Parents of Gay Children, having "the talk"

[estesbob]

So does anyone here actually have a close friend/family member/daughter/son/sister/brother/mom/dad/ who is Gay?

.

In our case she rejected Chastity. So then the question is what next?

We include her significant other in all family events, we continue to love her unconditionally and we strive to have a relationship where we never affirm her life choice but never push her away. The other thing we do is pray unceasingly that both of them will realize the problem with their lifestyle , reject it and return to the Church.

In short accept but never affirm.

The Chasity discussion you mention, BTW, we had with all of our daughters. Their sexual attractions are irrelevant to the discussion-we are ALL called to Chasity.

 

[Jobis]

I only ever come here as a “lurker”, to keep up to date with Catholic news and general ultra-orthodox/theocon opinion (I teach RE within a Catholic School) but at long last, I’ve signed up to comment.

theCrow, I’ve seen you post a few times already and you seem like a fairly reasonable individual open to debate and thought. As a “practicing” homosexual, an ex Catholic and a Theologian here’s some advice.

Don’t bother.

The vast majority of Catholics, 53% very much in favor of SSM judging from the latest Pew Report may be open to reason and debate, but the ultra orthodox (“True Catholics” depending on which section of the arena your sat in) you will find here are not.

The core base of Catholicism is anti-debate and as you’ve probably noted by this point anti-reason (that half baked nonsense touted as “reason” and “intellectual tradition” by the likes of Chesterton is clearly to any impartial mind anything but). Many Catholics have accepted this, the core die hard center has not.

Really, leave them to it. The louder and longer they scream their bigotry the more people will come to hate them If you need any proof of this just turn to Westaboro Baptist church, they’re utterly loathed by everyone and have shrank into oblivion without a hand raised against them. There is no need for an “Communist plot” or a “gay agenda” to attack to the Catholic Church (if there ever has been such a plot, I very much doubt it, that assumes there is anything that valuable worth attacking which to the non beliver there isn’t), it does a mighty fine job of incriminating and damaging itself by statements like “gays are like pedophiles”, “women are the lesser vessel”, “there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church”. It’s it’s own worse enemy, extremists always are unless you’re one of those poor souls blinded by it or too scared to speak out.

When a lunatic approaches you in the street and states somethin utterly ludicrous as “Lesbian Sex is the equivalent of Zoophilia” do you listen to them? I’m sure you don’t.

Once upon a time there was a need to rationalize and debate with Catholics, Fundamentalists or any other form of religious extremist to secure basic rights we take for granted today like freedom of religion (or ireligion) and freedom of thought but today there isn’t. They are a minority in society, 90% of sane individuals recognize them for what they are and don’t award any credence to them. They don’t even have any power in society any more, nevermind a united front within their own ranks.

---

And as to the original topic and as a homosexual who did indeed recive “the talk” from a devout Catholic…It’s not possible. Let’s review the points as mentioned by Blueeyedlady.

According to the Catholic Church…

I cannot marry: I can marry another woman certainly but how cruel would that be? Knowing, or even worse being deceived to think that I have any form of sexual desire for her when I really don’t. That’s not a loving relationship by any measure, it subjects the woman to the indignity of being a mere baby factory. Only a true supporter of patriarchy and one with an utter disregard for women would suggest that to me.

I cannot become a priest: According to a decree the Pope Emeritus this is quite true, it is forbidden for a male with only homosexual attractions to enter the priesthood. Until this point I know of a good many Catholics who tried to coerce homosexual relatives into joining the priesthood for fear of shame. It was thought the only place for them.

I cannot adopt: Since I am the intrinsically disordered and innately evil who would suggest entrusting a child to my care, even presuming I did marry a woman? If history is anything to go by (take Oscar Wilde for example) I would have any children, adopted or biological taken away from me by “Good Catholics” for the safety of the childs soul.

I cannot live with another man: Because this is an occasion of sin and scandal, like I am some sort of wild nymphomaniac who will pounce on and mate with anything in sight.

I cannot live with another woman: Again, also an occasion of sin and arguably an even bigger scandal. Perhaps people are frightened I may turn straight, who knows.

