Pat Robertson challenges creationism, cities dinosaurs

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Azygos said:
If evolution were true then death would of happened before Adam and Eve. If Death happened before Adam and Eve then it would be impossible for SIN to bring death into the World. So without SIN bringing death into the World we wouldn’t have Original Sin. If evolution were true then Original Sin would not be true and we wouldn’t need a savior. The whole bible would be a worthless, so much for a spiritual account. If you believe in evolution then you really need to reevaluate your position and consider the alternatives then research them for yourself. I’m done here, I having nothing left to tell you or show you that you don’t already know so if you want to find the Truth then you will have to search for it.
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First off, I don’t appreciate being accused of indirectly calling the Bible worthless. You say we should be more charitable, but the same applies to you. Second, what about animals? They never sinned and yet they die. Did Adam and Eve really fall so hard as to even induce death in non-human animals?
 
Azygos said:
If evolution were true then death would of happened before Adam and Eve. If Death happened before Adam and Eve then it would be impossible for SIN to bring death into the World. So without SIN bringing death into the World we wouldn’t have Original Sin. If evolution were true then Original Sin would not be true and we wouldn’t need a savoir. The whole bible would be a worthless, so much for a spiritual account. If you believe in evolution then you really need to reevaluate your position and consider the alternatives then research them for yourself. I’m done here, I having nothing left to tell you or show you that you don’t already know so if you want to find the Truth then you will have to search for it.
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The fall resulted in the death of humans.
As Adam and Eve were the first humans (the first to get souls through an act of special creation, remember?) no humans died before them. Perhaps it was by creating an immortal soul for humans that God gave them the potential to live forever, and then, when the fall happened, we were cursed to die physically.
 
Azygos said:
If evolution were true then death would of happened before Adam and Eve. If Death happened before Adam and Eve then it would be impossible for SIN to bring death into the World. So without SIN bringing death into the World we wouldn’t have Original Sin. If evolution were true then Original Sin would not be true and we wouldn’t need a savoir. The whole bible would be a worthless, so much for a spiritual account. If you believe in evolution then you really need to reevaluate your position and consider the alternatives then research them for yourself. I’m done here, I having nothing left to tell you or show you that you don’t already know so if you want to find the Truth then you will have to search for it.
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If this is the pivotal point for your faith you will always be out of balance.

Somethings are a mystery. Why do we suffer and die? Why is childbirth painful when it produces the most wonderful thing a human can create - a child. Why must we work by the sweat of our brow when animals seem so at home in the world? Why is our life over like a flash - 70- years, 80 if we a strong and most of them are misery and pain? Why when we try and do good do we often create as much harm?

Genesis is a divinely inspired scripture to explain the mystery.

But it is not a chronology, or a history, or the Old Testament version of National Geographic.
 
_Abyssinia said:
I do not understand how if Earth is 5000, 10000 or millions of years old how that impacts the Bible or the Christian faith. Bible does not say how old Earth is
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Exactly, it doesn’t 🙂

I’m in my fifties, and I can remember being taught, as a young schoolchild, that nothing in the theory of evolution was incompatible with the Bible or the Catholic faith. Surprising to see it still being argued!
 
I’m surprised that there are still many creationists. Believing in evolution does not contradict religion, and the evidence for its occurrence is, in my opinion, quite valid.
 
chartreusefox said:
I’m surprised that there are still many creationists. Believing in evolution does not contradict religion, and the evidence for its occurrence is, in my opinion, quite valid.
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This flirtation with Creationism is more of an American issue. I believe it has to do with an Evangelical infection in some quarters of American Catholicism. You will find some converts from Biblical Literalist backgrounds who have a hard time letting go of this aspect of their former faith.

Fortunately, Young Earth, and ID nonsense is pretty fringe thinking in Catholic circles and most people don’t even know that some Catholics think this way.
 
ringil said:
This flirtation with Creationism is more of an American issue. I believe it has to do with an Evangelical infection in some quarters of American Catholicism. You will find some converts from Biblical Literalist backgrounds who have a hard time letting go of this aspect of their former faith.

Fortunately, Young Earth, and ID nonsense is pretty fringe thinking in Catholic circles and most people don’t even know that some Catholics think this way.
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There is nothing wrong with thinking this way. If I’m wrong for believing in Creation then your also wrong for believing in Evolution as it lacks evidence and factual support. Funny how we, the creationist are the silly ones but you guys are mixing a naturalist worldview with the supernatural worldview.

