Pastor Style

[superamazingman]

Cristiano:

I think that if it is only matter of style and people leave the Church because of that, then it is simply their decision to pick apostasy over salvation.

do you disagree with this?

 

[robertmidwest]

Are you reading the posts? If the pastor is only making style changes then it doesn’t really matter what parish the people attend. I made that clear from the beginning. The bishops letter stated that all of the choices are style.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

WOW!!! You must have a career in customer service.

I don’t belong to this parish, but that is probably the condescending attitude that turned so many off.

I find it amusing that you brought up ignorant peasants in your initial post and now you object to it being used. Apparently you think it’s okay to be very derogatory to anyone who is already dead, but not to the living. I chose those particular words to show the ridiculousness of what you originally posted, but it went way over your head.

 

[kmuestwin]

What’s your point Robert?

You don’t like what two priests in one parish in Wisconson are doing.

They are doing what is completely in their rights as acknowledged by their bishop.

My suggestion would be for you to not go to mass at this parish in Wisconson. SInce your profile says you live in Missouri, it seems like a waste to travel all that way to a parish every week.

You have two really good options here:

1. Find a parish that you like in your area, spend time making it better, and pray for holy and upstanding priests.
2. Go to Wisconson and actually meet these priests and go to mass in their parish. Until you actually go to the parish, you won’t know if these priests are doing a good job or not. All that’s been reported is that new priests showed up and people didn’t like their style of leadership. Go to mass there and you might like it so much that you move to Wisconson.

 

[twopekinguys]

What’s your point Robert?

You don’t like what two priests in one parish in Wisconson are doing.

They are doing what is completely in their rights as acknowledged by their bishop.

My suggestion would be for you to not go to mass at this parish in Wisconson. SInce your profile says you live in Missouri, it seems like a waste to travel all that way to a parish every week.

You have two really good options here:

1. Find a parish that you like in your area, spend time making it better, and pray for holy and upstanding priests.
2. Go to Wisconson and actually meet these priests and go to mass in their parish. Until you actually go to the parish, you won’t know if these priests are doing a good job or not. All that’s been reported is that new priests showed up and people didn’t like their style of leadership. Go to mass there and you might like it so much that you move to Wisconson.

Well said.

There are 2 things to consider here. 1. If these priests are as bad as the congregation appears to think they are, why haven’t they provided any concrete examples to their Bishop, as he requested? 2. Why are they having a problem obeying their Bishop?

I really hate to bring this issue into the equation, but could there also be a certain amount of prejudice toward these priests, because they don’t appear to be fluent English speakers, and appear to be hispanic? I really pray that this is not the issue here.

 

[agnes_therese]

The parishoners are not ignorant. They see the changes being made in their parish as the begining of heading down a slippery slope of regressing to Pre Vatican II days. I am proud of them for standing up for themselves.

Just FYI, not everyone considers actually following the rules to be “regressing.”

 

[maltmom]

Well said.

There are 2 things to consider here. 1. If these priests are as bad as the congregation appears to think they are, why haven’t they provided any concrete examples to their Bishop, as he requested? 2. Why are they having a problem obeying their Bishop?

I really hate to bring this issue into the equation, but could there also be a certain amount of prejudice toward these priests, because they don’t appear to be fluent English speakers, and appear to be hispanic? I really pray that this is not the issue here.

You took the words right out of my fingers. I pray for these Priests. I pray for the people of these Parishes. The ones fighting the Priests need to realize that this discord is not good for their Parishes.

 

[superamazingman]

I really hate to bring this issue into the equation, but could there also be a certain amount of prejudice toward these priests, because they don’t appear to be fluent English speakers, and appear to be hispanic? I really pray that this is not the issue here.

Being in town here, that doesn’t seem to be a problem, but it may be an undercurrent. However, I’d think it probably isn’t an issue.

 

[superamazingman]

Just FYI, not everyone considers actually following the rules to be “regressing.”

Great response!!

 

[twopekinguys]

Being in town here, that doesn’t seem to be a problem, but it may be an undercurrent. However, I’d think it probably isn’t an issue.

I truly pray you are right.

I have to be honest, and tell everyone, there have been occasions where our pastor or associate has said/done something that I didn’t feel was appropriate. (I think everyone has had at least one encounter like that)

With that being said, I have to say, I approached the priest and discussed it with them first. Adult to adult. Did I always get what I considered a satisfactory response? Did the conversation always go my way? No, but I didn’t go running to the Bishop either.

Sometimes the priest would admit he did something wrong, or came across the wrong way, and would apologize. Other times, it turned into a teaching moment for me. I didn’t always realize it was a teaching moment at the time, but eventually I would get that “Ah Ha!!” moment.

We look to our priests to be Godly, spiritual men, but we have to realize they are “men”. Men who fail on occasion. That doesn’t mean we have to cause trouble for them at every turn. It means we have to pray for them at every turn.