But I think we should also add to this talk…

I cannot work with children: Because again, I’m a sexually depraved morally evil pervert apparently.

I can have no opinion on theological matters: I noted on many occasions while I was studying my Masters in Biblical Scholarship that my opinion on the texts was worthless to many of the other students because I am homosexual. Being morally evil, how can I possibly do anything morally right without being hand led by “good Catholics”?

I cannot play sports, go swimming or use public changing rooms: Again, because I might pounce on and rape someone in the Church’s line of thinking.

Really. It won’t be in the next few years, or even in the next couple of decades. Sooner or later though something will give and it wont be reasonable society. The Church will change its stance, or quite frankly it will collapse in on itself with no outside help.

The irony is that you talk about being on the side of reasonable debate, yet you provide no arguments, only emotive protestations.

Also maybe, just maybe, the reason you aren’t taken seriously on theological or moral matters is because you yourself show know regard for their seriousness.

I have never heard a reasonable argument to support homosexuality, in the context of christianity. Christianity fails again and again where it contradicts itself by permitting such behaviour, and becomes rationally insupportable as a belief system because of those contradictions.

 

[Richard_White]

Well said, well said!

Back to my original post, this is the exact reason why there MUST be a change in the church. There, I said it.

I have Gay friends and family. And according to the Catholic “law” I posted, they are called to chastity. And according to that “law”:

1. The Church will never recognize their Gay Marriage as natural, real, or beautiful. Instead, like their homosexuality, it’s intrinsically disordered.
2. If you express yourself through sexual intimacy and “make love” to your partner, you are committing a grave sin. Yet when straight people do it, it’s the most beautiful expression of love there is. (Hypocrisy supreme)
3. You can only have platonic friends.

Ok, this makes me really upset and it’s the reason I feel as passionately as I do. If I’m lucky and blessed enough to get into Heaven, I’d be happy to explain my case to God. Gay people and Straight people ARE THE SAME! Their LOVE is the SAME and they fall in LOVE the SAME way!

To suggest otherwise is to be oppressive and bigoted…because:

They, obviously, and many many more people gay and straight believe there is nothing wrong with being homosexual.

From a psychological perspective: (5 more reasons)

---

1. Homosexuality is a normal variant of adult sexuality; gay men and lesbians possess the same potential and desire for sustained loving and lasting relationships as heterosexuals, including loving and parenting children. This is supported by hard data, not just opinion.
2. Discriminatory marriage laws deprive gay and lesbian couples of over 1000 federal rights and benefits
3. Deprivation of these benefits has demonstrable negative psychological and social impact on same sex couples, their children and families.
4. Change and adaptation make for a stronger and psychologically richer society
5. Same sex couples can teach heterosexual couples how couples in relationships lacking gender based power dynamics often solve problems and make decisions with more respect and mutuality.
6. Ending discrimination enhances the human spirit and makes all our lives better.

There is only one question that I have for you, my friend:

You claim to be a Catholic, albeit “cafeteria,” so my question is this:

Do you not care about what God Himself has said, condemning homosexuality in practice, not only directly to Moses and through the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but also through Saint Paul and Saint Jude, who condemned it in their letters? Does the Word of the Almighty God mean nothing to you? I hope for you salvation that it does.

May God bless you and lead you into His Truth!

 

[Rixx]

The irony is that you talk about being on the side of reasonable debate, yet you provide no arguments, only emotive protestations.

If you care to open another thread I am willing to enter into a debate, but that is not the purpose of this thread. I was providing the OP with my personal opinion, which can be tinged by cold logic, compassion, anger or anything one can imagine.

Also maybe, just maybe, the reason you aren’t taken seriously on theological or moral matters is because you yourself show know regard for their seriousness.

Quite contrare, why would I bother studying and teaching others about Religious matters if I thought them silly or meaningless?

I am not taking them seriously merely because I do not subscribe to the same opinion you yourself are ordered on pain of being in a state of mortal sin by Church superiors to accept? That’s closer to the truth.

