Part 2: Vocations to love & relationship for faithful LGBT Christians

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DarkLight said:
but what I saw of it seemed very much focused on a certain place in faith, and I don’t think everyone is there.
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I’ve never really thought of that.
DarkLight said:
Most of us aren’t meant to be hermits in the desert. But the message we get is often “don’t get too close to anyone because it might end up being about sex.” Even when we talk about normal human desires for friendship and companionship a lot of people seem to suspect that we’re really talking about sex somehow.
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What they say is a fear I have. If I get close to any guy as a friend, I begin to develop feelings that endangers the friendship (but I keep it in most of the time, I don’t let anyone (most of the time) know I’ve fallen for a friend). It sometimes is hard to deal with.

I agree. We need friendships, people to love and for them to love us.
DarkLight said:
I think this problem far predates any sort of LGBT movement. Our churches bought into the lie that society told us about how sex is an all-encompassing force and that natural friendships are really secret covers for sexual expression. So in trying to preserve chastity, we end up suppressing relationships that weren’t sexual in the first place out of fear that they might some day have sexual desire involved, while pushing people to fulfill all desires for human support and companionship within marriage.
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I agree 😫
 
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theCardinalbird said:
I’ve never really thought of that.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if age plays a part. Hormones tend to be turned up to their highest in the teen years and through the early 20’s. At the same time, as you get older fewer and fewer of your peers are single, and it’s more noticeable that you still are. And even if you are single your focus tends to shift a bit - I find myself thinking about “settling down” and where my place in my community is much more.
 
DarkLight said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if age plays a part. Hormones tend to be turned up to their highest in the teen years and through the early 20’s. At the same time, as you get older fewer and fewer of your peers are single, and it’s more noticeable that you still are. And even if you are single your focus tends to shift a bit - I find myself thinking about “settling down” and where my place in my community is much more.
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That’s true
 
Yes; don’t worry about responding to me. The issue is to not fall prey to the lies of the LGBT movement which only ends up imprisoning people’s mindset. We see this happen when people start defining themselves by LGBT-based theology. Instead of staying who you are, let grace transform you; though it is not possible without faith.
 
Here’s my question - transform into what?

Because it ends up sounding an awful lot like the unspoken last part of that is “into a person who desires a heterosexual marriage.”

Married people, priests, religious, these people aren’t told to just pray and let God transform them. That is an important part of it, but they’re also told to lean on each other for support, to ask others for advice, to look to the example of those before them. With those who aren’t in those categories (call those who find themselves called to neither marriage nor the religious life what you will) it often seems the answer is just pray and aim at a goal that’s never got any substance to it other than vague spiritual language. And if you don’t like it you get a condescending pat on the head.
 
That’s just the thing. It seems like you’re either being intentionally nasty to these people or you’re being a cheerleader for the sinful tendencies. It doesn’t have to be either way. You can still treat the person with the utmost respect and even love them while trying to dissuade them from sinful practices.
 
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help1 said:
You can still treat the person with the utmost respect and even love them while trying to dissuade them from sinful practices.
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I would say this involves not accusing faithful catholics with same-sex attraction of secret collaboration or something. Nor of being unwitting plants.
 
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A special ministry - can it lead anywhere else as ghetto-izing the struggling gay people? A ministry for singles is one thing. If some want to discuss their gay attractions so be it. But why separate people based on their wrong attractions?
Is there a special ministry for thieves for example? Or a special ministry for rapers? These people who have either done or wanted to do these things - do they get a special ministry?
I am not implying that SSA people are thieves and rapers just that if they chose to desire a special ministry they put themselves in a lower position than people who have actually done graver sins. And forget theft and rape pick any other reccurent sin. Imagine them having a special prayer session just for themselves. Where is the secret of confession? Gay people deserve as much respect as anyone else who finds out they are prone to sin.
 
