Pastor Wright invited to speak at St Sabina Catholic Church in Chicago

[The_Dweller]

As has already been noted, Pfleger is a familiar figure to those of us in the Chicago area. To put it bluntly, he is nothing but left-wing media hound, and the media are only too willing to oblige. The question is, what is Cardinal George going to do about this? If the past is any indication, the answer is- nothing.

 

[jc-servant]

Of course, of course, well yes maybe you’d like some experience with some poor white liberation theology at your church then too.

What is that supposed to mean? I’m Catholic and I said that I did not oppose someone visiting who is not preaching or speaking at the parish. I was talking about preaching that I’ve witnessed over the years at various churches that I visited with relatives before I converted as an adult. Your statement which I assume is supposed to be sarcastic does not engender open and honest conversation.

 

[jc-servant]

This black liberation theology that has been discussed lately (Wright’s philosophy) sounds just like the liberation theology that was condemned years ago by the Pope. The condemnation came about because liberal priests in Latin America were becoming involved in politics and being immersed in liberation theology which advocated violent overthrow to achieve goals.

Actually, the two philosophies share a similar name, but the preaching in the black churches in the US predates what was happening in Latin America and it is different. I have studied the Latin American issue and I agree that the priests there got far to into the politics and movements that were trying to overthrow the government.

Priests in the US have been involved in civil rights work and community activism for centuries without going to those extremes. There were priests working during the civil rights era here who really angered their parishioners for “siding” with blacks over segregation. Their were priests and nuns marching across that bridge into Selma, Alabama who were considered quite “radical” and subversive by the whites at that time. A lot of people thought that they were doing things that were over the line of what was acceptable. With some historical perspective we can see that perhaps they knew a little something about social justice.

Rev. Wright is on the more extreme end of what is preached in the US, but he does not actually advocate the overthrow of the US government. It would have been kind of stupid to serve in the Marines if one believed that. There is a difference between anger towards something that one feels is unjust and hate that wants to destroy it.

I think a lot of people don’t understand that many black Americans can still have anger at things that have happened and basically rant about it within the family or in some cases in church without being “unpatriotic.” We will still be the first to sign up to protect our country and serve even though we believe there is significant room for improvement. I come from a strong military family with basically my father and all uncles serving full careers and currently multiple people still on active duty. They can still complain about America with the best of them. I believe they have earned that right.

 

[planter654]

I’ve worked with many who attend services at St. Sabina’s who are proud Protestants. While I’ve never been to St. Sabina’s I’ve attended serivces at other Catholic churches in the Archdiocese that were predominantley black and two things I noticed were that they NEVER recite the creed nor do they kneel during the consecration (don’t even have kneelers). One priest (who definitely leans on the liberal side) told me its because most parishoners are Baptist converts and they wanted to make them feel comfortable and make the mass similar to Baptist services.

Why do we have all black Catholic Church in the first place? Are we not all brothers and sisters? Why do we not see black Catholics in our Church? In all my life I have never seen A black brother and sister in any Catholic Church in America or Canada, why?

God Bless

 

[jc-servant]

I’ve worked with many who attend services at St. Sabina’s who are proud Protestants. While I’ve never been to St. Sabina’s I’ve attended serivces at other Catholic churches in the Archdiocese that were predominantley black and two things I noticed were that they NEVER recite the creed nor do they kneel during the consecration (don’t even have kneelers). One priest (who definitely leans on the liberal side) told me its because most parishoners are Baptist converts and they wanted to make them feel comfortable and make the mass similar to Baptist services.

Gosh, are you certain that your limited experience is grounds for asserting that the predominately black parishes NEVER recite the creed? I’ve been to predominately white parishes where the priest forgot the creed on a certain Sunday, but I don’t extrapolate my limited experience there into an absolute.

My very diverse, but majority white parish didn’t kneel for more than 15 years, but once we built our permanent church with kneelers we got right on down there. Even the GIRM does not direct the faithful to kneel in the absence of kneelers. They are supposed to stand.

BTW, I’m a convert from Baptist and I never felt the need to be accommodated with some non-kneeler junk at mass. If the priest actually believed that nonsense then he needs some serious education or he has failed to educate the converts in his parish. I’ve worked with RCIA for 5 years and 100s of converts and never once have I heard a complaint about kneeling.

 

[gmarie21]

Why do we have all black Catholic Church in the first place? Are we not all brothers and sisters? Why do we not see black Catholics in our Church? In all my life I have never seen A black brother and sister in any Catholic Church in America or Canada, why?

