Paul Ryan Discussion

[EmperorNapoleon]

never heard of any president being asked for their college transcripts. Has that always been the norm?

It hasn’t been the norm for presidential candidates to release their college transcripts but GWB’s were leaked to the press. The interest there was that he nearly failed high school and bombed out of a community college so some people wanted to know how he managed to get into Yale and what his GPA was. I believe Kerry’s transcripts were also leaked. The demand for Obama to release his Columbia transcripts is the new face of the birther movement; started by some random guy who claims he never saw Obama on the Columbia campus.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

It hasn’t been the norm for presidential candidates to release their college transcripts but GWB’s were leaked to the press. The demand for Obama to release his Columbia transcripts is the new face of the birther movement; started by some random guy who claims he never saw Obama on the Columbia campus.

Close. He actually said that neither he, nor anyone in the same department as his, could recall ever having seen Obama. We’re not talking 1 or 2 people here; we’re talking every single person that this gentleman knew in a smallish department.

I will turn this around a bit: what possible reason would the President have for not releasing his transcripts?

 

[JoeBowen7]

I have stated many times…I will not be supporting either candidate. I am not concerned with trying to convince this crowd against Obama. My focus is on RR which is what this thread is about. Something very concerning about your statement. “A Mormon bishop, upstanding man of god.”. Notice anything different between my quote and yours?

I personally can understand this point of view. I don;t see why everyone has to accept either the Democrat or the Republican. There have been abortions under both regimes, and it was in the millions under either Republican or Democrat. Besides, they are both for useless foreign interventions. What good came of the Vietnam war? All those lives lost and all that money spent for what? Who gained? And now we read in the news that Iraq, supposedly our ally, is helping Iran overcome the sanctions put on it by the Western powers. In afghanistan, we read that soldiers that the US has trained and armed and paid for, are now turning their guns on Nato troops and killing them? How honest is the present leader of Afghanistan? Where does all the American money go? Who is profiting? I don’t see either party changing things much, although there will be a lot of speeches.

 

[meltzerboy]

Close. He actually said that neither he, nor anyone in the same department as his, could recall ever having seen Obama. We’re not talking 1 or 2 people here; we’re talking every single person that this gentleman knew in a smallish department.

I will turn this around a bit: what possible reason would the President have for not releasing his transcripts?

Let’s have a swap: Obama will release his complete college transcripts and Romney will release five years of his tax returns. Now, where’s that phone number to the Oval Office?

 

[DeSanto]

You have previously expressed a prejudice against Mormons. It’s not something I would find a source of pride but to each his own.

Lisa

I don’t see it as a prejudice. I see it as following the teaching of the church. Scripture states very clearly that we are to have nothing to do with anything that worships false gods and false prophets. Not to even inquire of it. We are not to worship false gods or give our approval to one that does. This is not my opinion, this is the Word of God. Go against Him at your own peril. Romney can do what he wants, I don’t have to support it.

 

[ProVobis]

The Republican Platform on life issues has not changed since 2004.

The U.S. Republican Party

2008: “Faithful to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence, we assert the inherent dignity and sanctity of all human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life…”[71]

2004: “As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.” [72]

2000: “Ban abortion with Constitutional amendment. We say the unborn child has a fundamental right to life. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation that the 14th Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect the sanctity of innocent human life.” [73]

2000: “Alternatives like adoption, instead of punitive action. Our goal is to ensure that women with problem pregnancies have the kind of support, material and otherwise, they need for themselves and for their babies, not to be punitive towards those for whose difficult situation we have only compassion. We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption services.” [73]

The U.S. Democratic Party

2008: “The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to choose a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay, and we oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.The Democratic Party also strongly supports access to affordable family planning services and comprehensive age-appropriate sex education which empower people to make informed choices and live healthy lives. We also recognize that such health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. The Democratic Party also strongly supports a woman’s decision to have a child by ensuring access to and availability of programs for pre and post natal health care, parenting skills, income support, and caring adoption programs.” [74]

2004: “Support right to choose even if mother cannot pay. Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman’s right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay. We stand firmly against Republican efforts to undermine that right. At the same time, we strongly support family planning and adoption incentives. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.” [75]

2000: “Choice is a fundamental, constitutional right. Democrats stand behind the right of every woman to choose. We believe it is a constitutional liberty. This year’s Supreme Court ruling show us that eliminating a woman’s right to choose is only one justice away. Our goal is to make abortion more rare, not more dangerous. We support contraceptive research, family planning, comprehensive family life education, and policies that support healthy childbearing.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Close. He actually said that neither he, nor anyone in the same department as his, could recall ever having seen Obama. We’re not talking 1 or 2 people here; we’re talking every single person that this gentleman knew in a smallish department.

If I were to show you a picture of someone who may have been sitting in the same room as you nearly 30 years ago would you remember who they are or having ever even noticed them? Besides, his roommates remember him and there were articles written by him published in the school paper.

I will turn this around a bit: what possible reason would the President have for not releasing his transcripts?

