psychology. However, in the area of sexual orientation and gender identification, I would not trust one of those psychiatrist further that I can throw an elephant. Their whole profession is built on morally dubious principles.

 

[Pup7]

I had heard that before. There’s a lot of “questionable” medicine from that era, although at the time they believed what they were doing was right.

 

[Alex337]

Let’s say that in the counseling, the person who refuses to use alternate pronouns for religious reasons. What, in your opinion, should happen to the person who refuses?

Ask them not to refer to the person at all and have the two kept separate. It’s pretty easy. I’ve had folks in one of the businesses I supervised who had troubles with each other and we just had them stop interacting, and we were a small business of only 6 - 12 people at any one time.

 

[Alex337]

Given that in most countries irreversible surgeries for trans* people can’t be done until 16 to 18 when the person involved gives the legal consent it would seem such a hypothetical case wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.

 

[Alex337]

I can see the logic of not having doors on the stalls… but frankly I’d hate it. As a student I’d have hated it and not been able to go. And as a teacher I’d hate it as I wouldn’t feel at all comfortable going near those rooms.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

I actually support hormone blockers in these situations as they don’t have lasting effects

Are we sure it doesn’t cause problems down the road? I’m serious, because I don’t know the answer. This isn’t my expertise.

It’s not mine either I freely admit, I’ve found some more info here; http://transhealth.phsa.ca/medical-options/hormones/puberty-blockers

"Puberty blockers are considered to be very safe overall.

We are not sure if puberty blockers have negative side effects on bone development and height. Research done so far shows that the effects are minimal. However, we won’t know the long-term effects until the first people to take puberty-blockers get older."

They’re used in extreme circumstances, they’re certainly not used for every child questioning their gender.

 

[Alex337]

I feel like you are being intentionally obtuse. How would 2000 students have gym all at the same time? Why should we allow biological males into the showers, lockers and bathrooms of girls?

I’m certainly not trying to be, I’m sorry if it appeared that way. The largest school I’ve worked at was about 600 students, there aren’t all that many schools in Aus that reach numbers like your example and when they do they often have multiple campuses.

So in all honesty I would need to know how many different gym set ups there are for the school, how many students actually take gym (I know in Aus once you get to a certain year PE becomes optional) and whether any of the PE is taken outside of the school (the school I work at will take classes down to the local pool through the summer for an intensive swimming course for example).

I would also look into the cost of installing stalls in the bathrooms out of a matter of dignity for all involved. Male, female or somewhere in between being forced to shower with your peers, especially during puberty, sounds like a nightmare. To be honest I’m now considering the logistics of avoiding having these students forced to shower with each other just out of dignities sake.

I remember when I was in school and we went to the local pools that didn’t have enough stalls; people would form up into huddles to hold towels up around the person getting changed outside of the stall. No one wanted to change in front of everyone.

 

[Pup7]

So in all honesty I would need to know how many different gym set ups there are for the school, how many students actually take gym (I know in Aus once you get to a certain year PE becomes optional) and whether any of the PE is taken outside of the school (the school I work at will take classes down to the local pool through the summer for an intensive swimming course for example).

In the US, in most schools, there’s two: one male, one female. Sometimes there are multiple locker rooms, but that’s usually in older schools that have had added facilities to accommodate expanding numbers. New, “swanky” (LOL, mine was not!) high schools have locker rooms that rival those of some universities. This isn’t considered a handicap, so retrofitting isn’t Federally funded. Many school systems in the US are already stretched to the limits funding wise. In the county I lived in, there is no way there would be funds to retrofit an already aging high school (the buildings are now pushing 40 years old, and are showing their age) that the county is starting to fight for money to replace, and replacement is likely another ten to fifteen years away.

That story is not unique.

We have massive high schools in the US, some with upwards of 2000 students. My high school was about 450, which is TINY by American standards. And it was a public, not parochial, high school.

We don’t have a national curriculum per se, so PE requirements and options vary across the board.

I would not want my daughter to be uncomfortable in a locker room because of the presence of a phenotypic male, nor would I want my son to be uncomfortable in the opposite position. I would pull my kid out of that school if he or she were forced into that situation where THEY told me “I am uncomfortable with this”. It’s not my situation - it would be up to them. I’m not that parent.

So the opposite answer is to sequester these kids in a “private” room, which won’t do them much good either.

This is the exact same objection you heard among the active duty enlisted who all showered together during basic training (I am prior enlisted, so I did it too, and I know what they meant.)

There really is no decent answer here.

 

[Alex337]

Heh, I can’t help but think that were I sent to such a school I’d have run directly to my parents and said I was uncomfortable changing in front of anyone.

I was in highschool when mobile phones were first starting to be a common thing, not smartphones yet by any means, and I still remember the time some girls in my year tried to force a stall open to snap a pixel-y black and white photo of the girl inside who hadn’t locked the door properly. No thank you to not even having the protection of a stall.

 

[Pup7]

Oh, I used to change in the potty! A lot of girls did.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

As a student I’d have hated it and not been able to go.

For me as far as I was concerned the school only had urinals. In all my elementary school years there were only a few times I used the toilet. I’d get a pass to go during class when I could have the bathroom all to myself. If someone did have to use the toilet other boys would line up to ridicule the person for having their pants down. The girls didn’t believe that we really didn’t have doors in there.

 

[Alex337]

That sounds horrible.