God Bless

The churches were in black neighborhoods. There are a few black parishoners in my parish as well as surrounding parishes. We also have hispanic, filipino, and indian (from india) parishoners too, but it basically comes down to the population surrounding the parish. Cities tend to be more segregated in their neighborhoods than some suburban areas. And even though many won’t admit it, most people of all backgrounds like to live around those with similar backgrounds. Me, it doesn’t matter much to me who my neighbors are as long as they are respectful and aren’t loud at non-normal hours (I have a neighbor right now, who, in the warm months, will be setting off fireworks at 2am on the street outside our window ).

 

[gmarie21]

Gosh, are you certain that your limited experience is grounds for asserting that the predominately black parishes NEVER recite the creed? I’ve been to predominately white parishes where the priest forgot the creed on a certain Sunday, but I don’t extrapolate my limited experience there into an absolute.

My very diverse, but majority white parish didn’t kneel for more than 15 years, but once we built our permanent church with kneelers we got right on down there. Even the GIRM does not direct the faithful to kneel in the absence of kneelers. They are supposed to stand.

BTW, I’m a convert from Baptist and I never felt the need to be accommodated with some non-kneeler junk at mass. If the priest actually believed that nonsense then he needs some serious education or he has failed to educate the converts in his parish. I’ve worked with RCIA for 5 years and 100s of converts and never once have I heard a complaint about kneeling.

Well, you’re right that my experience is limited to a few parishes (since I have not traveled to parishes around the country, just the Chicago and Milwaukee areas), but, in the parishes that I attended (and knew the priests, hence I could question them), the absence of the Crred wasn’t a mistake once-in-a-while. I do agree with you that many parishes seem to not kneel during consecration, it’s just the black inner city one’s that I’ve viosited that seem to be missing kneelers. I don’t blame parishoners if they don’t know. The blame for lack of reverence is, imho, solely the blame of the pastor (no matter where the parish exists). By the way, I did complain to the pastors and the orders for their abuses during the mass.

 

[BSHoop96]

When I heard Bill O’Reilly on his TV show he said they were going to “try” to get Father Pfleiger on. They may have held the spot (they one they used for the Pets) in case they were able to do it. O’Reilly will usually say if someone has been invited but refuses to come on.

As far as the Catholic church in Chicago. I clicked on the link. I saw the connection with Harry Belafonte. ] I left the website. That told me all I needed to know.

 

[jman507]

What is that supposed to mean? I’m Catholic and I said that I did not oppose someone visiting who is not preaching or speaking at the parish. I was talking about preaching that I’ve witnessed over the years at various churches that I visited with relatives before I converted as an adult. Your statement which I assume is supposed to be sarcastic does not engender open and honest conversation.

Actually I don’t think every type of screed in and of itself deserves to be officially sanctioned to come into a Church in a presentation, nor do I think every type of diatribe deserves to be especially dwelled upon as an open and honest conversation. I am certainly glad that the 1st amendment allows most of it to be brought out without fear of jail, that doesn’t mean you have to allow it. I wouldn’t want the people from the West Burrow Church to come into my church guest speakers. I don’t really care if that doesn’t engender open conversation, the details are a rather moot point, when the essential fundamentals are irreconcilable.

If he wants liberation theology let him liberate. If he wants to say GD the “they” that I am apart of, I say good luck on your own. I don’t really care for passive aggressive tactics, where you say you don’t want to be apart of the group, but at the same time try to find your in inside it. The only thing that duelist approach will bring doing slow growth in both measures. Then what, that feeds back into the angst, because you’ve done nothing well. Take your pick buy in or don’t. Otherwise your going to be stuck in a reaction of disillusionment, and have everyone else irritated at you.

 

[manualman]

Actually, the two philosophies share a similar name, but the preaching in the black churches in the US predates what was happening in Latin America and it is different. I have studied the Latin American issue and I agree that the priests there got far to into the politics and movements that were trying to overthrow the government.
…

I think a lot of people don’t understand that many black Americans can still have anger at things that have happened and basically rant about it within the family or in some cases in church without being “unpatriotic.” We will still be the first to sign up to protect our country and serve even though we believe there is significant room for improvement. I come from a strong military family with basically my father and all uncles serving full careers and currently multiple people still on active duty. They can still complain about America with the best of them. I believe they have earned that right.

Thanks for the perspective! I too noticed that a lot of what the media frenzy focused on in Wright’s sermons was the outrage at treatment of blacks in America past and present. I agree that his G.D. America statements were taken very out of context and excusable when you consider the ENTIRE points he was trying to make.

To my mind, he crossed the line when he started accusing the US government of creating and spreading AIDS as a way of killing off black populations. At that point, he is no longer pointing out genuine injustice and has simply resorted to fanning the flames of hatred as badly as any white power preacher.

I wish the media would do a better job of differentiating the truly dangerous rhetoric from the sound bites that might make a bigger splash, but have less substance.