I have never heard a reasonable argument to support homosexuality, in the context of christianity. Christianity fails again and again where it contradicts itself by permitting such behaviour, and becomes rationally insupportable as a belief system because of those contradictions.

Christianity is awash with contradictions, God never changes, and yet it’s no longer ok to beat ones cheating spouse and their lover to death when it was perfectly fine two thousand years ago. Women are not to instruct men, but now the vast majority of RCIA instructors and RE teachers (in Britain at least) are women.

Accepting homosexuality is no more irrational than how you accept the eating of shrimp or that women can speak inside of churches.

 

[Rixx]

Also, if I may be so bold to comment…

Do you not care about what God Himself has said, condemning homosexuality in practice

“God” also condemned at some point in scripture or Church history rapists not marrying their victims, women remaining in the family home during their menstural cycle, fighting for the abolition of slavery and the eating of shellfish.

God has a habit of sending us very mixed messages when he chooses to reveal himself if your current position is correct.

not only directly to Moses and through the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but also through Saint Paul and Saint Jude, who condemned it in their letters?

Saints are not God. Many saints over history have also condemned Womens Sufferage, Railroads, Motorcars, the abolition of slavery, eating until full, reading the Bible in anything other than Latin and many other things we take today as granted.

Saints may be exemplars of good practice, but that doesn’t mean they are infallible and always get it right. There are records of some really rather bloodthirsty saints, take St. Thomas Aquinas for example…

“Every part is directed to the whole, as imperfect to perfect, wherefore every part exists naturally for the sake of the whole. For this reason we see that if the health of the whole human body demands the excision of a member, because it became putrid or infectious to the other members, it would be both praiseworthy and healthful to have it cut away. Now every individual person is related to the entire society as a part to the whole. Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and healthful that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since "a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump” (Summa Theologiae, II, II, q. 64, art. 2).

Was he always right? Because if he was you better go grab a sword; there’s a lot of heretics who need to be put to death.

Does the Word of the Almighty God mean nothing to you? I hope for you salvation that it does.

Gods word in the Catholic Church over history is remarkably subjective and open to change depending on the whims of whoever happened to be in control (I don’t think anyone has forgotten that rather large u-turn on the matter of Ursury at ever such a convenient time). Threats of Divine Wrath stopped working around the time of the reformation my friend and have weakened ever since.

 

[Royalist]

Having continual homosexual impulses, i.e: Never a heterosexual one DOES bar you from the priesthood. By the same token, a gay man who every now and then looks at a woman is not hetrosexual, he is a “deep seated” homosexual and barred from the priesthood and many religious orders as well.

All candidates have to undertake celibacy before consideration, this is not unique to homosexuals. What is however is that by only or predominately being attracted to men does bar them.

I don’t know if this is true yet, but… it should be. The Church can’t afford – and I use the word “afford” here in the most literal sense – any more gay priests.

As for Blueeyedlady’s list, most of it applies to any person who has seriously disordered sexual impulses or major mental illness.

However, a homosexual can certain live with someone of the same sex. What’s not prudent is living with another homosexual.

 

[Rixx]

I don’t know if this is true yet, but… it should be. The Church can’t afford – and I use the word “afford” here in the most literal sense – any more gay priests.

I’ll only speak for myself in this case but as a boy (I’m in my late twenties now) it was…fairly clear from my mannerisms and interests I was not hetrosexual and again, it was made clear to me on a few occasions that the only place I could have in society was as a Priest.

Now that option is gone, what are homosexuals supposed to do exactly? If we remain alone we’re assumed to be creepy pedophiles, but if we live with another single person of either gender or attempt to start a family again we’re either promoting scandal or are devil-worshipping perverts.

It seems the Catholic church would rather I remain indoors during the daytime away from civilized eyes and only come out during limited ours after dark once decent people and children are inside their homes.

As for Blueeyedlady’s list, most of it applies to any person who has seriously disordered sexual impulses or major mental illness.

That’s assuming I have a major mental illness which neither I nor modern medicine would agree with.

However, a homosexual can certain live with someone of the same sex. What’s not prudent is living with another homosexual.

