Paul Corrupted/Created Christianity

[swariffin]

Proverbs 2:

1My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;

3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

4If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

6For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Are you calling God a liar? What I said does not go against this promise given by Him.

Not at all. For sure God has fulfilled His promised, by sending His own word and make His own word to become human, whom we know as Jesus. You believe that God did not lie nor deceive, that is great:thumbsup:. I find a lot of strange arguments from those who believe that God deceives people.

 

[rinnie]

Does “I AM” = God?

Read your own scripture. Who does your scripture say I AM is?

 

[ralphinal]

Thank you darlin’… so, if ‘I AM’ = God, then Jesus was not making a confession that he was God; rather, he was saying that God existed prior to Abraham. If I AM is a Name for God, then you have no confession being made here.

And so why did the Jews look to stone him for saying it? Context! Context! Context! In the verse you mention, he was establishing that he existed before Abraham. John the Baptist said that Jesus existed before he did, even though John was born first!

In the verse that I mentioned, Jesus used it as part of his prophacy that he would die and rise again.

 

[rinnie]

Thank you darlin’… so, if ‘I AM’ = God, then Jesus was not making a confession that he was God; rather, he was saying that God existed prior to Abraham. If I AM is a Name for God, then you have no confession being made here.

No I am is not just A NAME for God. I AM IS GOD. Jesus said before Abraham I AM. Jesus did not say that God existed before Abraham. That would be a foolish thing to say. Are you telling me that the Jews did not know that God existed before Abraham. Think what you are saying.

Okay try twisting this one around.

John 14:7 If you know me then you will also know the Father, From now on you do know him and HAVE SEEN HIM.

John 14:9 Jesus said to him Have I veen with you so long a time and you still do not know me Philip? Whoever has seen me has SEEN THE FATHER. How can you say show us the Father. Do you not believe that I AM in the Father and the Father is IN ME.

Believe me I AM in the father and the Father is in more or else believe because of the works themselves.

There are no clearer words. Jesus said point blank that he is God the Father. Jesus is the Lord. If you deny Jesus Christ you clearly deny Jesus Christ. If you deny Holy Scripture you are saying that the Holy Spirit lies also, because Holy Scripture is God breathed by the Holy Spirit. There is no other way that anyone can make this any more clear to you. Paul. John all of the Apostles did not make up these words. They came from God, just like he promised. He took away death, death has no power over us any longer. You are of the light or of the dark Jesus tells you that.

Jesus said I AM the true vine. and the Father is the vine grower. Remain in me as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine so neither can You umless you REMAIN IN ME. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a vrance and wither people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

You cannot dare tell us that our scripture that comes from God and the Holy Spirit and Jesus is not true. Jesus is God the God of Abraham. If your God is the God of Abraham he is Jesus Christ. IF not you are correct we do not have the same God. And you and I honor and obey different Gods.

SO the real question comes to a head does it not? Do you have the same God as Abraham. Yes or No. I am sure from what you have said we can all guess the true answer. But I am a fair person, and will let you answer for yourself. If you do believe in the God of Abraham you and I have the same God. And when I enter his church today I pray that he gives you his mercy for all the thing’s you have said. If you do not have the same God the God of Abraham you and I are not of the same God, and there is no more to be said.

 

[simplynoone]

Not at all. For sure God has fulfilled His promised, by sending His own word and make His own word to become human, whom we know as Jesus. You believe that God did not lie nor deceive, that is great:thumbsup:. I find a lot of strange arguments from those who believe that God deceives people.

1My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;

3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

4If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

6For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Re-read please and tell me… where in here is there anything that says that He would teach me from the mouth of a man named Jesus? How can Jesus teach me from his mouth when he no longer is even around? It is odd, the way some of you think.

 

[simplynoone]

Read your own scripture. Who does your scripture say I AM is?

??? God? I am unsure how you are not understanding what I am telling you here. If I AM is a Name attributed to God, then Jesus was not saying HE existed before Abraham, but that God existed before. I could say “Rinnie, long before you existed, I AM” … and all I am saying is that before you existed, God did. If Jesus said, I am I AM; then you have a man that blasphemed… but Jesus did not say I am I AM. Clever, eh?

 

[simplynoone]

And so why did the Jews look to stone him for saying it? Context! Context! Context! In the verse you mention, he was establishing that he existed before Abraham. John the Baptist said that Jesus existed before he did, even though John was born first!

In the verse that I mentioned, Jesus used it as part of his prophacy that he would die and rise again.

