Part 2: Vocations to love & relationship for faithful LGBT Christians

[catholic1seeks]

The problem is that you start off with the notion that there is such a creature as a “gay Christian” that “cannot have” a relationship with the opposite sex. The very core of your problem right now is your self-identification with LGBT propaganda.

I have already said again and again what I mean by gay. I mean “same-sex attraction.” You don’t think there’s such a Christian with same-sex attraction? Strange.

I have plenty of “relationships” with the “opposite sex.” I’m not sure what you mean. OH, you mean sex? Well no, that’s covered by the “same-sex attraction”.

If I thought I could so easily enter into (Catholic/heterosexual) marriage, I wouldn’t have this thread, now would I?

The problem is that many people find religion, but the haven’t found Jesus Christ.

And one sign of this is an obsession with doctrine, about mere letter of the law…

This thread already assumes the Catholic doctrine, yet you obsess over it.

Lastly, if you don’t want to accept the reality that gay Christians — Christians with SSA — really exist, then go ahead answer the question as if it’s regarding all single people in the church who can NEVER marry. For you haven’t seemed to even address that, either.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Thank you to all the participants who, when posting, nuance your replies by clarifying that you are not gay/have SSA, or even aren’t that familiar with LGBT people in general.

For it does make a difference, as is REALLY apparent to me by how some people perceive this thread’s question and then proceed to reply.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

I am not intelligent enough to know whether this is sarcastic or not.

 

[catholic1seeks]

No, I’m grateful some people are humble enough to reply with a grain of salt, since if you’re not gay nor know any close LGBT people, then it will be much harder to put yourself in “another’s shoes.”

Now what IS ironic are those participants who ardently respond over and over again, as if they know more about being gay than their fellow gay brothers and sisters.

 

[Gab123]

And one sign of this is an obsession with doctrine, about mere letter of the law…
This thread already assumes the Catholic doctrine, yet you obsess over it.

You’re missing the point… At the heart of the problem is when a Catholic proposes a question about Catholic vocations while building on a worldly foundation of LGBT-movement definitions. Asking the question in terms of “faithful LGBT Christians” is is starting off on the LGBTTQQ lies. So it’s a matter of building on the right foundation. As Aquinas would say, an error in the beginning is an error indeed…

So instead of defining one’s self by cultural rot propaganda, one has to build on the rock of truth, not the sands of the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transexual Two -Spirit Queer Questioning Pansexual distortions of human sexuality; because if you do, you will always be trapped inside that psychological prison. There is no special vocation in the Catholic Church for “Catholic transexuals” or men who are sexually turned on by other men; such concepts miss the whole point of what it means to follow Christ. The vocation for all is one of death to the self.

answer the question as if it’s regarding all single people in the church who can NEVER marry.

Again, who says you can never marry? God created women for men; as a man you are free to marry a woman; but you will have to learn to love her for who she is, the companion God made for man.

You don’t think there’s such a Christian with same-sex attraction?

Yes, of course; but one has to be careful to phrase the issue in terms of what is happening today in the context of culture, politics, and activism that is brainwashing the naive and conditioned masses; it’s all part of the Culture of Death’s drive to redefine marriage, human sexuality and the very nature of what it means to be a human being. When you start filling your mind with the false LGBTTQQ terminology, definitions and false gospel, you begin seeing the world through LGBTTQQ-colored glasses, and end up being seduced by the lies and spreading the lies like an infection onto others.

One has to realize that there are three separate issues: hormonal imbalances, psychological disorders, and sexual perversions, and each issue has to be treated accordingly. The problem is that the spirit behind the Culture of Death fuses all three in order to justify and normalize homosexual acts and usher entire generations of human beings into living and believing a lie…

 

[drac16]

I don’t believe it’s possible to be a transexual person who is faithful to Christian teachings. Therefore, your question fails before you even got started because your question has an assumption; the assumption that it’s possible for a person to live a transexual/transgender lifestyle and be a christian.

People who are transexuals are not christians. There are no exceptions. You may say “Well, God made them that way”, and I would say that you didn’t get that from the Bible (you got it from LGBT propaganda).

 

[Thorolfr]

Again, who says you can never marry? God created women for men; as a man you are free to marry a woman; but you will have to learn to love her for who she is, the companion God made for man.

I thought that impotence would be an impediment to a Catholic marriage. I think that a lot of gay men would be impotent if they tried to have sex with a woman, so they might not be free to marry one.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

Now that I think of it isn’t this thread focusing more on the L and the G than the B and the T.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Again, who says you can never marry? God created women for men; as a man you are free to marry a woman; but you will have to learn to love her for who she is, the companion God made for man.

I just want to say I would not want to spend my life with someone who had to “learn” to love me, who had to muster the desire to make love to me. Please don’t ask people to be ex-gay sex rehab. Marriage is hard enough, don’t ya think?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

There is no special vocation in the Catholic Church for “Catholic transexuals” or men who are sexually turned on by other men;

We know that…duhhhhhh. Why do you continuously derail these threads and misdirect the conversation by making statements as though you are addressing the OP or another post? You are actually introducing ideas, not responding to them.

 

[Thorolfr]

Gab123:

Again, who says you can never marry? God created women for men; as a man you are free to marry a woman; but you will have to learn to love her for who she is, the companion God made for man.

I just want to say I would not want to spend my life with someone who had to “learn” to love me, who had to muster the desire to make love to me. Please don’t ask people to be ex-gay sex rehab. Marriage is hard enough, don’t ya think?

