And I hope that all Catholics are not deceived by the so-called non-negotiables that some are espousing, and instead look at ALL issues. And that they use their God-given reason, logic, intuition, and critical thinking skills to make an informed decision on who they choose to vote for.
Seriously:thumbsup:
I’ve never said that Catholics shouldn’t look at ALL issues, so where is the deception? You, on the other hand have dismissed Church teaching regarding the consideration of abortion, marriage and other issues when voting and have taken positions counter to the Church.
Heresy? Seriously?
Are you CatholicHeresy? Seriously?
If the last election is an example, your disagreement is not just with me, but is with the majority of Catholics who examined all issues when voting, and who were not beholden to the so-called non-negotiables.
Please stop with the uncharitable “your’re not catholic” remarks. Just because one holds a differing political view than you does not give one the right to attack one’s religious convictions. By your definition the 50+% of Catholics who voted for Obama “aren’t catholic”Are you Catholic
Excuse me? Uncharitable? I asked if the op was Catholic,how is that uncharitable?Please stop with the uncharitable “your’re not catholic” remarks. Just because one holds a differing political view than you does not give one the right to attack one’s religious convictions. By your definition the 50+% of Catholics who voted for Obama “aren’t catholic”
Your stated views regarding abortion and marriage have nothing to do with “examining all issues.” You’ve stated beliefs on those issues that are contrary to the Church and therefore heresy. Other posters have challenged the relative importance of these issues, but that isn’t the same as taking positions contrary to the Church.Heresy? Seriously?
If the last election is an example, your disagreement is not just with me, but is with the majority of Catholics who examined all issues when voting, and who were not beholden to the so-called non-negotiables.
It’s a fair question, when the poster questioned doesn’t have their faith listed.Please stop with the uncharitable “your’re not catholic” remarks. Just because one holds a differing political view than you does not give one the right to attack one’s religious convictions. By your definition the 50+% of Catholics who voted for Obama “aren’t catholic”
Thank you for your information, Phoenix. It sounds like unfortunately in some small pockets of the US, there are really bad conditions. I would argue whether or not those conditions rise to the level of 3rd world poverty. But in any case, the plight of the Pine Ridge reservation is one deserving of attention and hopefully relief. Thanks again for enlightening me as to the situation there, and I’m glad we’re on the same team too.As for the 3 million kids, I’m not the one who made such a claim. Even if there were 3 million kids living in poverty in the USA, for whatever reason … abortion would not be an acceptable answer.
As for Pine Ridge, I heard about a year or so ago that a company had started up there selling specialized buffalo meat made according to the ancient ways, so at least a few of the tribe members are able to find local employment. Charity of course is good, able-bodied men and women working self-sufficiently is even better. That’s what Pine Ridge really needs are business opportunities … Why aren’t there more? Well again, that would be a topic for a whole different thread.
As for your last sentence, however, it now looks like my topic is indeed relevant to the topic of this thread after all. In the earliest days of our nation, the Native Americans had ties to the President of the United States. The Seneca tribe even has a legend about what happened to George Washington after his death … I know, because I’m part Seneca and decided to read up a little bit on the history of my tribe. President Washington was once called “Town Destroyer” by the Seneca based on what happened during the Revolutionary War, but eventually peace was made between them … the legend reflects this history. Even today, the Bureau of Indian Affairs exists within the U.S. Department of the Interior, which I assume falls under the Executive Branch of government. So I would think that a President could have quite a say in policy affecting Native Americans.
With all that said, yes, as a pro-life Catholic who at one time was a member of the Pro-Life Party in New York State rather than a Republican, and then eventually switched to being a pro-life Reagan Republican, I fully understand the moral necessity of voting according to the teachings of the Catholic Church when it comes to the non-negotiables, and I put pro-life issues and candidates at the top of the list.
In fact, if you were familiar with me here on CAF, you would know that I vote pro-life, have attended the March for Life in Washington more than once, and at one point have even lost a job due to my being pro-life, as you can see if you take a look at some of the prayer request threads I started several years ago in the Prayer Intentions section of CAF.
So I’m here to tell you that yes, we’re on the same team!
~~ the phoenix
Some would say that the 50+% of the catholics who voted for Obama were ignorant of the requirements of catholics to not vote for intrinsic evils. That ignorance was on display in 2008, and unfortunately, 2012. Now, a year later, with more and more light shed on just what kind of president Obama is, there is less and less an excuse for the kind of ignorance that would cause a catholic to support him.Please stop with the uncharitable “your’re not catholic” remarks. Just because one holds a differing political view than you does not give one the right to attack one’s religious convictions. By your definition the 50+% of Catholics who voted for Obama “aren’t catholic”
Mulligan, not all issues are of the same moral gravity. For example, where the candidate stands on funding for national parks is not as morally grave as where a candidate stands on infanticide. Would you agree?
Agreed. Not all Catholics who voted for Obama support heresy. In many cases they are just ignorant of Church teaching. This is especially true with the issue of civil unions, as a lot of people don’t realize that the Church is opposed to them as being equivalent to “gay marriage.” With abortion, many Catholics are under the mistaken notion that it is licit to be “personally opposed” but politically pro-choice.
The poster stated such, when he said that the “five non-negotiables” are nanny statism.
With a few exceptions, I believe the much of the reason why so many catholics voted for Obama or support heretical views is a failure of catechesis. While I hear it is improving, I think there is a long way to go. Also heard that the so-called “catholic vote” that supported Obama included “cultural catholics” who don’t go to mass but were baptized catholic and still identify as such - i.e. they are not practicing catholics, which is a whole different problem. Among Catholics who actually attend mass regularly, I don’t believe nearly 50% voted for Obama.
Thank you SaintAugustine.
Father Drinan was most assuredly a tragedy and a scandal. But he wasn’t that most pro-abortion congressman. That award goes to Barack Obama.
According to Pew, 41% of Catholics attend mass at least once a week.