 

[Don1852]

Thanks for the perspective! I too noticed that a lot of what the media frenzy focused on in Wright’s sermons was the outrage at treatment of blacks in America past and present. I agree that his G.D. America statements were taken very out of context and excusable when you consider the ENTIRE points he was trying to make.

Anytime, anyone says “God Damn (fill in the blanks)” in a church, I think it is a problem. Have you ever heard these words uttered by the Pastor in your Church?

As for the media "cherry picking’ his sermons, I think he did that himself. If we are to believe what we read, Wright gave 3 sermons a week for 20 years or by my math over 3000.

How many of the 3000 do you think that he memorialized by putting them on a DVD and selling them at the back of the church. My best assumption would be 30 or less, thus these DVDs represent what he considers his best 1% of sermons given.

This is a sad scenario on a man of God… one can only wonder what was in the sermons he passed over. That a Catholic Priest would invite him to speak makes me wonder about the Catholic Church in Chicago.

BTW in addition to OReilly on his TV show saying that Pflifer would be invited, the next day on his radio show, folks have reported that Oreilly said Pflifer would be on that night. I can only assume that smarter folks at the Archdiocese shut him down and that O’Reilly (an acknowledged Catholic) gave them a pass. … which he seldom does for elected officials and candidates.

Don1852

 

[Jabronie]

As has already been noted, Pfleger is a familiar figure to those of us in the Chicago area. To put it bluntly, he is nothing but left-wing media hound, and the media are only too willing to oblige. The question is, what is Cardinal George going to do about this? If the past is any indication, the answer is- nothing.

I’ll probably take some heat for saying this, but what did America do to end up with so many worthless bishops and cardinals?

There is a reason that the Church is bleeding members in the larger dioceses and I place the blame directly on the liberalism on top.

Pray daily that our Holy Father continues to clean up our Church!

 

[manualman]

1. Anytime, anyone says “God D*** (fill in the blanks)” in a church, I think it is a problem. Have you ever heard these words uttered by the Pastor in your Church?

As for the media "cherry picking’ his sermons, I think he did that himself. If we are to believe what we read, Wright gave 3 sermons a week for 20 years or by my math over 3000.

How many of the 3000 do you think that he memorialized by putting them on a DVD and selling them at the back of the church. My best assumption would be 30 or less, thus these DVDs represent what he considers his best 1% of sermons given.

1. This is a sad scenario on a man of God… one can only wonder what was in the sermons he passed over. That a Catholic Priest would invite him to speak makes me wonder about the Catholic Church in Chicago.

BTW in addition to OReilly on his TV show saying that Pflifer would be invited, the next day on his radio show, folks have reported that Oreilly said Pflifer would be on that night. I can only assume that smarter folks at the Archdiocese shut him down and that O’Reilly (an acknowledged Catholic) gave them a pass. … which he seldom does for elected officials and candidates.

1. I certainly wouldn’t use such rhetoric in Church, nor have I heard it. Nor have I ever been required to sit in the back of a bus or ordered to attend a substandard school when a perfectly decent one was 2 blocks away. Context, my friend. On some issues you cut some people some slack. Other behavior as I noted is not excusable by anyone.
2. You don’t know Fr. Pfleger’s reputation, I see. If he wanted to go on a TV show, I doubt a direct papal order would stop him, much less a mere Cardinal.

 

[shockerfan]

There have been many preachers with fiery and controversial sermons that may seem quite out of hand to other people in our country’s history. I think that having Rev. Wright visit is a good opportunity for getting some straight answers from him directly on what he does or does not believe. He wasn’t preaching at this parish or being given an award, so I don’t have a problem with him being invited for another purpose. I don’t see it as “associating with hate.”

While many of us may be very uncomfortable or angry with the exact wording and/or sentiments we heard in some of the brief video clips that have been shown over and over again as “proof” of what Rev. Wright supposedly has proclaimed for his entire 30 years of ministry, I take it all with a grain of salt. If we think that every show, including Bill O’ Reilly does not spin stories, then we are woefully ignorant of how the media works.

I think it is unfair to judge a man’s entire career or life’s work based on a few minutes of videotape. Much of this appears more like scandal mongering than anything else given how the story has been covered. As Catholics, perhaps we should ask ourselves why we watch commentary shows on Fox and other “news” networks that routinely follow scandal and rudely shout over or bash on anyone who does not share the viewpoint of the hosts. Remember when Sean Hannity treated that priest so badly who challenged him about proclaiming his disobedience/disagreement with the church on things like contraception and fasting/abstinence while also promoting himself as a “faithful” Catholic?