I know quite a few gay men of an older generation who married women when they were young, many of them probably hoping that this would somehow make them straight. But it didn’t make them straight and the marriages failed. I know from talking to some of these men, that they truly loved their wives but love was not enough to overcome the lack of sexual attraction. A few have remained friends with their ex-wives. But other wives were utterly devastated. The odds are against such a marriage succeeding.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Yeah, I was just thinking of marriages that failed. I’m not really sympathetic when infidelity is a part of the reason, so I think it’s better if people don’t pretend to be something they are not; nor should others expect them to lie to themselves and other about who they are.

 

[Gab123]

I think it’s better if people don’t pretend to be something they are not; nor should others expect them to lie to themselves and other about who they are.

The problem is when a movement is lying to people and telling them who they are and must be. It’s contrary to the gospel. “But that is not the way you learned Christ!— assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.”

The problem with building on LGBT labels and definitions is that it creates mental blocks and does not allow people to uproot the causes of the disorder, and instead urges one to embrace it… it’s a very subtle lie…

Why do you continuously derail these threads and misdirect the conversation by making statements as though you are addressing the OP or another post? You are actually introducing ideas, not responding to them.

Again, the problem is that the OP is asking for ideas on how to build upon LGBT definitions, when the LGBT gospel is completely opposite to the true gospel; the LGBT message is “be who you are” “embrace yourself”; whereas the true gospel preaches “die to yourself” “be transformed” “change”.

Now that I think of it isn’t this thread focusing more on the L and the G than the B and the T.

The OP asked for relationship vocation ideas for “LGBT Christians” as people are automatically sentenced to being defined by the world. The whole point of Christianity is to be transformed.

 

[Fauken]

“die to yourself”

I sincerely doubt that entails marrying someone to whom you have zero attraction for. If you have no desire to have children with that spouse, you have no business marrying. Forcing them will not help. And again, you’re not listening.

I hate to say it, but this topic should just stop. It’s going the same way as the other one. Productive discussion will never occur so long as someone keeps derailing it.

 

[theCardinalbird]

There is still Courage on the table…

 

[help1]

There’s definitely a place…I myself am Asexual (and I must admit, Homoromantic), which is sometimes lumped with the LGBT, understandably. Furthermore I’ve struggled with gender identity a lot in my life. I’m in a way thankful for the experience of gender dysphoria because I was able to meet so many people along the way and really develop an understanding. I’m sadly not an example of someone that has been “cured” of it as…I still struggle with it…but that’s a cross to bear. I’m grateful for my getting to meet other people like that and really develop an understanding. I’d love to minister to them. I really am passionate about this because I’m coming right out of this culture.

LGBT people might not have the full equality many of them want in a Christian culture. They might not get that…but they should get full acceptance of who they are (how to deal with it is the issue) and they should be treated with great care. So many of us often forget Christ’s most emphasized commandment when we turn to LGBT people. Heaven only knows why, but I would assume it’s some human instinct to try to stomp on those with less power than us, we may think back to when we were bullied as kids and that makes it hard to resist the temptation to be, well, nasty to people that can’t really defend themselves (minorities)…but this must be overcome if we are to be followers of Christ. It’s of central importance that it is. As I said, it is the most emphasized commandment. I fear for the souls of those that do not treat other human beings with care and dignity.

 

[Gab123]

I sincerely doubt that entails marrying someone to whom you have zero attraction for. If you have no desire to have children with that spouse, you have no business marrying. Forcing them will not help. And again, you’re not listening.

So don’t get married and be single then. But drop the self-identification with the LGBT definitions, it will only usher one into depression and zero spiritual growth. But yes, I am listening; and what I am hearing is that people are starting off building on the LGBT error of self-identification with these labels that create mental blocks. Just listen to former gays who went on to have families with the opposite sex; they speak about the lie of the labels. No, God did not make transexuals, and does not have special vocations for transexuals other than the Christian vocation; men sexually turned on by male bodies has to be addressed in the context of a disorder; these are psychological conditions that have to be treated psychologically; when one falls into spiritual darkness and commits sexual sins, then these have to be treated spiritually. the problem again is the way the OP question has been posed.

So instead of reminding as is and trying to “find a vocation” in the Catholic Church, discover the true freedom of emptying one’s self. Here is one fellow who speaks about his journey in and out of the “gay” label:

 

[Gab123]

I fear for the souls of those that do not treat other human beings with care and dignity.

Yes indeed. the problem is when people confuse “affirming theology” with respect and compassion. If one wants to build on Christ one has to build on Christ, not on LGBTTQQ theology.
Here is Bishop Shen speaking about “social slobberers” and false compassion:

 

[BlueMaxx]

Homoromantic

Great, now another new subsect to keep track of…

 

[DarkLight]

I do think courage does a good ministry, but what I saw of it seemed very much focused on a certain place in faith, and I don’t think everyone is there.

I would say the majority of my struggles have been dealing with loneliness in a culture that sees the cure for loneliness as getting married, and has a lot of suspicion that unmarried people are sexually licentious.

Most of us aren’t meant to be hermits in the desert. But the message we get is often “don’t get too close to anyone because it might end up being about sex.” Even when we talk about normal human desires for friendship and companionship a lot of people seem to suspect that we’re really talking about sex somehow.

I think this problem far predates any sort of LGBT movement. Our churches bought into the lie that society told us about how sex is an all-encompassing force and that natural friendships are really secret covers for sexual expression. So in trying to preserve chastity, we end up suppressing relationships that weren’t sexual in the first place out of fear that they might some day have sexual desire involved, while pushing people to fulfill all desires for human support and companionship within marriage.

Given that, you don’t really need to identify as LGBT anything to have issues - all you need to do is be single and not looking to be married. It’s just that those who aren’t attracted to the opposite sex are a rather prominent group within that.