Pastor Style

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superamazingman said:
You can all say whatever you want, but in no way are they being condescending. Anyone who attends the parish or knows the situation first hand knows that. I can’t find the news article right now, but there was an instance where a woman went into a 1-on-1 meeting with the one of the priests very frustrated and angry, and left telling everyone how kind, gentle, and that she had a sense she was loved and cared for. That doesn’t happen after meeting with an angry condescending priest. That happens after meeting with a loving, Godly priest who loves our Lord and the church.
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I’m not sure that’s true. The priests have admitted that they didn’t handle it in the most pastorally sensitive way.
 
kmuestwin said:
What’s your point Robert?

You don’t like what two priests in one parish in Wisconson are doing.

They are doing what is completely in their rights as acknowledged by their bishop.

My suggestion would be for you to not go to mass at this parish in Wisconson. SInce your profile says you live in Missouri, it seems like a waste to travel all that way to a parish every week.

You have two really good options here:
  1. Find a parish that you like in your area, spend time making it better, and pray for holy and upstanding priests.
  2. Go to Wisconson and actually meet these priests and go to mass in their parish. Until you actually go to the parish, you won’t know if these priests are doing a good job or not. All that’s been reported is that new priests showed up and people didn’t like their style of leadership. Go to mass there and you might like it so much that you move to Wisconson.
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I hope you realize that’s not a reason for doing a darned thing…
 
Laetus said:
How do you know that? They did some thing that clearly angered and in some cases I’m sure alienated some of the parishioners. Even if they didn’t mean to and even if some feel the parishioners have “no right” to be upset, there is a real pastoral problem that should have never happened.
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If one investigates the situation in some depth then it is obvious that these priests care very much about the eternal souls of their parishioners. I have followed the situation for almost two years now.
And I’m not saying the only way to avoid such problems is for the priests to forego their dreams of an all-male altar server group. They simply should have been more diplomatic and tactful in implementing their plans.
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They really did not need to do anything differently. The changes they made were not a surprise to anyone in the parish. Another parish was previously put under the charge of the same society of priests and the same changes were made there. So when these priests were assigned to Platteville, everyone in the parish knew exactly what was coming.

The problem is primarily that there was a fairly large group of parishioners who had embraced the hermeneutic of rupture. They were convinced (and most still are convinced) that Vatican II changed everything and has done away with the “bad old days” of Catholicism. They are extremely displeased that their perception is turning out to be wrong – or at least, not shared by their new pastors or by their bishop. This is immediately obvious if one reads the public statements made by the dissenters.

You may personally disagree with the approach taken by the priests in Platteville (I don’t), but then again, you aren’t the pastor. When you’re the pastor you can remove the girls from altar service in whatever manner you wish.
 
jilly4ski said:
So you are fine with parishioners (laity) restricting these priest’s legitimate options and his rightful role as chief liturgist of his parish?

(Notice these options are not the laity’s legitimate options, but the priests).
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My answer is two-fold. First, I don’t know the nuances of this situation (and nuances mean A LOT!) because I am not a member of this parish. The fact that the pastor has the authority to make a change does not mean that he did not cause a problem – no matter how good or bad the response was by the faithful.

That said, would I stop tithing (that’s essentially what they did, right?) because a new pastor was making very sensitive changes (whether he had the authority or not) without communicating well with the people and doing it in a pastorally sensitive manner? Sure I would – but I also wouldn’t say a word about it to anyone either.
 
wasserfall said:
They believe that the changes they have made are conducive for the salvation of souls.
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Not according to Bishop Morlino. He stated that the changes were only matters of style. Are you saying the Bishop is incorrect? Are you saying the previous pastor was not saving souls?
 
wasserfall said:
If one investigates the situation in some depth then it is obvious that these priests care very much about the eternal souls of their parishioners. I have followed the situation for almost two years now.
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Any priest that cares “very much about the eternal souls of their parishioners” would be extremely careful about dealing with matters (particularly non urgent matters) that might well drive the faithful away from the Church.
wasserfall said:
They really did not need to do anything differently. The changes they made were not a surprise to anyone in the parish. Another parish was previously put under the charge of the same society of priests and the same changes were made there. So when these priests were assigned to Platteville, everyone in the parish knew exactly what was coming.
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So? The changes weren’t a surprise/they knew what was coming. So what? Just how were the changes communicated to the faithful? Not very tactfully is my guess.
wasserfall said:
The problem is primarily that there was a fairly large group of parishioners who had embraced the hermeneutic of rupture. They were convinced (and most still are convinced) that Vatican II changed everything and has done away with the “bad old days” of Catholicism. They are extremely displeased that their perception is turning out to be wrong – or at least, not shared by their new pastors or by their bishop. This is immediately obvious if one reads the public statements made by the dissenters.
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So you say. It also sounds like the pastor either lacks people skills or he didn’t feel the need to employ them when trying to institute this change.
wasserfall said:
You may personally disagree with the approach taken by the priests in Platteville (I don’t), but then again, you aren’t the pastor. When you’re the pastor you can remove the girls from altar service in whatever manner you wish.
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Good grief. You just tipped your cards. No need for diplomacy and tact on a most incendiary issue, aye? No wonder some people got so upset!
 