Addicts do this exact thing in 12 step programs, though, and it can be very effective for them. Of course, one important aspect of those programs is that they are anonymous and confidentiality is protected. But it can be very, very helpful to discuss your trials with people who have “been there, done that” and see that the sinful inclination can be successfully resisted.
 
help1 said:
. It seems like you’re either being intentionally nasty to these people or you’re being a cheerleader for the sinful tendencies
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Don’t be silly; I’m simply telling people to not to build on LGBT ideology or let yourself be defined by their false gospel. Again, love the sinner, hate the sin, and unmask the agenda that brainwashed people.
 
I wasn’t accusing you of anything…by “you’re” I meant something else, it’s hard to explain but in the English-speaking world we use it in a few ways…hypothetical…
 
DarkLight said:
transform into what ?
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A new self, a new mindset, a new being. Into what every human being who ever hopes to ever enter heaven is called to become, namely to become a saint. A process of uprooting everything from our hearts and minds that separate us from God. Thus merely following commandments but not changing the self is a pointless endeavor. That’s exactly what the religious self-righteous Pharisees did. I keep posting this link, maybe you will take the time to listen:
LISTEN NOW
 
Gab123 said:
A new self, a new mindset, a new being. Into what every human being who ever hopes to ever enter heaven is called to become, namely to become a saint. A process of uprooting everything from our hearts and minds that separate us from God. Thus merely following commandments but not changing the self is a pointless endeavor. That’s exactly what the religious self-righteous Pharisees did. I keep posting this link, maybe you will take the time to listen:
LISTEN NOW
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But you haven’t given a single reason why any of this is at all relevant to anything other than a false, insulting stereotype of “gay people” that you seem to have gotten far more from watching too much TV and youtube links and not from actually listening to anyone here. You’re waving vague spiritual words, but every single time anyone asks for any help at all getting there you tell us we’re not following the commandments right.

If you told anyone other than the LGBT people what you said, if you said that to married people or to those celibate for other reasons, it would clearly be recognized as an insult.
 
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DarkLight said:
But you haven’t given a single reason why any of this is at all relevant to anything other than a false, insulting stereotype of “gay people
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Again, the point is very simple; Stop building on LGBT theology. You don’t have see your life through gay-colored glasses.
DarkLight said:
If you told anyone other than the LGBT people what you said, if you said that to married people or to those celibate for other reasons, it would clearly be recognized as an insult.
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Everything I have said applies to everyone, single or married from all walks of life. I think the problem is that people don’t understand the point of the gospel…
 
Gab123 said:
Everything I have said applies to everyone, single or married from all walks of life. I think the problem is that people don’t understand the point of the gospel…
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Yes, it does, but that doesn’t mean it’s the be all and end all and those asking for more specific support are just not understanding the gospel.

That’s what we’re saying - that those with other struggles can and do reach out for and receive specifics beyond just “trust God and be more holy.” But those of us in this situation, all we get is endless dithering and accusations that we’re not using the right words (and I have yet to see anyone suggest better ones) and suggestions that seeking for anything practical is somehow an excuse for hiding sin.

The insult isn’t that it’s false. It’s that you’re doing the moral equivalent of offering a times table to those trying to do algebra, and lecturing on the importance of the times table to those saying that doesn’t help.
 
And also asking people to do something that the Church doesn’t ask, doesn’t require.

Gab has made up their own spirituality regarding gays and lesbians. It’s not even based on a well known pastoral approach. Totally their agenda and idea, nothing authentically Catholic about it.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Gab has made up their own spirituality regarding gays and lesbians. It’s not even based on a well known pastoral approach.
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Don’t be silly; the New Testament and the Catechism is there for everyone to read. The problem is the brainwashing going on and the agenda-driven activism such as the New Reformation Project that aims to convert you to their false gospel…
 
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Can you site chapers and sections of the NT and CCC that refer to this explicitly?

Are you a proponent of conversion therapy?
 
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