Parents role in a situation

[rosejmj]

What would telling them even do? Would you threaten to kick them out if they spend the night? Nothing wrong with teaching her your beliefs and the why but where is the limit in enforcing it especially if they want to maintain a good relationship with their daughter and not push her away

 

[Wozza]

Thorolfr:

Hopefully, one of their priorities is to help their child get an education so that they can succeed in life.

Their first priority is to help them get to heaven. Everything else needs to be seen through that lens.

And how does telling a child that they can no longer treat your house as a home acheive that?

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

f a parent insists that sex outside marriage IS destructive behaviour then they’d be wrong.

They would be right according to our Faith. All sin is destructive behaviour. The destruction may be something that can be repaired, however, it is always going to leave a scar, a trace of that destruction. There is no such thing as a benign sin.

So a couple who have sex the week before they get married is going to ‘leave a scar’. There will be ‘a trace of that destruction’. And the same will happen to a devoted couple in their seventies who have lived with each other for decades but were never married. And apparently my wife and I are scarred and carry traces of destruction somewhere.

Perhaps you can tell me how I recognise these scars.

 

[Wozza]

It is OK to choose roommates who share your values and to choose not to have ones who don’t.

If that was in any way comparable to the situation as described then you might have a valid point. But it isn’t, so you don’t.

 

[PennyinCanada]

They don’t have to take any responsibility for any of the consequences that may result from sex

When you say ‘they’ are you referring to the parents?
I’ve seen a lot of families who had teen daughters get pregnant and then the teen daughter and baby live with mom and dad. They haven’t finished their education, they don’t have a job, they don’t have a spouse. Where else are they going to go?

Dream of finishing your education, and maybe meeting the guy of your dreams, getting married. Then the big announcement that the first baby is on the way. There is no grief or heartache there. No regrets doing it that way.

You know, I don’t care if you think having sex is worth the risk. It really doesn’t bother me if you get an std. Not going to lose sleep over it. It’s the 60 million abortions in the US that I find heart wrenching. I don’t understand why a person in their right mind doesn’t look at that and say, No way, not going there. Not touching that with a 10 foot pole. I have places to go and things to do.

 

[vz71]

Perhaps you can tell me how I recognise these scars.

The lack of recognition of what should be is one thing to look for.

One can see results of this throughout society.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Bold mine:

1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused. Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”

 

[PetraG]

If that was in any way comparable to the situation as described then you might have a valid point. But it isn’t, so you don’t.

It is exactly comparable. The parents have their ideas on what they want in an adult roommate. She can be that kind of a roommate or else she can find different roommates, roommates who either have the same moral code that she has or that don’t care what her moral code is and have moral codes themselves that she herself finds tolerable. Please don’t tell me that nobody cares what their roommates do when they’re not actually in the house no matter what that entails! They do. C’mon. Let us be honest. They totally do, and people do change roommates because of that kind of incompatability.

These parents are not making different rules for their daughter than they would if this were the wife’s brother or the husband’s co-worker living with them. These are not the same standards everyone would have for an adult roommate, but it is totally reasonable that the parents would not take on a roommate who chooses the kinds of things the daughter is choosing. Adult family members do that kind of thing all of the time, but if they ask to live with you, you can say, “I don’t think that would work. We are a bit too different. You make your own choices, and that’s your choice, but we’re not OK with it in our house.”

"As for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” Josh 24:15

 

[Annie]

Most people who are about to get married live on their own and not in their parents’ home. Moreover, most people who do not have sex before marriage do not suddenly decide to do so days away from their wedding date.

In the situation we are discussing, the child is living in his or her parents’ home being supported by them while going to school.

We do not know the age of said child, could be 18 or could be 22.

We do not know if there are younger siblings in the house.

We do not know if said child is a fairly responsible person or not.

There is a lot we do not know.

All most of us are saying is that house owners have a right to make the rules in their own house, and people have a right not to live in that house if they find the rules onerous.

And that Catholic parents do see sex before or outside of marriage as gravely sinful and thus dangerous to the person who commits that sin, and would therefore desire to protect their child from that danger.

And it could be that said child does not want to have sex, and uses the parents’ rule to explain why she will not have sex. She wouldn’t be the first to do that.

 

[Wozza]

These parents are not making different rules for their daughter than they would if this were the wife’s brother or the husband’s co-worker living with them.

Have you written that correctly? It reads as if you would have the same rules in place for a brother-in-law. Surely not.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Perhaps you can tell me how I recognise these scars.

The lack of recognition of what should be is one thing to look for.

One can see results of this throughout society.

You are saying that the bad effects of me doing something which you say will have bad effects is me not recognising that what I am doing will have bad effects.

Hmm. I was looking for something more concrete.

Let’s say we have two couples, one who has sex before they are married and one who doesn’t. All other things being equal, how do we tell which is which? If there are bad effects then how do these bad effects manifest themselves?

 

[vz71]

You are saying that the bad effects of me doing something which you say will have bad effects is me not recognising that what I am doing will have bad effects.

The scar is an overall deafening of that which tells us wrong from right.

 

[vz71]

All other things being equal, how do we tell which is which? If there are bad effects then how do these bad effects manifest themselves?

You expect to peer into someone’s soul?

