I only ever come here as a “lurker”, to keep up to date with Catholic news and general ultra-orthodox/theocon opinion (I teach RE within a Catholic School) but at long last, I’ve signed up to comment.
theCrow, I’ve seen you post a few times already and you seem like a fairly reasonable individual open to debate and thought. As a “practicing” homosexual, an ex Catholic and a Theologian here’s some advice.
Don’t bother.
The vast majority of Catholics, 53% very much in favor of SSM judging from the latest Pew Report may be open to reason and debate, but the ultra orthodox (“True Catholics” depending on which section of the arena your sat in) you will find here are not.
The core base of Catholicism is anti-debate and as you’ve probably noted by this point anti-reason (that half baked nonsense touted as “reason” and “intellectual tradition” by the likes of Chesterton is clearly to any impartial mind anything but). Many Catholics have accepted this, the core die hard center has not.
Really, leave them to it. The louder and longer they scream their bigotry the more people will come to hate them
If you need any proof of this just turn to Westaboro Baptist church, they’re utterly loathed by everyone and have shrank into oblivion without a hand raised against them. There is no need for an “Communist plot” or a “gay agenda” to attack to the Catholic Church (if there ever has been such a plot, I very much doubt it, that assumes there is anything that valuable worth attacking which to the non beliver there isn’t), it does a mighty fine job of incriminating and damaging itself by statements like “gays are like pedophiles”, “women are the lesser vessel”, “there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church”. It’s it’s own worse enemy, extremists always are unless you’re one of those poor souls blinded by it or too scared to speak out.
When a lunatic approaches you in the street and states somethin utterly ludicrous as “Lesbian Sex is the equivalent of Zoophilia” do you listen to them? I’m sure you don’t.
Once upon a time there was a need to rationalize and debate with Catholics, Fundamentalists or any other form of religious extremist to secure basic rights we take for granted today like freedom of religion (or ireligion) and freedom of thought but today there isn’t. They are a minority in society, 90% of sane individuals recognize them for what they are and don’t award any credence to them. They don’t even have any power in society any more, nevermind a united front within their own ranks.
And as to the original topic and as a homosexual who did indeed recive “the talk” from a devout Catholic…It’s not possible. Let’s review the points as mentioned by Blueeyedlady.
According to the Catholic Church…
I cannot marry: I can marry another woman certainly but how cruel would that be? Knowing, or even worse being deceived to think that I have any form of sexual desire for her when I really don’t. That’s not a loving relationship by any measure, it subjects the woman to the indignity of being a mere baby factory. Only a true supporter of patriarchy and one with an utter disregard for women would suggest that to me.
I cannot become a priest: According to a decree the Pope Emeritus this is quite true, it is forbidden for a male with only homosexual attractions to enter the priesthood. Until this point I know of a good many Catholics who tried to coerce homosexual relatives into joining the priesthood for fear of shame. It was thought the only place for them.
I cannot adopt: Since I am the intrinsically disordered and innately evil who would suggest entrusting a child to my care, even presuming I did marry a woman? If history is anything to go by (take Oscar Wilde for example) I would have any children, adopted or biological taken away from me by “Good Catholics” for the safety of the childs soul.
I cannot live with another man: Because this is an occasion of sin and scandal, like I am some sort of wild nymphomaniac who will pounce on and mate with anything in sight.
I cannot live with another woman: Again, also an occasion of sin and arguably an even bigger scandal. Perhaps people are frightened I may turn straight, who knows.
But I think we should also add to this talk…
I cannot work with children: Because again, I’m a sexually depraved morally evil pervert apparently.
I can have no opinion on theological matters: I noted on many occasions while I was studying my Masters in Biblical Scholarship that my opinion on the texts was worthless to many of the other students
because I am homosexual. Being morally evil, how can I possibly do anything morally right without being hand led by “good Catholics”?
I cannot play sports, go swimming or use public changing rooms: Again, because I might pounce on and rape someone in the Church’s line of thinking.
Really. It won’t be in the next few years, or even in the next couple of decades. Sooner or later though something will give and it wont be reasonable society. The Church will change its stance, or quite frankly it will collapse in on itself with no outside help.
The gay people who want more will leave the church, and those who can be happy in those circumstances will stay. It’s a personal choice.
My head of department and fellow RE teacher are all too fond of telling me how I am worthy of death and eternal torture forever for my crimes against nature. I’m rather relived that most of the staff and none of the students I have encountered share their fevour While this isn’t church teaching, Catholic institutions are generally as welcoming to homosexuals (especially married ones like myself) as a KKK rally is to Catholics.