Patriarch of Moscow Cyril - There is only One Church!

[Aslan10]

I would love to see them reunited, but I think it would be wise to wait for the myaphisites to reunite with EO( while remaining myaphisites ) and the church of the east as well , followed by the Byzantine Catholics reunion with EO , followed by a decentralized papacy , followed by the reunion of an enlarged EO with the RCC .

The east would keep its objections to the Filioque and the immaculate conception of Mary while accepting them as valid ophinions in the west , Rome would keep its authority ( scaled down to some extent though ) and its unique doctrines , without forcing them on the east , and as a side lets finally have one common date for Easter .

Just my :twocents:
Keep the faith ,and happy advent , Starwars

:thumbsup:I like that plan, very much indeed.

 

[Cavaradossi]

This is as much as I can find, although I do not understand the language of the video. georgianjournal.ge/world/26558-athos-monks-passed-putin-and-the-patriarch-kirill-on-anathema.html

Aside from this one website, nobody making this claim ever seems to provide another source. If the Athonites in some official capacity (whether just one monastery or a group of them) had actually done what this website claims, it would not only have been reported on that website, but rather it would have been all over Greek websites which follow ecclesiastical news. I’m pretty certain that this is a hoax.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Some of you are optimistic about the end of east-west schism. Don’t be too optimistic, the bishop of Moscow has different opinion than the bishop of Constantinople.

Patriarch Cyril was preaching about famous Russian theologian and martyr of the 20th century, saint Illarion. The Patriarch praised saint Illarion’s teachings that the Orthodox Church is the only Church.

“Saint Illarion told them (western theologians) the Great Dogma of the Church! Which is confirmed by the Fathers of the Church and by all the Tradition of the Church of Christ. And that is that there is only One Church.
One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church! Which is Orthodoxy!” - Patriarch Cyril

Video youtube.com/watch?v=sNCB0BNXAiE

Opinions?

While I don’t fully agree with Patriarch Kyrill that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the fullness of the One True Church, I appreciate the clarity and transparency in which he states his beliefs. It’s wonderful in dialogue to know where each Church and each bishops stands, instead of the wishy-washy feel goodness that is common in protestant dialogues and in many Western Catholic circles. The Eastern, Oriental and Assyrian Churches saying that they share the same belief as the Catholic Church, that there is “One True Church” is a great leap toward union, not away from it. Of course they would believe that their Communion is that “One True” Church, or else they wouldn’t belong to it. On the other hand, look at the Anglican dialogues with the official Anglican Communion - one doesn’t know whether the words they use mean what they mean when they say it, or if they’ve found some convenient way to explain away the meaning of language to suit their political interest of the day.

 

[Peter_J]

You’re gonna have to elaborate as to why you say is isn’t from Mt. Athos. Please, explain.

I don’t have a dog in this fight; but speaking as an outside observer (but one who has been following your posts on this forum for some time) I would point out that you were the one who made the claim “the monks of Mount Athos Monastery have denounced and cursed him as a traitor to the faith and a political lap dog.” Just challenging someone else to prove that the above video *isn’t *from Mt. Athos isn’t much backup for your claim.

 

[Vaseljen]

youtube.com/watch?v=on13YeXfp_4 Video of Patriarch Cyril at Mount Athos monastery of Saint Pateleimon (Russian monastery)

youtube.com/watch?v=yAEEH8AaDks Patriarch Cyril visiting Mount Athos monastery Zograf (Bulgarian monastery)

youtube.com/watch?v=ClwVjbdFjgI Patriarch Cyril visiting Mount Athos Iveron monastery (Greek monastery)

youtube.com/watch?v=p2HlBypbIw0 Patriarch Cyril visiting Mount Athos Hilandar monastery (Serbian monastery)

Patriarch Cyril visited other monasteries, all major monasteries, and was welcomed with love and respect that bishop of Moscow deserves.

The site you pasted us here has ill intention. Someone wanted to abuse the authority Mount Athos monks enjoy, in order to demonize Patriarch Cyril.