This isn’t true, I was told that living with another hetrosexual man while I was at university (a good freind of mine) was an occasion of sin, promoted scandal and that I should find another place to live. I know of several other Catholics who were told the same.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

1. NEVER adopt a child of your own
2. NEVER become a Priest

Where does Catholic teaching say gay people can’t adopt or become priests? Neither of those has anything to do with sex or marriage. In fact, I would think chaste gay people would be great priests since they can’t get married anyway … :\

 

[Rixx]

1. NEVER adopt a child of your own
2. NEVER become a Priest

Where does Catholic teaching say gay people can’t adopt or become priests? Neither of those has anything to do with sex or marriage. In fact, I would think chaste gay people would be great priests since they can’t get married anyway … :\

The Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI banned “Deep Seated” Homosexuals (i.e: Non Hetrosexual or Bisexual men) from the priesthood, another Catholic can provide the link but it is made clear under no condition are they to be ordained. It is also hinted that part of that reason is because homosexual men are a threat to children.

And it’s also true homosexual men and women cannot adopt, since a child deserves a home modeled on the holy family, one man and one woman. Two men, or one man or woman alone cannot provide this in the Church’s eyes. It would rather a child remain in care than be cared for by a homosexual. One of the reasons the Catholic adoption agencies were forcibly shut in the UK, because they were deemed to be deliberately, often going miles out of their way depriving children of a chance of a loving family.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

This isn’t true, I was told that living with another hetrosexual man while I was at university (a good freind of mine) was an occasion of sin, promoted scandal and that I should find another place to live. I know of several other Catholics who were told the same.

Who on earth told you that? That’s the strangest advice I’ve ever heard.

 

[QuasiCatholic]

The Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI banned “Deep Seated” Homosexuals (i.e: Non Hetrosexual or Bisexual men) from the priesthood, another Catholic can provide the link but it is made clear under no condition are they to be ordained. It is also hinted that part of that reason is because homosexual men are a threat to children.

And it’s also true homosexual men and women cannot adopt, since a child deserves a home modeled on the holy family, one man and one woman. Two men, or one man or woman alone cannot provide this in the Church’s eyes. It would rather a child remain in care than be cared for by a homosexual. One of the reasons the Catholic adoption agencies were forcibly shut in the UK, because they were deemed to be deliberately, often going miles out of their way depriving children of a chance of a loving family.

A) Homosexual men do not pose anymore threat to children than men in general do. People really need to stop saying that because there is absolutely no statistical evidence to back it up.

B) I don’t know what Pope Benedict said, but Pope Francis said just a few months ago that he doesn’t see a problem with gay priests as long as they don’t act on it. How exactly would anyone know they were gay anyway in that case?

C) Catholic teaching says its better if a child has both BIOLOGICAL parents available. But it doesn’t require two parents (what would happen to widows/widowers?) and it doesn’t require biological parents (it’s been arranging adoptions for years.) So while I could see a Catholic adoption agency being hesitant to place a child with a single parent, I’m not aware of any actual prohibition against single Catholics adopting… are you??

 

[QuasiCatholic]

Who on earth told you that? That’s the strangest advice I’ve ever heard.

DItto – that’s basically how all guys who go to college live. It’s called having a roommate.

 

[Rixx]

A) Homosexual men do not pose anymore threat to children than men in general do. People really need to stop saying that because there is absolutely no statistical evidence to back it up.

I wish they would, but I’ve noted several posters on this forum alone who belive just that and I personally think the Catholic Church half encourages them. Take that Bishop over in Illinois last year who tried to exorcise “The gay demons” from the state, or that Ugandan ArchBishop who was practically cheerleading the Death to Homosexuals legislation.

B) I don’t know what Pope Benedict said, but Pope Francis said just a few months ago that he doesn’t see a problem with gay priests as long as they don’t act on it. How exactly would anyone know they were gay anyway in that case?

Beats me, I belive it comes from Benedict’s “findings” that gays were more likely to molest children.