As Jesus said I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. Why don’t you choose a side instead but being confused and caught in the middle.

By the way you have been drinking to much of that Godless kool aid and your antisemitism towards creationist is showing.
 
triumphguy said:
If this is the pivotal point for your faith you will always be out of balance.

Somethings are a mystery. Why do we suffer and die? Why is childbirth painful when it produces the most wonderful thing a human can create - a child. Why must we work by the sweat of our brow when animals seem so at home in the world? Why is our life over like a flash - 70- years, 80 if we a strong and most of them are misery and pain? Why when we try and do good do we often create as much harm?

Genesis is a divinely inspired scripture to explain the mystery.

But it is not a chronology, or a history, or the Old Testament version of National Geographic.
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Actually it puts my faith in balance. The literal creation is not only supported by science but the bible. It also supports Original Sin. If your Theistic Evolution Worldview were true then The Bible would be wrong, there would be no reason to believe in Adam and Eve or the fall of man, death would have entered the world before sin thus exploding original sin and making the entire bible spiritually unnecessary.
 
Razanir said:
First off, I don’t appreciate being accused of indirectly calling the Bible worthless. You say we should be more charitable, but the same applies to you. Second, what about animals? They never sinned and yet they die. Did Adam and Eve really fall so hard as to even induce death in non-human animals?
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Yes, there was no Death until SIN brought it into the World. The Truth is not charitable at times and if you think I’m being harsh then take it up with God because the Truth comes from him as he is the Truth.
 
Azygos said:
There is nothing wrong with thinking this way. If I’m wrong for believing in Creation then your also wrong for believing in Evolution as it lacks evidence and factual support. Funny how we, the creationist are the silly ones but you guys are mixing a naturalist worldview with the supernatural worldview.

As Jesus said I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. Why don’t you choose a side instead but being confused and caught in the middle.

By the way you have been drinking to much of that Godless kool aid and your antisemitism towards creationist is showing.
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What does antisemitism have to do with this? And I really don’t appreciate being called godless, when I am just as Catholic as you are :mad:
Azygos said:
Actually it puts my faith in balance. The literal creation is not only supported by science but the bible. It also supports Original Sin. If your Theistic Evolution Worldview were true then The Bible would be wrong, there would be no reason to believe in Adam and Eve or the fall of man, death would have entered the world before sin thus exploding original sin and making the entire bible spiritually unnecessary.
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Theistic Evolution CAN and DOES go hand in hand with Adam and Eve. Also, where does it say that animals were also affected by original sin and also did not die until after the Fall?
 
colmywaykurtz said:
I’ve always considered varve formations to be concrete proof of an earth much older than 6000 years. Here is one good site about them.

oldearth.org/varves.htm
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That’s funny because I’ve always considered the lack of sediment on the ocean floor proof of a young earth.

Not enough mud on the sea floor.
Mud in the sea
Rivers and dust storms dump mud into the sea much faster than plate tectonic subduction can remove it.

Each year, water and winds erode about 20 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean. This material accumulates as loose sediment on the hard basaltic (lava-formed) rock of the ocean floor. The average depth of all the sediment in the whole ocean is less than 400 meters. The main way known to remove the sediment from the ocean floor is by plate tectonic subduction. That is, sea floor slides slowly (a few cm/year) beneath the continents, taking some sediment with it. According to secular scientific literature, that process presently removes only 1 billion tons per year. As far as anyone knows, the other 19 billion tons per year simply accumulate. At that rate, erosion would deposit the present mass of sediment in less than 12 million years. Yet according to evolutionary theory, erosion and plate subduction have been going on as long as the oceans have existed, an alleged three billion years. If that were so, the rates above imply that the oceans would be massively choked with sediment dozens of kilometers deep. An alternative (creationist) explanation is that erosion from the waters of the Genesis flood running off the continents deposited the present amount of sediment within a short time about 5,000 years ago.
 
Azygos said:
Your evolution scientist also accuse God of not being real…
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Maybe secular scientists who don’t want to find God. But there are also plenty of great CATHOLIC men in science. Two notable examples: Gregor Mendel, the father of genetics, and Msgr. Georges Lemaître, the creator of the Big Bang Theory. Yes, the Big Bang Theory, which secular scientists use as one of their main arguments, was created by a Catholic priest.
 