Uhm… I put everything into context. Here is the bottom line… Jesus does not ONCE claim that he is God. Not once… if He WAS God, then God lied. It is that simple; regardless of if Jesus even DID claim to be God, then God lied. God said He is not a man. He is not a man. He is not a man. He is not a man. Then He said that He does not change. If He became a man, then God changed and therefore lied. It is so simple that even my youngest son can grasp this concept. If Jesus is God, then God lied. How does this not make sense to you?

I choose to trust God… but not based on a blind faith… I trust Him because He has proved Himself to me when I rid myself once and for all of the strange god. Isaiah testifies, in fact, that I am not lying in what I say. WHY WOULD YOU PUT YOUR TRUST IN A GOD THAT WOULD LIE TO YOU? Because if you believe Jesus, a man, is God, then you believe that God lies… that is worthy of your trust?

 

[simplynoone]

Think what you are saying.

Think about what I am saying? I would urge the same for you because again, if Jesus was God, then God lied. You are, by saying that Jesus is God, declaring God to be a liar.

Okay try twisting this one around.
John 14:7 If you know me then you will also know the Father, From now on you do know him and HAVE SEEN HIM.
John 14:9 Jesus said to him Have I veen with you so long a time and you still do not know me Philip? Whoever has seen me has SEEN THE FATHER. How can you say show us the Father. Do you not believe that I AM in the Father and the Father is IN ME.

There is no great confession being made in the above verses. If there is, then Jesus is a liar or you are saying that God is a liar. It is one or the other.

Believe me I AM in the father and the Father is in more or else believe because of the works themselves.

I am in the Father… but I am not God. I am of God, but I am not God. There is a difference.

Example… Let’s say the Ocean represents God. If you take a drop of water out of the ocean and bring home to your kitchen, would you be right to say that the ocean is now in your kitchen? No… a drop of water that is from the ocean is in your kitchen. The Ocean is still where it was. Is that drop of water the ocean? no… transfer logic to Jesus.

There are no clearer words. Jesus said point blank that he is God the Father.

Uh… no he did not. Point blank would have been to say, “I am God the Father.” THAT would be point blank. A jewish person could say they are gods and they would not be wrong and in the same token, they would not be saying that they are God. Only that they are OF God.

Psalm 82 testifies to this being true.

Jesus is the Lord. If you deny Jesus Christ you clearly deny Jesus Christ.

I am sure you meant that if I deny Jesus, than I clearly deny God. If I deny any of the Son of God, then I am denying God. But I do not. I recognize who is the Son of God… but Jesus was not the ONLY Son of God. By elevating one to the status of God and denying the rest, you are denying God.

If you deny Holy Scripture you are saying that the Holy Spirit lies also, because Holy Scripture is God breathed by the Holy Spirit.

No worries, I am not denying the Word of God. You however have just made a confession… so whoo hoooo!! progress! After all, the Scriptures say:

Hosea 11:
9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
10 They shall walk after the LORD: he shall roar like a lion: when he shall roar, then the children shall tremble from the west.

Isaiah 46:
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying,** My counsel shall stand**, and I will do all my pleasure:

Malachi 3: 6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jeremiah 23: 18
For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
I HAVE

Now, dear Rinnie… read what you wrote to me again.

There is no other way that anyone can make this any more clear to you. Paul. John all of the Apostles did not make up these words. They came from God, just like he promised. He took away death, death has no power over us any longer. You are of the light or of the dark Jesus tells you that.

DEATH STILL OCCURS… SO WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I do not understand this. My brother died. My uncle died. My grandmother and grandfather died. My other grandfather is about to die. Two friends that I was close to in my younger years died. Death has not been taken away. You can not convince me othewise. To say it has is to have your eyes closed to the OBVIOUS Truth.

You cannot dare tell us that our scripture that comes from God and the Holy Spirit and Jesus is not true.

I am telling you that the Scriptures ARE true. You all are the ones telling me they are not true.

SO the real question comes to a head does it not? Do you have the same God as Abraham. Yes or No. I am sure from what you have said we can all guess the true answer. But I am a fair person, and will let you answer for yourself. If you do believe in the God of Abraham you and I have the same God. And when I enter his church today I pray that he gives you his mercy for all the thing’s you have said. If you do not have the same God the God of Abraham you and I are not of the same God, and there is no more to be said.

Yes… I am taught by, loved fiercly by, secure in, trusting of, resting in, enlightened by the same God as Abraham. The God who called me out is One in the same as the God who called out Abraham. There was no Church or man needed to intercede between Abraham and God and there is no need for a church or a man now to serve as a spokesperson between God and myself. You can offer me a guarantee that I would not ever die along with all the wealth and power in this world and I STILL WILL NEVER TURN AWAY FROM HIM!!! How could I? My Life is enriched that He would even take notice of me because I was, after all, simply noone; that is, until the Almighty redeemed me in His knowledge and understanding. Jesus, as good of a person as I am sure he was, does not compare to the Almighty.

