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J
J_Peterson
Guest
I love this guy. How bizarre he won it in a girls softball raffle. Regardless, the girls get the money for the team and nobody gets the gun. This type of thing should be illegal though. Was there a background check to enter the raffle?
The obvious would be to have an artist turn it into a plowshare.
The obvious would be to have an artist turn it into a plowshare.
E
Expatreprocedit
Guest
Actually, now some are trying to get him prosecuted because he used church funds, or something.
The absurdity of a girl’s softball team raffling off an AR-15 seems to escape some folks.
Suudy
Active member
From the article:
“This one gun will never be used to kill anyone in a school, in a nightclub, anywhere else,” Lucas said. “It will never be used to terrorize anyone, it will never be used for anything destructive. That’s the one thing I can do.”
Considering millions are out there (low estimates say about 5 million), and in 2016, there have been less than 300 “incidences” related to “assault weapons” (including cases that are not involved with killing or terrorizing–see here), this means there is a 1 in 18,000 chance that one would be killed, terrorized, or otherwise harmed by an AR-15. This Episcopal pastor’s efforts reduced that chance by 0.00000002%. Clearly a meaningful gesture.
In 2013 there were just 33,636 firearms related deaths (see here). But 22,175 of them were suicides (nearly 70%–see here. By comparison, there were more vehicle related deaths (33,804) and poisoning (48,545) deaths. People are much more likely to be killed in car than than to be harmed by an AR-15. People are much more likely to be poisoned, than to be harmed by an AR-15.
This focus on firearms is political fodder, not based at all in the numbers.
“This one gun will never be used to kill anyone in a school, in a nightclub, anywhere else,” Lucas said. “It will never be used to terrorize anyone, it will never be used for anything destructive. That’s the one thing I can do.”
Considering millions are out there (low estimates say about 5 million), and in 2016, there have been less than 300 “incidences” related to “assault weapons” (including cases that are not involved with killing or terrorizing–see here), this means there is a 1 in 18,000 chance that one would be killed, terrorized, or otherwise harmed by an AR-15. This Episcopal pastor’s efforts reduced that chance by 0.00000002%. Clearly a meaningful gesture.
In 2013 there were just 33,636 firearms related deaths (see here). But 22,175 of them were suicides (nearly 70%–see here. By comparison, there were more vehicle related deaths (33,804) and poisoning (48,545) deaths. People are much more likely to be killed in car than than to be harmed by an AR-15. People are much more likely to be poisoned, than to be harmed by an AR-15.
This focus on firearms is political fodder, not based at all in the numbers.
Suudy
Active member
In Lake Oswego, perhaps. But come out to eastern WA or eastern OR, and it’s not so unusual. I’ve seen rifles raffled for football teams, 4H clubs, and even at our annual parish auction for the the school.
It’s only absurd for those who think they know better than other folk.
T
Texas_Cigar
Guest
This was in California. They have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. I don’t know Cali gun laws by heart but I’m pretty sure he had to go through some extensive background checks and maybe even a waiting period before he could get the rifle.
M
Michael68
Guest
That would depend a lot on geographical location. The south generally teaches children how to use and respect fire arms where as the north generally teaches fire arms are to be feared and no one should have one. It is not absurd to raffle off a fire arm in a community that doesn’t have an irrational fear of them
Suudy
Active member
No, this was in Lake Oswego, OR, a suburb of Portland.
T
Texas_Cigar
Guest
You are correct. My mistake.
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Expatreprocedit
Guest
This is an AR-15. It is absurd for anywhere.
And some people do “know better than other folk”.
Suudy
Active member
Why? What about the AR-15 makes it more absurd than a .3006? Or a M911? Or a .22?
How far outside of a major metropolitan area have your ever been and for how long? Have you ever spent any time in farm or ranch country? Come on out to eastern WA/eastern OR, spend several years living among us, and then tell us you know better than us whether an AR-15 is absurd.
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Expatreprocedit
Guest
And I imagine the “men” on Castro Street in San Francisco would say the same to you if you had any criticisms of their “lifestyle”. Every subculture believes it is fully justified in what it does.
But I’ll bite: how is owning AR-15s (opposed to a regular hunting rifle or a shotgun) essential to living in eastern WA/eastern OR?