C) Catholic teaching says its better if a child has both BIOLOGICAL parents available. But it doesn’t require two parents (what would happen to widows/widowers?) and it doesn’t require biological parents (it’s been arranging adoptions for years.) So while I could see a Catholic adoption agency being hesitant to place a child with a single parent, I’m not aware of any actual prohibition against single Catholics adopting… are you??

I am actually, have you ever read any history concerning the Psuedo-Theocratic rule over in the Irish free state? For…was it two decades after the British were expelled, I’m not certain…Under pressure from Catholic teaching, any family where a spouse left or one of them died would have their children confiscated and placed in orphanages. All families were to be modeled on the holy family, and any one found lacking was a threat to the childs soul.

There’s a very famous case about a little girl (Evelyn Doyle) and her brothers who had this happen to her, It was made into a film a few years ago and she later released a biography about it. Hers is the single most famous case, but a similar event also happened for my grandmother; she was taken from her father because her mother died and he did not remarry.

I am not aware if Catholic Teaching has changed on this matter (On a formal level I suspect it has not, we are still waiting to hear an apology for the Edgardo Montara case after all), but I’m sure single parents across Ireland are relived it no longer possesses the clout in goverment to reinstall that legislation.

 

[Rixx]

Who on earth told you that? That’s the strangest advice I’ve ever heard.

The priest of the parish I used to frequent while I was at university, he’s since been promoted.

I got a rather stern warning one day a few Sundays after I began attending after he asked about my living arrangements (I never admitted to being homosexual, but I am rather effeminate, it’s not hard to tell).

I’ve no idea who told the others that, I would assume it would be someone from their own parishes.

 

[Lamentation]

I stopped reading after seeing that. So are you really saying Gay people can NOT be “called” to marriage? Can they really ONLY have platonic relationships their whole lives. sigh
Perhaps that cross is being forced upon them by the intolerant religious right.

There are no gay people, the same as there are no straight people. There are people; people who happen to have attractions to the same gender. People who experience this are called to deny this aspect of themselves, the same way we are all called to deny our own sinfulness.

As to whether or not people with attractions to the same gender are called to marriage, that is between them and God. If they are called to marriage, then one also has to remember that marriage is between a man and woman, two uniting into one flesh.

 

[PennyinCanada]

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

---

So should I say to my son or daughter “you are called to chastity.”

Thus you:

1. Can NEVER get married (since marriage is between a man and a woman)
2. NEVER have sex (since Homosexual Sex is a sin and abomination unto God)
3. NEVER masturbate (again, another sin)
4. NEVER adopt a child of your own
5. NEVER become a Priest

But…I accept and love you.

So what’s wrong with " they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection." ?? This is the calling for every person born on this planet.

I don’t like your approach at all, listing off the “never never never” stuff. Let’s say if I had a handicapped child, in a wheel chair, and I wanted to encourage and lift them up to be their best, would I give them this pep talk, that for the rest of their life they can never ride a bike, go swimming, or dancing, or gymnastics, or play baseball. What kind of sad and pathetic pep talk would that be? If one day they told me how broken their heart is because other kids could do those things, wouldn’t my heart be broken with them? Of course. Would the words “I accept and love you” ring hollow? Of course I would mean that with all my heart, that I accept and love you. Don’t imply that those words would be hollow for a parent that must accept the reality of their child’s limitations. We all have limitations in this world, all of us.

With every child, a parent could work to find their talents, to find God’s plan in their life. That means that some doors would be closed to them and in that case, we still move forward. To dwell on what they can’t do is not serving them at all.

Our Blessed Mother at Fatima asked for prayers and sacrifices for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world in 1917. If we started our day with this intention, to offer what ever duties are ours for the day for this, we would be working for the kingdom of God. This is a good place to start, and it’s no small duty. It is to grow in holiness according to our state in life. And guess what, there are a lot of Catholics who never marry, who will never be a priest, who never will have children. It doesn’t mean they do not have something to contribute regarding bringing a blessing down on this world. Your very question somehow hints at that. Stop focusing on what people of same sex attraction can’t do and start to understand that we are here to bring down blessings on this planet. Holiness is available to anyone who wants it. A person plugged into God can do amazing things.