 

[Wozza]

Most people who are about to get married live on their own and not in their parents’ home. Moreover, most people who do not have sex before marriage do not suddenly decide to do so days away from their wedding date.

And that Catholic parents do see sex before or outside of marriage as gravely sinful and thus dangerous to the person who commits that sin, and would therefore desire to protect their child from that danger.

Whether people decide to have sex days before their wedding or not is up to them. But your argument is that it’s wrong. Presumably the couple in their seventies likewise. Personally I can’t see any problem whatsoever. But it’s a teaching of the church so rules are rules. The problem being that in some cases the rules make no sense. So people ignore them.

And you protect your daughter by sending her out of the home? Doesn’t seem like a great idea to me.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

All other things being equal, how do we tell which is which? If there are bad effects then how do these bad effects manifest themselves?

You expect to peer into someone’s soul?

Yeah. Mine. I see no problem. Are you suggesting you can see into mine and tell me that there is?

Wozza:

You are saying that the bad effects of me doing something which you say will have bad effects is me not recognising that what I am doing will have bad effects.

The scar is an overall deafening of that which tells us wrong from right.

I know what is wrong. It is something that will cause harm. So you have to tell me what harm is being caused.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Perhaps you can tell me how I recognise these scars.

One can see results of this throughout society.

This is a fallacy of composition. Someone drowned at the beach therefore swimming at the beach is wrong.

 

[PetraG]

Have you written that correctly? It reads as if you would have the same rules in place for a brother-in-law. Surely not.

I wouldn’t have stricter rules for one of my adult children than for my brother or my father-in-law or my grandmother, no. If they considered sex before marriage one of their rights as an adult, they’d need to find a different roommate. Honestly, if I were living with them as widow, for example, I’d expect either of my sons would have that kind of limits on me…that is, that they wouldn’t cope with it if their mom were out sleeping with her boyfriend while also living under their roof. I think it would be, “Mom, I love you, but I think you need a place of your own.” I would accept that as a reasonable boundary.

I would also not set stricter rules on my children than I would set for myself. For instance, I don’t expect my sons to tell me their whereabouts when they’re living with us that I wouldn’t expect that they would expect from me. I don’t disappear for whole weekends without telling them where I’m going and when I expect to return. If they were making dinner, I’d give them an idea of how likely it was that I’d be home for dinner. I don’t expect more details from them than I would think they’d expect from me. People have different standards in different households, but you don’t put a double standard on another adult and then expect them to think you see them as an adult.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

Have you written that correctly? It reads as if you would have the same rules in place for a brother-in-law. Surely not.

I wouldn’t have stricter rules for one of my adult children than for my brother or my father-in-law or my grandmother, no. If they considered sex before marriage one of their rights as an adult, they’d need to find a different roommate. Honestly, if I were living with them, I’d expect they’d have that kind of limits on me…that is, that they wouldn’t cope with it if their mom were out sleeping around while living under their roof. I think it would be, “Mom, I love you, but I think you need a place of your own.”

I’m having some difficulty coming to terms with this. You are saying that if your bil wanted to stay over for a few days to catch up with your husband and you knew he was having sex in a committed relationship then you would tell your husband: ‘Nope, he’s not staying under this roof’.

And even more wierdly, if a widow finds a second chance for love and sleeps with her intended new husband, the daughter would say that she needs to move out?

I think that following what the church teaches is admirable. But imposing those teachings on others to the detriment of family relationships isn’t.

 

[PetraG]

Whether people decide to have sex days before their wedding or not is up to them.

The parents are Catholic. It is reasonable to believe that they accept the premise that the Catholic faith is true.

CCC 2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

It is reasonable for a Catholic couple to decide they’re not going to be silent and tolerant when a member of their own household is indulging in behaviors gravely contrary to her dignity and the dignity of her boyfriend. They’re not going to correct her in the same way as if she were still a child, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to tolerate whatever she does provided she doesn’t actually do it in their house while they are present.

 

[PetraG]

I’m having some difficulty coming to terms with this. You are saying that if your bil wanted to stay over for a few days to catch up with your husband and you knew he was having sex in a committed relationship then you would tell your husband: ‘Nope, he’s not staying under this roof’.

And even more wierdly, if a widow finds a second chance for love and sleeps with her intended new husband, the daughter would say that she needs to move out?

I think that following what the church teaches is admirable. But imposing those teachings on others to the detriment of family relationships isn’t.

I don’t consider houseguests to be members of the household. They aren’t expected to do chores, they aren’t expected to be in the same kind of compliance with our values as one of us.

Again: We are Catholics. We don’t see fornication as “a second chance for love” any more than we see smoking pot as a form of relaxation or binge drinking as a legitimate way that normal people use alcohol. We don’t think dogfighting is a time-honored sport, either. We don’t think prostitution or exotic dancing is a legitimate occupation. We have different morals than some of our neighbors do. Why is that so hard to understand?

There is no reason that having this kind of standards should be “to the detriment of family relationships.” Why should it? Surely adults can accept that some people run their households in a different way than they do. How hard is that? Why can’t we give our family members that measure of respect? Honestly, sometimes I think some people don’t understand the difference between tolerance and utter moral relativism.