 

[simplynoone]

And thank you for using your superior mind to ignore what I wrote. It is living life for others that we can truly enjoy life. I do not know what that is so hard to understand.

Oh wow! I had missed this great compliment. I assure you, my mind is not superior… just in use… foreign to most, I know.

 

[rinnie]

Then if it is the scripture you believe in you would believe who Jesus Christ is. But we have once again the Church to teach us scripture. Not Simply no one. But you in part have yourself. So you have simply no one. That really is the point. Are we going to let our Pope who has apostolic succession teach us the scripture. Or simplynoone. I think you know the answer to that. And your understanding of scripture and the way you try to turn it around (which may I add does not add up at all) So I will once again stick with the Church. I showed you where Jesus Said I AM. There is nothing else I can do. You can twist and turn all you want, but you are only leading yourself away from the truth. The true light of the World. Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. And unless you study and learn the true meaning of scripture, and rely on yourself once more, that is who you will be left with. Simply no one.

 

[simplynoone]

Then if it is the scripture you believe in you would believe who Jesus Christ is. But we have once again the Church to teach us scripture. Not Simply no one. But you in part have yourself. So you have simply no one.

Yes… you do speak some truth here Rinnie. I am quite loved by those around me and so to abandon all of that for this Voice that was so distinct was not easy for me in the beginning. To discard everything that gave me the security that I was so accustomed to was not easy. To be left without anything familiar truly showed me the meaning of the narrow path that few find and will follow. I live surrounded by a sea of people who follow after the blind faith… I am walking the opposite direction than EVERYONE else that I know. This, at times, does make me feel like simply noone. This is truth. But, I heard the distinct sound of His Voice and in the end, for whatever reasons, I HAD TO find that… at any and all costs. I even cried out that I would spend eternity in hell if I had to… but I was determined to find THAT Truth that I knew was calling to me.

I am not after eternity… I am not after immortality… I am not after anything but the Truth. I have been deceived often by man… thus, even the Bible failed as proof for me.

Rinnie… I threw it out altogether. I was raised Christian, but the questions, the inconsistencies were too much to ignore… those questions that I was scolded for and punished for, and belittled for (in front of my peers, mind you) asking were too overwhelming to just accept what I was being told by man. I threw the Bible across the room (literally!) and cried out that I just wanted the Truth no matter what. If God threw me in hell (the Christian view of hell, that is) for wanting to know, then that is a cruel God anyway… if I can not trust Him to allow me to question, then I can not trust Him anyway.

So, being wrong in your eyes means little to me. Being right in the Truth no matter how scary is all that I care about. The Christian view is not consistent AS I HAVE SHOWN with the foundation that it relies on for its existence. That is the Truth that even you can see; else you would have used Scripture from the foundation to prove me wrong. You have not done so. If I am tossed into a physical fire for believing the foundation… at least I will be there with a clear conscience for having believed the foundation and not for sucking up to the lies to save my soul. That is all I have… the foundation… I believe what He said the first time around and the promises He made… in the end, I found that I had reason for doing such.

That really is the point. Are we going to let our Pope who has apostolic succession teach us the scripture. Or simplynoone. I think you know the answer to that.

Hold up here… do not compare ME to the Pope. I have done more for you all than your pope in that I HAVE SAID… DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT… search for yourselves. I do not believe that I am the revealing of God’s Word… only HE can reveal it to you. The Pope knows I am right; thus, he needs you to believe that only HE has the authority to interpret it. I say that God declares it as it is meant to be. What he, the pope, deceives you into being old is happening NOW. Search it… know it… and ask for God’s understanding. I am not afraid for you to search; and in that, your pope and I are different. By the way, mark this down and take notes, I was fond of your last pope by no fault of my own and cried (along w/ my best friend) when he passed. As a human being, I sensed that he had a good heart despite his lack of understanding the Truth… which makes me think that he was nothing more than a front man to gather more into the deception and then disposed of when his words made people think and consider. Just my two cents on him. This pope… sinister… what is up with the alien talk coming from his camp? Accepting “aliens” as our brothers and sisters in christ? that seems to be setting people up for some kind of deception. Weird.

 

[swariffin]

1My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;

3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

4If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

6For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Re-read please and tell me… where in here is there anything that says that He would teach me from the mouth of a man named Jesus? How can Jesus teach me from his mouth when he no longer is even around? It is odd, the way some of you think.