Bottom line is the people who are causing trouble for these priests need to put on their big boy, or big girl pants, and start acting like adults.

 

[Laetus]

We are not customers, we are subjects in the Kingdom and God has placed or bishops and priests in lawful authority.

That changes could have been handled differently has been acknowledged and apologies issued. However, the troublemakers have a different agenda and reject such outreach by the priests.

SHAME ON THEM.

We are humans. We are made in His likeness. We are to be treated with respect in His House. Apply this “lawful authority” with a lack of God’s grace and the pews will be empty. Deal with that reality

Shame on ALL of them!

 

[Laetus]

I think that if it is only matter of style and people leave the Church because of that, then it is simply their decision to pick apostasy over salvation.

If you look at the financial situation of the school you can see that the problem was pre-existing and the lack of funding from power hungry and faith lacking parishoners only aggravated things.

They need not be “apostate.” They might change parishes. They could change traditions/rites within the Church. They could become Eastern or Oriental Orthodox. They could become Protestants. None of these conditions would be defined as “apostasy.”

You’re also not the final judge of these people. God is and His final judgement is not usurped by anyone else. To suggest that anyone who leaves the Church is necessarily destined for Hell is not only an attempt to speak for God, it’s nothing more the Feenyism.

 

[jilly4ski]

We are humans. We are made in His likeness. We are to be treated with respect in His House. Apply this “lawful authority” with a lack of God’s grace and the pews will be empty. Deal with that reality

Shame on ALL of them!

So you are fine with parishioners (laity) restricting these priest’s legitimate options and his rightful role as chief liturgist of his parish?

(Notice these options are not the laity’s legitimate options, but the priests).

 

[wasserfall]

You’re also not the final judge of these people. God is and His final judgement is not usurped by anyone else. To suggest that anyone who leaves the Church is necessarily destined for Hell is not only an attempt to speak for God, it’s nothing more the Feenyism.

Apparently you have no idea what Feenyism is.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is a de fide dogma of the Church.

It’s not a matter of trying to speak for God. It is a matter of simply repeating what God has divinely revealed to His one and only Church – the Catholic Church.

 

[robertmidwest]

If the pastors of two different parishes in the same diocese run their parishes in slightly differnet way, but both are canonically correct, and one thrives and the other withers has the pastor who pushed people away filled his role as a shepard to the people?

 

[wasserfall]

If the pastors of two different parishes in the same diocese run their parishes in slightly differnet way, but both are canonically correct, and one thrives and the other withers has the pastor who pushed people away filled his role as a shepard to the people?

Better question, Robert: If the pastors of two different parishes in the same diocese run their parishes differently such that one preaches the fullness of the Catholic faith, even the parts people don’t want to hear, and the other doesn’t, and in one parish almost everyone goes to hell for all eternity because the pastor didn’t tell his parishioners how to avoid hell, and in the other parish, most of the parishioners go to heaven because their pastor did teach them how to avoid hell, then who has fulfilled his role as a shepherd to the people?

 

[robertmidwest]

Allowing female alter servers in a parish will keep parishoners from going to heaven? I though Bishop Morlino said this was a matter of style?

 

[wasserfall]

Allowing female alter servers in a parish will keep parishoners from going to heaven? I though Bishop Morlino said this was a matter of style?

That’s not the point. The point is that being a good shepherd for the parishioners is about helping them to get to heaven when it is actually far easier to be damned for all eternity. That’s what makes a priest a good pastor.

The priests in Platteville take that duty very seriously. They are very concerned about the souls of their parishioners. They believe that the changes they have made are conducive for the salvation of souls. Now clearly, it is possible to have a disagreement on that point, but they are the pastors, not you, not me, and not the dissident parishioners.

 

[Laetus]

That’s not the point. The point is that being a good shepherd for the parishioners is about helping them to get to heaven when it is actually far easier to be damned for all eternity. That’s what makes a priest a good pastor.

The priests in Platteville take that duty very seriously. They are very concerned about the souls of their parishioners. They believe that the changes they have made are conducive for the salvation of souls. Now clearly, it is possible to have a disagreement on that point, but they are the pastors, not you, not me, and not the dissident parishioners.

How do you know that? They did some thing that clearly angered and in some cases I’m sure alienated some of the parishioners. Even if they didn’t mean to and even if some feel the parishioners have “no right” to be upset, there is a real pastoral problem that should have never happened. The last thing such priests should want is to drive people away from the faith.

And I’m not saying the only way to avoid such problems is for the priests to forego their dreams of an all-male altar server group. They simply should have been more diplomatic and tactful in implementing their plans.

 

[Laetus]

What you say is technically correct, but I’d think it’s the other way around.

Male servers are allowed by the church, and the holy father, bishop, local pastor, and celebrant can use females only if he wants to, and all of those above him allow it.

I’m very comfortable with the way that I (and the Church) put it.