Mary_Gail_36
New member
We have bake sales and chocolate bar sales at my kids’ school. And dress up day.
It seems like an odd prize to me as well.
T
Thom18
Guest
Anyone can enter the raffle, I’m pretty sure, but you don’t get the gun until you pass a background check.
P
Padres1969
Guest
Never heard of such a thing myself. Then again, given the large scale worshiping of and idolatry around guns that goes on in this country, it’s not surprising.
Suudy
Active member
It appears you are trying to draw a moral equivalence between the ownership of a rifle and homosexual acts. If not, then your point above makes no sense. If so, then you really have a flawed understanding of weapons.
Opposed to a “regular” (whatever that means), it isn’t any more (or less) essential. It is equivalent. But that misses the point entirely. You didn’t answer the first question in the previous post:
What about the AR-15 makes it more absurd than a .3006? Or a M911? Or a .22?
What makes a .3006 “regular”?
U
Usige
Guest
And how is an AR15 any different from any other varmint rifle? Friends in Texas use it to shoot cyottes on their ranch.
Why the AR15? Easy to clean. Good accuracy at mid distances. Easy to fix. Relatively cheap ammo.
Suudy
Active member
I’d love for you to see the reaction at our annual parish school auction–where a rifle is auctioned off frequently–when you tell them they part of "the large scale worshiping of and idolatry around guns.Never heard of such a thing myself. Then again, given the large scale worshiping of and idolatry around guns that goes on in this country, it’s not surprising.
This is one of the more stupid things I’ve read online.
My father was the assistant fire chief of a volunteer fire department when I was a kid. Every single Halloween, the department would hold a turkey shoot to raise funds. It involved trap shooting, target shooting, and pumpkin shooting. When I first participated I was 8 years old, firing a .410 at some clay pigeons. As I got older, I would participate in the pumpkin shooting, trying to hit pumpkins up to 300 yards away my hunting rifle (a Ruger .243). I guess this was all part of the “large scale worshiping of and idolatry around guns” as well.
Or how about the myriad of sausage shoots in our area to raise funds for gun clubs and youth trap and skeet teams? Or the KofC trap shoots I’ve been to?
Yep, I guess worship and idolize guns.
U
Usige
Guest
My former protestant church raffled off cars. I don’t see how it is any more bizarre then raffling off any other high cost item.Never heard of such a thing myself. Then again, given the large scale worshiping of and idolatry around guns that goes on in this country, it’s not surprising.
Why could it be useful to raffle off a gun? Let’s say I would like to buy a rifle but can’t afford spending $700. A local charity is selling tickets for $20 a pop. Me and 49 other neighbors buy two tickets a piece. So for $40 I have a 1 in 50 chance of getting a rifle. Even if the rifle was bought at retail, the orginzation would still net $1,300 for the one item. Last bake sale we did netted perhaps $500 and required 20 people to bake stuff.
Beleive it or not, many of us don’t idolize guns. We see them as useful tools. If we have a chance to own a tool that we might not normally be able to buy it makes perfectly good sense.
Does anyone complain if a church raffles off a car? It is based on the same principle. The only difference is some people’s almost neurotic aversion to guns.
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Padres1969
Guest
Hey if you want I can link you too this week’s sermon at my church. The guest preacher who was our Methodist preacher in residence actually used the phrase. I just borrowed it form him as it really does seem apt when describing American culture of late.I’d love for you to see the reaction at our annual parish school auction–where a rifle is auctioned off frequently–when you tell them they part of "the large scale worshiping of and idolatry around guns.
This is one of the more stupid things I’ve read online.
My father was the assistant fire chief of a volunteer fire department when I was a kid. Every single Halloween, the department would hold a turkey shoot to raise funds. It involved trap shooting, target shooting, and pumpkin shooting. When I first participated I was 8 years old, firing a .410 at some clay pigeons. As I got older, I would participate in the pumpkin shooting, trying to hit pumpkins up to 300 yards away my hunting rifle (a Ruger .243). I guess this was all part of the “large scale worshiping of and idolatry around guns” as well.
Or how about the myriad of sausage shoots in our area to raise funds for gun clubs and youth trap and skeet teams? Or the KofC trap shoots I’ve been to?
Yep, I guess worship and idolize guns.
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