If many or most of Wright’s Sunday sermons had been nearly as controversial or offensive as the bits shown repeatedly on TV, then I believe we would have seen a lot more different taped scenes by now. I’m sure that people who are relishing the scandal have been busily digging for more damaging bits, so where are they if this fairly represents the man’s whole life? His honorable service in the Marines and many decades of helping the poor have virtually been ignored while he is bashed as unpatriotic or anti-American. I believe that very few of us would look good if our worst moments had been caught on video. I don’t expect the whole world to ignore the decades of good work based on the current political climate where this man’s failings suddenly seem so much worse than our own sins. Therefore, I’m not going to condemn other religious people including the priest who want to continue to work with Wright or speak with him.

We should pray for Rev. Wright and use this opportunity to have a deeper and more honest discussion of race relations and foreign policy and domestic policy in this country.

It seems to me that many people, not just yourself, seem apologetic for Mr. Wright’s comments. How would you feel if David Duke was invited to a Catholic Church and was openly welcomed by the priest? Would you be as willing to overlook some of his past behaviors?

 

[aimee]

louis farrakhan and Father P

 

[Don1852]

1. I certainly wouldn’t use such rhetoric in Church, nor have I heard it. Nor have I ever been required to sit in the back of a bus or ordered to attend a substandard school when a perfectly decent one was 2 blocks away. Context, my friend. On some issues you cut some people some slack. Other behavior as I noted is not excusable by anyone.

Don’t you not think that the black community would be better served with Pastors who thought more like Bill Cosby and less like Jeremiah Wright.

Do you really think the problem is “substandard schools” or a community standard that doing well in school is “acting white”.

They could escape the “substandard schools” as you call them if their leaders supported a Voucher Program. This would be doubly true of minority Catholics.

In the area where I live, the performance of the school has far more to do with the attitude of the parents and students than with the Building, Equipment or even the Teachers. So just what makes a school “substandard”.

Or is the real issue making excuses… which in the long view accomplishes nothing.

Don1852

 

[The_Dweller]

I’ll probably take some heat for saying this, but what did America do to end up with so many worthless bishops and cardinals?

There is a reason that the Church is bleeding members in the larger dioceses and I place the blame directly on the liberalism on top.

Pray daily that our Holy Father continues to clean up our Church!

What’s truly troubling is the fact that Cardinal George is considered a conservative!

 

[planter654]

Anytime, anyone says “God Damn (fill in the blanks)” in a church, I think it is a problem. Have you ever heard these words uttered by the Pastor in your Church?

As for the media "cherry picking’ his sermons, I think he did that himself. If we are to believe what we read, Wright gave 3 sermons a week for 20 years or by my math over 3000.

How many of the 3000 do you think that he memorialized by putting them on a DVD and selling them at the back of the church. My best assumption would be 30 or less, thus these DVDs represent what he considers his best 1% of sermons given.

This is a sad scenario on a man of God… one can only wonder what was in the sermons he passed over. That a Catholic Priest would invite him to speak makes me wonder about the Catholic Church in Chicago.

BTW in addition to OReilly on his TV show saying that Pflifer would be invited, the next day on his radio show, folks have reported that Oreilly said Pflifer would be on that night. I can only assume that smarter folks at the Archdiocese shut him down and that O’Reilly (an acknowledged Catholic) gave them a pass. … which he seldom does for elected officials and candidates.

Don1852

I have not heard of any, any pastor in A Church saying God-----! but I have heard many, many many Catholics who go to mass in the Church say it outside the Church. Can I ask what is the difference in the eyes of God in or out?

God Bless

 

[Don1852]

I have not heard of any, any pastor in A Church saying God-----! but I have heard many, many many Catholics who go to mass in the Church say it outside the Church. Can I ask what is the difference in the eyes of God in or out?
God Bless

What is the difference between yelling “Fire” in your car or in a crowded Church?

I am also sure that people say the “F word” outside of church, should the Pastor also say it from the Pulpit.

Don1852

 

[jman507]

Thanks for the perspective! I too noticed that a lot of what the media frenzy focused on in Wright’s sermons was the outrage at treatment of blacks in America past and present. I agree that his G.D. America statements were taken very out of context and excusable when you consider the ENTIRE points he was trying to make.

To my mind, he crossed the line when he started accusing the US government of creating and spreading AIDS as a way of killing off black populations. At that point, he is no longer pointing out genuine injustice and has simply resorted to fanning the flames of hatred as badly as any white power preacher.

I wish the media would do a better job of differentiating the truly dangerous rhetoric from the sound bites that might make a bigger splash, but have less substance.

I will agree with you about those statements crossed the line. But I do disagree when it comes to the G.D. America statements. I will agree one could frame them into a context where I could see it possible for one to say that out of frustration, but another certain context trumps that. A preacher from the pulpit saying something so profane, a complete violation of the commandment about taking the Lord’s name in vain, is betraying his calling as a pastor. He ought to know what GD means, and he is in no position to tell God to D anything.