I had rather one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I had rather lie at the threshhold of the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. Psalm 84:11

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI banned “Deep Seated” Homosexuals (i.e: Non Hetrosexual or Bisexual men) from the priesthood, another Catholic can provide the link but it is made clear under no condition are they to be ordained. It is also hinted that part of that reason is because homosexual men are a threat to children.

The bolded portion is not true. The question of what constitutes “deep-seated” tendencies is a vexed one, and I wish the Church would clarify it. The emphasis, at any rate, is on affective maturity (a rather unclear term), not on opposite-sex attraction. The Church does not demand that priestly candidates find women erotically appealing.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I’ll only speak for myself in this case but as a boy (I’m in my late twenties now) it was…fairly clear from my mannerisms and interests I was not hetrosexual and again, it was made clear to me on a few occasions that the only place I could have in society was as a Priest.

Now that option is gone, what are homosexuals supposed to do exactly? If we remain alone we’re assumed to be creepy pedophiles, but if we live with another single person of either gender or attempt to start a family again we’re either promoting scandal or are devil-worshipping perverts.

It seems the Catholic church would rather I remain indoors during the daytime away from civilized eyes and only come out during limited ours after dark once decent people and children are inside their homes.

That’s assuming I have a major mental illness which neither I nor modern medicine would agree with.

This isn’t true, I was told that living with another hetrosexual man while I was at university (a good freind of mine) was an occasion of sin, promoted scandal and that I should find another place to live. I know of several other Catholics who were told the same.

It is unCatholic to assume a single gay person is a “creepy pedophile”, it is also illogical.

I wish they would, but I’ve noted several posters on this forum alone who belive just that and I personally think the Catholic Church half encourages them. Take that Bishop over in Illinois last year who tried to exorcise “The gay demons” from the state, or that Ugandan ArchBishop who was practically cheerleading the Death to Homosexuals legislation.

Beats me, I belive it comes from Benedict’s “findings” that gays were more likely to molest children.

I am actually, have you ever read any history concerning the Psuedo-Theocratic rule over in the Irish free state? For…was it two decades after the British were expelled, I’m not certain…Under pressure from Catholic teaching, any family where a spouse left or one of them died would have their children confiscated and placed in orphanages. All families were to be modeled on the holy family, and any one found lacking was a threat to the childs soul.

There’s a very famous case about a little girl (Evelyn Doyle) and her brothers who had this happen to her, It was made into a film a few years ago and she later released a biography about it. Hers is the single most famous case, but a similar event also happened for my grandmother; she was taken from her father because her mother died and he did not remarry.

I am not aware if Catholic Teaching has changed on this matter (On a formal level I suspect it has not, we are still waiting to hear an apology for the Edgardo Montara case after all), but I’m sure single parents across Ireland are relived it no longer possesses the clout in goverment to reinstall that legislation.

I would like to point out that the English and Welsh bishops pushed for the abolition of sodomy laws in the 1950s.

So what’s wrong with " they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection." ?? This is the calling for every person born on this planet.

I don’t like your approach at all, listing off the “never never never” stuff. Let’s say if I had a handicapped child, in a wheel chair, and I wanted to encourage and lift them up to be their best, would I give them this pep talk, that for the rest of their life they can never ride a bike, go swimming, or dancing, or gymnastics, or play baseball. What kind of sad and pathetic pep talk would that be? If one day they told me how broken their heart is because other kids could do those things, wouldn’t my heart be broken with them? Of course. Would the words “I accept and love you” ring hollow? Of course I would mean that with all my heart, that I accept and love you. Don’t imply that those words would be hollow for a parent that must accept the reality of their child’s limitations. We all have limitations in this world, all of us.

With every child, a parent could work to find their talents, to find God’s plan in their life. That means that some doors would be closed to them and in that case, we still move forward. To dwell on what they can’t do is not serving them at all.