You guys need to understand that this is not a battle over Facts or Evidences but conflicting worldviews. I can provide evidences for a young earth and an evolutionist can provide evidences for an old earth. We can’t both be right but what people fail to understand is the context of how the evidences are examined. Contrary to what people believe evidences do not speak or themselves. A creationist will look at fossils and say proof of a great flood. An evolutionist will look at fossils and say proof of an old earth. Why is it that they can both look at the same evidences and come up with different conclusions? I thought the facts explained themselves. Actually the facts can’t talk, people talk and people have presuppositions (Belief Systems) built up on what they believe is already true. This affects how they interpret the evidences because they cannot leave their presuppositions out of it when looking at evidences.
 
Azygos said:
There is nothing wrong with thinking this way. If I’m wrong for believing in Creation then your also wrong for believing in Evolution as it lacks evidence and factual support. Funny how we, the creationist are the silly ones but you guys are mixing a naturalist worldview with the supernatural worldview.

As Jesus said I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. Why don’t you choose a side instead but being confused and caught in the middle.

By the way you have been drinking to much of that Godless kool aid and your antisemitism towards creationist is showing.
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I don’t understand your ‘cold/hot’ metaphor. Science and religion are NOT incompatible, mortal enemies. You don’t have to ‘pick a side’. Scientists merely seek facts about the natural world, while religion gives meaning. As the Church does not require Catholics to be creationists, I see no reason to not believe that evolution occurs. I am not less of a Catholic for doing so.

And of course, there’s nothing morally wrong with believing in creationism. Creationism is, however, not supported by a majority of credible scientists, including many who are Christians. Your claim that evolution lacks “evidence and factual support” is inaccurate, but I will not debate you about it here.

Suffice it to say that the Church is fine with theistic evolution, the scientific evidence for evolution is (in my opinion) overwhelming, and therefore, I choose to believe that evolution occurs.

You are absolutely free to believe whatever you want.
 
chartreusefox said:
I don’t understand your ‘cold/hot’ metaphor. Science and religion are NOT incompatible, mortal enemies. You don’t have to ‘pick a side’. Scientists merely seek facts about the natural world, while religion gives meaning. As the Church does not require Catholics to be creationists, I see no reason to not believe that evolution occurs. I am not less of a Catholic for doing so.

And of course, there’s nothing morally wrong with believing in creationism. Creationism is, however, not supported by a majority of credible scientists, including many who are Christians. Your claim that evolution lacks “evidence and factual support” is inaccurate, but I will not debate you about it here.

Suffice it to say that the Church is fine with theistic evolution, the scientific evidence for evolution is (in my opinion) overwhelming, and therefore, I choose to believe that evolution occurs.

You are absolutely free to believe whatever you want.
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Evolution is not science… It’s a Religion. If that offends you then you can call it a Belief System. It’s a fairy tell that cannot substantiate itself anymore than the book of genesis as far as human wisdom goes.
 
chartreusefox said:
I don’t understand your ‘cold/hot’ metaphor. Science and religion are NOT incompatible, mortal enemies. You don’t have to ‘pick a side’. Scientists merely seek facts about the natural world, while religion gives meaning. As the Church does not require Catholics to be creationists, I see no reason to not believe that evolution occurs. I am not less of a Catholic for doing so.

And of course, there’s nothing morally wrong with believing in creationism. Creationism is, however, not supported by a majority of credible scientists, including many who are Christians. Your claim that evolution lacks “evidence and factual support” is inaccurate, but I will not debate you about it here.

Suffice it to say that the Church is fine with theistic evolution, the scientific evidence for evolution is (in my opinion) overwhelming, and therefore, I choose to believe that evolution occurs.

You are absolutely free to believe whatever you want.
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Just because the majority believes something doesn’t make it true. Just because a scientist calls his theory fact does not make it true. For one the majority argument is called an ad-populum argument and it’s fallacious. Two they don’t have substantial evidence to call evolution a FACT. If they did then no one would believe in Creation. It’s not a fact it’s a theory built up on arbitrary ideas and some old earth evidences (which can be refuted with young earth evidences)
 
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