I was referring to the word of God. If you have another perception of the word of God, surely I respect yours.

 

[rinnie]

Simplnoone. You ask me to show you in scripture where it say that Jesus says he is God. I show you he says I AM. You cannot accept that you say not he says I AM NOT.

You must continue to take scripture out of context, twist the words of God to fit into your belief. You must ask yourself why. I am sure you do. You must also ask yourself why are you so insecure now. THat is simple without Love for Jesus Christ and the promise of eternal life I can understand that insecurity.

If you think for a moment I compared you to the Pope, Let me please tell you this. NEVER. Never would I compare you to the Pope. You not only turn the words of God around now you also take my words and do that. You may not realize what you are doing but maybe now you can see. When I said I have the Pope and the Church to teach me scripture I never meant for a second that you could. So see, Maybe that can open your eyes. Simply NO ONE here has taken a thing you have said seriously. When the Pope speaks now that we take to our heart and soul. When you speak we have nothing but pity for you.

 

[simplynoone]

Simplnoone. You ask me to show you in scripture where it say that Jesus says he is God. I show you he says I AM. You cannot accept that you say not he says I AM NOT.

You must continue to take scripture out of context, twist the words of God to fit into your belief. You must ask yourself why. I am sure you do. You must also ask yourself why are you so insecure now. THat is simple without Love for Jesus Christ and the promise of eternal life I can understand that insecurity.

If you think for a moment I compared you to the Pope, Let me please tell you this. NEVER. Never would I compare you to the Pope. You not only turn the words of God around now you also take my words and do that. You may not realize what you are doing but maybe now you can see. When I said I have the Pope and the Church to teach me scripture I never meant for a second that you could. So see, Maybe that can open your eyes. Simply NO ONE here has taken a thing you have said seriously. When the Pope speaks now that we take to our heart and soul. When you speak we have nothing but pity for you.

Glad to see you are in a good mood today Rinnie!

Exodus 3:

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Do you have any concept of what God meant by I AM THAT I AM? My speculation based on the whole of the Tanakh is that there is a punctuation mark missing in that Name which is key to understanding the concept in its entirety and in understanding the place of Jesus as well as the Chosen People of God.

The Voice that spoke from the midst of the “burning bush” said to Moses, tell the children that I AM sent you. If you had been Moses, according to your view of I AM, you would have fallen down and started worshiping the bush because the concept of what it is being said escapes you.

 

[rinnie]

Simplynoone, We have nothing to search. We have it all in the RCC. All we have to do is study and learn. THe more we study and learn the more closer we become to our Lord Jesus Christ. I am sorry you had to give up Jesus Christ in order to feel loved. I would ask myself about that also. Why would anyone make me do that to feel loved. I am loved and secure with my family. and my Church, and my God. That sounds more like God to me. I would ask myself also why did you feel the need to shed them tears for our Pope. I think because even though you have a hard time accepting Jesus Christ he is still deep inside you. His arms are always wide open ready to accept you back. Please never forget that. You should take some time and read up on this new Pope. I like you loved John Paul ll. I felt so much closer to him. But then I read some of the books of the new Pope is is also awesome. He has now also found a big place in my heart.

If you could get means to the book Jesus of Nazareth, You would see the reason he is who God has chosen to lead his Church. The man is awesome, And his knowledge of the faith is at such a level of understanding. Unlike me. I will admit. You can knock me, my kmowledge, and my education. But his knowledge will show you what God wants you to see. I pray some how you can gain entry to his readings and words. He can show you what we cannot.

 

[simplynoone]

Simplynoone, We have nothing to search. We have it all in the RCC. All we have to do is study and learn. THe more we study and learn the more closer we become to our Lord Jesus Christ. I am sorry you had to give up Jesus Christ in order to feel loved. I would ask myself about that also. Why would anyone make me do that to feel loved. I am loved and secure with my family. and my Church, and my God.

I did not give up the faith of Christianity to feel loved Rinnie. I said, I am very loved by those around me. It was not about love to me… thus, I abandoned it at the risk of losing that “feeling of love.” It was and is about knowing the Truth. I do not care that others make fun of me… that is nothing. I do not care that others do not understand why I do not just blindly accept what it is I am told by a fancy suited (or robed) guy who has lots of money and power… that is nothing to me. I do care to know, learn, and grow in the Truth of God. I do care about not allowing my mind to go to waste. I do care about what it is that God is creating even now. I do care about seeking after His Ways and being enlightened by His gorgeous Laws.