Our Blessed Mother at Fatima asked for prayers and sacrifices for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world in 1917. If we started our day with this intention, to offer what ever duties are ours for the day for this, we would be working for the kingdom of God. This is a good place to start, and it’s no small duty. It is to grow in holiness according to our state in life. And guess what, there are a lot of Catholics who never marry, who will never be a priest, who never will have children. It doesn’t mean they do not have something to contribute regarding bringing a blessing down on this world. Your very question somehow hints at that. Stop focusing on what people of same sex attraction can’t do and start to understand that we are here to bring down blessings on this planet. Holiness is available to anyone who wants it. A person plugged into God can do amazing things.

**

A vocation of no is all that many Catholics seem to offer LGBT people.

 

[Rixx]

It is unCatholic to assume a single gay person is a “creepy pedophile”, it is also illogical.

One would think, but that’s what everyone used to crack jokes about one poor guy in my former parish, I shan’t mention his name but he did die celibate; a thankless endeavor.Secular society does poke fun at celibates I agree, but not even close to the same level of venom religious can.

I would like to point out that the English and Welsh bishops pushed for the abolition of sodomy laws in the 1950s.

And we’re grateful for that, although this does point out a hole in Catholic teaching. Isn’t it a grave sin to support in any way acts that are morally evil and an attack upon the sanctity of Catholic marriage (i.e: Anal sex?).

I’m grateful I can no longer be prosecuted for being married to another man but this again runs contrary to Catholic social teaching, as espoused by Benedict XVI at least.

A vocation of no is all that many Catholics seem to offer LGBT people.

Agreed, at least when I was growing up I had the option of becoming a priest; had I remained in the church the only vocation on offer would have been to be the black sheep hate figure who sat on the back pew.

I can tell you now, most LGBT will not accept this. They’ll leave like I did, sometimes in deep distress and with trauma depending how involved they were but they won’t hang around. Some with a great interest in Theology will convert as I did, but most will turn to Atheism.

 

[PennyinCanada]

A vocation of no is all that many Catholics seem to offer LGBT people.

I am very happy to say that your understanding of vocation can be expanded!

Example…
Saint Thomas More was an English lawyer, social philosopher, author, statesman and noted Renaissance humanist. He was an important councillor to Henry VIII and Lord Chancellor from October 1529 to 16 May 1532 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_More

Saint Francis of Assisi was an Italian Catholic friar and preacher. He founded the men’s Order of Friars Minor, the women’s Order of St. Clare, and the Third Order of Saint Francis for men and women not able to live the lives of itinerant preachers, followed by the early members of the Order of Friars Minor, or the monastic lives of the Poor Clares. Though he was never ordained to the Catholic priesthood, Francis is one of the most venerated religious figures in history. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

Saint Monica (AD 331[2] – 387), also known as Monica of Hippo, (Be. Timaniket) was an early Christian saint and the mother of St. Augustine of Hippo. She is remembered and honoured in most Christian denominations, albeit on different feast days, for her outstanding Christian virtues, particularly the suffering caused by her husband’s adultery, and her prayerful life dedicated to the reformation of her son, who wrote extensively of her pious acts and life with her in his Confessions. Popular Christian legends recall Saint Monica weeping every night for her son Augustine. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Monica

St. Anne, the mother of the Blessed Mother…St. Anne is the Patron Saint of housewives, pregnant women, especially those in labor, cabinet makers and minors.

We are called to holiness in what ever state of life we are living. The world needs Catholic doctors, lawyers, nurses, carpenters, mechanics, teachers! We are to be salt and light to the world, bringing Christ to our families, our neighborhoods, our workplaces. Shepherds do not make sheep, sheep make sheep. Shepherds take care of the flock given to them.

Amazing people do not have to be married or have children or be a priest to be amazing. Mother Teresa and her sisters are a wonderful example of Christ’s hands and feet. Jesus in the sacraments gave them strength and courage to follow a very difficult vocation. Please do not say any longer the Church is full of ‘no’s’. It takes faith and courage to say YES to God, step out of the boat and walk on water. You come to God with your fish and loaf and He feeds the five thousand. Stop saying that the Church is full of ‘no’s’. It’s looking for people to say yes!