 

[Cavaradossi]

And on a further note, it’s pretty well known that Kiril is just a yes-man for Putin. One almost wishes that they just had the Synod in Russia again instead of the patriarchate.

It is not that simple as that grotesque caricature you make. The priest who baptized me (in the GOA) wrote a paper as part of a collection of papers dedicated to analyzing relations between the US and Eastern Europe and making foreign policy recommendations, where he analyzed the situation in Russia. More often than not, Putin’s vision for the domestic future of Russia as well as his foreign policy decisions can be heavily influenced by the activity of the Russian Orthodox Church. It is true that members of the Russian Orthodox Church sometimes can fall into promoting an ideology of post-communist Russia as the last bulwark against Western decadence which is itself very useful to Putin, but by all indications, the ecclesiastics who promote this ideology do so by their own convictions, and not under duress. Putin more often than not, simply runs with what the Church says, because its narrative of a special Russian national identity under Orthodoxy is highly useful for rebuilding Russia after decades of decline. Is Patriarch Kirill perfect? No, for all have sinned. Is Vladimir Putin sincere in his Christian belief? We can’t be sure. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we really ought to consider that it might just be a duck rather than contriving elaborate explanations for what else it could be.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Is Vladimir Putin sincere in his Christian belief? We can’t be sure. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we really ought to consider that it might just be a duck rather than contriving elaborate explanations for what else it could be.

Didn’t he put away his wife of 30+ years to go along with a teenage ballet dancer?

 

[Vaseljen]

Didn’t he put away his wife of 30+ years to go along with a teenage ballet dancer?

Didn’t God tell you not to judge other People?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Didn’t God tell you not to judge other People?

You mean God told you, don’t judge people negatively, but it’s fine to judge all their acts positively? If it’s fine to judge him positively, it’s fine to judge him negatively.

Besides, I’m not even close to “judging” his eternal soul (heaven or hell), which is what the Bible is regarding anyhow.

 

[Vaseljen]

You mean God told you, don’t judge people negatively, but it’s fine to judge all their acts positively?

We should view Putin as president, he did a lot of good for his People and a lot of good for the Church there.
With whom he sleeps with is his private life and is none of our business. We should mind our own sins.

 

[SyroMalankara]

We should view Putin as president, he did a lot of good for his People and a lot of good for the Church there.
With whom he sleeps with is his private life and is none of our business. We should mind our own sins.

I see. So we can “judge” his good, but not his bad. Is it allowable to comment on the negative repercussions of his actions in Ukraine?

Which of these is his 'quacking like a duck"?

 

[Vaseljen]

I see. So we can “judge” his good, but not his bad. Is it allowable to comment on the negative repercussions of his actions in Ukraine?

Which of these is his 'quacking like a duck"?

You can judge his actions in Ukraine, because that is politics, not his private life. You judge him as a president then. But again, Ukraine was at peace and was untied, until USA and it’s EU friends didn’t start that pathetic Maidan business. Then neo-NAZIs took control over Kiev, and the only logical thing that could happen is civil war. You think that Ukraine’s Russians want to live in a country that started to praise or tolerate Banderists again. Or maybe Russia should surrender Crimea to the USA (Puppet Ukraine)? Let’s not forget that Soviet dictator Hrushchov, who was from Ukraine, took away Crimea from Russia in 1950s and he put it in to Ukraine, just like that. Now Putin took Crimea away from Ukraine and put it in to Russia, just like that too. LOL

But these are politics and not a subject of this theme.

 

[SyroMalankara]

You can judge his actions in Ukraine, because that is politics, not his private life. You judge him as a president then. But again, Ukraine was at peace and was untied, until USA and it’s EU friends didn’t start that pathetic Maidan business. Then neo-NAZIs took control over Kiev, and the only logical thing that could happen is civil war. You think that Ukraine’s Russians want to live in a country that started to praise Badnerists again. Or maybe Russia should surrender Crimea to the USA (Puppet Ukraine)? Let’s not forget that Soviet dictator Hrushchov, who was from Ukraine, took away Crimea from Russia in 1950s and he put it in to Ukraine, just like that. Now Putin took Crimea away from Ukraine and put it in to Russia, just like that too. LOL

But these are politics and not a subject of this theme.