If their Bishop is supporting the Priests then everybody else including the parishioners, you and I need to be disciplined and be quiet.

Catholics are called to obey their Bishops, are we not.

This is unproductive talk bordering on gossip, innuendo and slander.

We need to tame your tongues.

shhh
 
Laetus said:
I hope you realize that’s not a reason for doing a darned thing…
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Just because we disagree doesn’t mean you have the right to curse at me.

I believe that priests should exercise their pastoral duty by leading their flock in the best way they can.

These priests used their best judgment and instituted changes. Who am I to say this is a bad thing.

The bishop knew the charism of these priests is the promotion of priestly vocations. He had a plan when he moved them there.

I support the clergy and hierarchy of the Church. You support disruptive former parishioners.
I can respectfully disagree with you without being rude.
 
robertmidwest said:
Here is the real reason the story bugs me: Why is it everytime someone speaks up they are told “Hold on there you’re getting close to causing a scandal!!”

My parish is one of the one in the media lately about Bishops moving pedophile priests around instead of turning them into the police. I got into a facebook debate with associate of mine and that was his copout answer. Not the only debate I have had with him and this is always the standard cop out answer. Hello, we are not stupid!. Can we not speak up to hold Bishops accountable? Everytime someone speaks up, the response is “you’re getting pretty close to heresy there!!!”
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My point.
 
robertmidwest said:
Not according to Bishop Morlino. He stated that the changes were only matters of style. Are you saying the Bishop is incorrect? Are you saying the previous pastor was not saving souls?
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I can’t judge the previous pastor. The current pastor believes that the changes he made are conducive for the salvation of souls. That’s enough.

As for the bishop, perhaps he see things as a matter of style, but I’m sure the priests in Platteville themselves see it as more than a matter of style.
 
loko said:
What point Robert?

You are a gossiper and not in possession of all the facts. None of us are.

The Bishop has spoken.

Hush now and discipline your tongue.
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No.

It is this “Sit down. Shut up, Don’t you know that we know what’s best for you?” attitude that allows abuse to continue.
 
Laetus said:
Good grief. You just tipped your cards. No need for diplomacy and tact on a most incendiary issue, aye? No wonder some people got so upset!
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If it were me, I’d announce the decision in my first sermon at the parish, in which I would spend the whole sermon reading quotes from Popes, saints, and doctors of the Church about how service at the altar is reserved to men alone.

Perhaps you would choose to remove the girls from altar service in another way.

As I said before, neither one of us is the pastor of the parish, so our opinions aren’t so important.
 
robertmidwest said:
No.

It is this “Sit down. Shut up, Don’t you know that we know what’s best for you?” attitude that allows abuse to continue.
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There is no abuse in Platteville. Just some faithful Catholic priests and some disobedient, dissident parishioners who may or may not actually have the Catholic faith.
 
wasserfall said:
I’m sure the priests in Platteville themselves see it as more than a matter of style.
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Exactly. These priest think they are above other priests. They believe they alone are doing it the right way, so everyone should should just shut up and accept it.
 
robertmidwest said:
Exactly. These priest think they are above other priests.
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Have any of them said that?

I would say they think that their way of doing things is best, but that’s not unusual, pretty much everyone thinks their way of doing things is best, otherwise they would change the way they do things.

One of the best things about these priests seems to be the fact that they are not afraid to preach the Catholic faith. They tell people that God wants everyone to live holy lives and obey God’s laws, and receive the sacraments, including the sacrament of penance, in order to save their souls from eternal damnation.

Apparently that wasn’t preached very much in the parish under the old pastor. If it had been, people wouldn’t be upset by it now, but it is the truth, and people need to hear the truth.
 
wasserfall said:
Apparently that wasn’t preached very much in the parish under the old pastor. If it had been, people wouldn’t be upset by it now, but it is the truth, and people need to hear the truth.
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Wait! It sounds like you just judged the previous pastor.
 
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