Faith is about feelings and since feelings are subject to change, so is one’s faith subject to change; thus the need for a man to soothe those feelings and to give you purpose. There is not a solid foundation in feelings. There is rather a solid foundation in knowledge of God despite what one may feel… and so, it is His knowledge I am after and not the feelings… if it had been about feelings, you can be assured that I would not have abandoned all the things that MAN had told me to put my faith in.

 

[simplynoone]

If you could get means to the book Jesus of Nazareth, You would see the reason he is who God has chosen to lead his Church. The man is awesome, And his knowledge of the faith is at such a level of understanding. Unlike me. I will admit. You can knock me, my kmowledge, and my education. But his knowledge will show you what God wants you to see. I pray some how you can gain entry to his readings and words. He can show you what we cannot.

Fair enough. I will look for the book and give it a go; however, this will not change what I know, which is this… that God is not a man. If Jesus is God, then God is a liar and I for one do know that God indeed is NOT a liar. I have another book to read that is vital to where I am wanting to go in my life, but will make your suggestion the next in line. By the way Rinnie, I am not against you personally. I appreciate that you have calmed down with me and discussed this. I never close myself off to learning and have learned much through this opposition of views. My whole point is this: If you are right and Jesus is God, then God can not be trusted for He is become a liar. This can not be reconciled any other way since God said He was not a man; that His counsel shall stand; and that He does not change.

 

[rinnie]

Glad to see you are in a good mood today Rinnie!

Exodus 3:

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Do you have any concept of what God meant by I AM THAT I AM? My speculation based on the whole of the Tanakh is that there is a punctuation mark missing in that Name which is key to understanding the concept in its entirety and in understanding the place of Jesus as well as the Chosen People of God.

The Voice that spoke from the midst of the “burning bush” said to Moses, tell the children that I AM sent you. If you had been Moses, according to your view of I AM, you would have fallen down and started worshiping the bush because the concept of what it is being said escapes you.

But see that is the difference and the problem with you and I. I can not go by your SPECULATION. I must go by the Truth. And it has to be the whole truth, nothing but the truth, So help me God. The fullness of the Truth. And you will only find that in the RCC.

Now see, you did it again, Now did you ask me if I thought the burning bush was God. No, You did to me again, what you keep doing to scripture. (see what I mean?) We will call it again, what you call it, your speculation, See your speculation is again wrong. I never for a second thought that the burning bush was God. I know the voice was God, not the bush. But now you just contradicted yourself also. But I will again let you explain. So here is the question.

Quote: Tell the Children that I AM Sent you. unquote. Now tell me who is I AM?

 

[rinnie]

I did not give up the faith of Christianity to feel loved Rinnie. I said, I am very loved by those around me. It was not about love to me… thus, I abandoned it at the risk of losing that “feeling of love.” It was and is about knowing the Truth. I do not care that others make fun of me… that is nothing. I do not care that others do not understand why I do not just blindly accept what it is I am told by a fancy suited (or robed) guy who has lots of money and power… that is nothing to me. I do care to know, learn, and grow in the Truth of God. I do care about not allowing my mind to go to waste. I do care about what it is that God is creating even now. I do care about seeking after His Ways and being enlightened by His gorgeous Laws.

Faith is about feelings and since feelings are subject to change, so is one’s faith subject to change; thus the need for a man to soothe those feelings and to give you purpose. There is not a solid foundation in feelings. There is rather a solid foundation in knowledge of God despite what one may feel… and so, it is His knowledge I am after and not the feelings… if it had been about feelings, you can be assured that I would not have abandoned all the things that MAN had told me to put my faith in.

But see that is the point that you have missed. Do you believe at all in the teaching’s of the Apostles?

 

[rinnie]

Fair enough. I will look for the book and give it a go; however, this will not change what I know, which is this… that God is not a man. If Jesus is God, then God is a liar and I for one do know that God indeed is NOT a liar. I have another book to read that is vital to where I am wanting to go in my life, but will make your suggestion the next in line. By the way Rinnie, I am not against you personally. I appreciate that you have calmed down with me and discussed this. I never close myself off to learning and have learned much through this opposition of views. My whole point is this: If you are right and Jesus is God, then God can not be trusted for He is become a liar. This can not be reconciled any other way since God said He was not a man; that His counsel shall stand; and that He does not change.

I know that you may not or cannot understand this. But you are against me personally. Because Jesus said you are either with me or you are against me. If I am with Jesus, and you deny Jesus and do not accept him as your Lord and Savior, you are against him correct? So if you are against him. and I am with him. How can you not be against me also? To me when you say that If Jesus is God, God is a liar, do you realize how hurtfull and evil those words are, They are like a razor cutting my heart. Jesus is both human and divine. Both God and human.