Yes, when it’s convenient to ignore, it’s personal and shouldn’t be discussed; when it’s politics, Putin’s always right; and when it’s ecclesial, Putin is a saint. What’s there to discuss?

 

[Cavaradossi]

Didn’t he put away his wife of 30+ years to go along with a teenage ballet dancer?

I didn’t argue that he’s a paragon of Christian virtue (though I’m not sure any of us know the personal details of his separation from his wife, which nevertheless was lamentable). Neither were many Christian kings for that matter. I’m saying that if it looks like the Putin is simply latching on to the Russian Orthodox Church as a source of Russian national identity in a recovering post-communist Russia, we ought to take that at face value rather than arguing that the tail nefarious wags the dog for its own purposes.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I didn’t argue that he’s a paragon of Christian virtue (though I’m not sure any of us know the personal details of his separation from his wife, which nevertheless was lamentable). Neither were many Christian kings for that matter. I’m saying that if it looks like the Putin is simply latching on to the Russian Orthodox Church as a source of Russian national identity in a recovering post-communist Russia, we ought to take that at face value rather than arguing that the tail wags the dog.

I agree with you here. Although, I’d say Pan-Slavic identity, rather than Russian national. Putin’s overall goal is to expand (reclaim) the lands lost after the Soviet disintegration (under his rule of course).

 

[Vaseljen]

Yes, when it’s convenient to ignore, it’s personal and shouldn’t be discussed; when it’s politics, Putin’s always right; and when it’s ecclesial, Putin is a saint. What’s there to discuss?

Putin is brilliant in politics and far lesser hypocrite than the western politicians, at least when it comes to foreign politics. If you want Russia to give up on it’s interests, then good luck with that and keep hating.

 

[Peter_J]

You can judge his actions in Ukraine, because that is politics, not his private life. You judge him as a president then. But again, Ukraine was at peace and was untied, until USA and it’s EU friends didn’t start that pathetic Maidan business. Then neo-NAZIs took control over Kiev, and the only logical thing that could happen is civil war.

I’m generally one of the first people to object when this forum turns into open-season-on-the-Orthodox (I’m just assuming that you haven’t been reading my posts for very long and hence didn’t already know that) but likewise I feel a duty to object to this ^^ nonsense.

 

[Vaseljen]

I agree with you here. Although, I’d say Pan-Slavic identity, rather than Russian national. Putin’s overall goal is to expand (reclaim) the lands lost after the Soviet disintegration (under his rule of course).

Still more logical than to let USA have those lands. You would like Yeltsin more, when Russians lived like pigs and worked entire month for few dollars, while US corporations were draining Russia’s resources.

 

[Vaseljen]

I’m generally one of the first people to object when this forum turns into open-season-on-the-Orthodox (I’m just assuming that you haven’t been reading my posts for very long and hence didn’t already know that) but likewise I feel a duty to object to this ^^ nonsense.

youtube.com/watch?v=dKMzwhHzRps This was illegal thing to do until Yanukovich’s fall. Now neo-NAZIs organize parades that praise Banderist regime that committed massive genocide against ethnic Russians in Ukraine during Hitler’s offensive. They burned over 100 Russians alive in Odessa. Why should Russians in Ukraine, or even Russia tolerate that?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Putin is brilliant in politics and far lesser hypocrite than the western politicians, at least when it comes to foreign politics. If you want Russia to give up on it’s interests, then good luck with that and keep hating.

I wouldn’t expect Russia to give up on it’s interests, and I don’t hate Russia - however, comparing degrees of hypocrisy among politicians is comical. I have been just as direct with those that supported George Bush’s “Christian” President claims, especially regarding his invasion of Iraq. However, in his personal life - which is much more revealing of a politician’s real religious praxis, rather than grandiose public gestures - he’s been an virtuous husband, a good father, a honorable son; at least as far as we know – I would say the same for Jimmy Carter.