Frankly, because the reasoning behind it is stupid and he has more important things to do than address a conspiracy theory about whether or not he was in a classroom in 1983.

 

[JoeBowen7]

I don’t see it as a prejudice. I see it as following the teaching of the church. Scripture states very clearly that we are to have nothing to do with anything that worships false gods and false prophets. Not to even inquire of it. We are not to worship false gods or give our approval to one that does. This is not my opinion, this is the Word of God. Go against Him at your own peril.

I would not hold Romney’s religion against him in the presidential election. Many Mormons are good decent people, of good character and morals. In the presidential election, you are voting for someone to lead the country, not to be head of the Catholic Church. In that sense then, I would disagree with you.
However, i would not disagree with someone who is looking for a third party to bring about the real change that America needs. The Republicans and the Democrats have had their chance, and the result is that America is in a terrible economic depression, millions of unborn are being killed, and there appears to be no end to useless foreign interventions.

 

[DeSanto]

It hasn’t been the norm for presidential candidates to release their college transcripts but GWB’s were leaked to the press. The interest there was that he nearly failed high school and bombed out of a community college so some people wanted to know how he managed to get into Yale and what his GPA was. I believe Kerry’s transcripts were also leaked. The demand for Obama to release his Columbia transcripts is the new face of the birther movement; started by some random guy who claims he never saw Obama on the Columbia campus.

It is the norm to release your tax returns. He should have expected that and especially after all the scrutiny given to Obama over every aspect of his past, it should not be uncalled for to expect to see Romney’s returns. Let’s not forget Romney’s father setting the precedence for it in the first place.

 

[DeSanto]

I would not hold Romney’s religion against him in the presidential election. Many Mormons are good decent people, of good character and morals. In the presidential election, you are voting for someone to lead the country, not to be head of the Catholic Church. In that sense then, I would disagree with you.
However, i would not disagree with someone who is looking for a third party to bring about the real change that America needs. The Republicans and the Democrats have had their chance, and the result is that America is in a terrible economic depression, millions of unborn are being killed, and there appears to be no end to useless foreign interventions.

I cannot consciously vote for one who follows after false gods. period

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

It is the norm to release your tax returns. He should have expected that and especially after all the scrutiny given to Obama over every aspect of his past, it should not be uncalled for to expect to see Romney’s returns. Let’s not forget Romney’s father setting the precedence for it in the first place.

I don’t disagree that Romney should release his tax returns and, frankly, his 13% comment doesn’t help. People generally don’t sympathize, in terms of financial records, with a guy who pays half the rate they do in taxes yet earns exponentially more money. In fact, I’d say it has the opposite effect.

 

[DeSanto]

I would not hold Romney’s religion against him in the presidential election. Many Mormons are good decent people, of good character and morals. In the presidential election, you are voting for someone to lead the country, not to be head of the Catholic Church. In that sense then, I would disagree with you.

You are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with God. These are not my words but The Word. Might I suggest a couple scriptures, that btw, could apply to either candidate.

Deut 12:30-31, Deut 13:1-18, Matthew 6:21, Romans 1, Romans12:1-2 and 2 Kings 17:33

just to name a few…

not to say I wouldn’t consider a third party choice. Might be something to look into. I have not considered that, thank you.

 

[LisaA]

I don’t see it as a prejudice. I see it as following the teaching of the church. Scripture states very clearly that we are to have nothing to do with anything that worships false gods and false prophets. Not to even inquire of it. We are not to worship false gods or give our approval to one that does. This is not my opinion, this is the Word of God. Go against Him at your own peril. Romney can do what he wants, I don’t have to support it.

How funny. Do you know the faith of every school teacher you or your children had? If they were not practicing Catholics I am surprised you agreed to listen to their lessons. Do you know the faith of every candiate you voted for? I bet you don’t. I think if you look in the Bible you will not find any support to shun those of a different faith in matters that are not related to faith. Voting for a candidate is not “following a false prophet.” Neither candidate is vying to be your Parish Priest.

You are incredibly prejudiced against Mormons and I suspect you have little knowledge of them and of their faith. I lived in Salt Lake City for three years and two of my aunts converted to Mormonism so I have a lot of up close and personal encounters with them. I thnk their beliefs with regard to Scripture,the Trinity (or lack thereof) are just plain nutty. OTOH one is as one does. I would venture to say there is not a more Christian life than lived by Mormons with respect to their love of neighbor, devotion to family, responsibility, kindness, and work ethic. I LOVE Mormons. Don’t believe the Gold Plates story and think Brigham Young was a randy old goat. But I’d put a Mormon in any place of responsbility without a second thought.

Wow I rarely see anyone admit to their biases in this way. Lucky for you that you don’t have the same opinion of Muslims. THat wouldn’t be safe.

Lisa

 

[estesbob]

I don’t disagree that Romney should release his tax returns and, frankly, his 13% comment doesn’t help. People generally don’t sympathize, in terms of financial records, with a guy who pays half the rate they do in taxes yet earns exponentially more money. In fact, I’d say it has the opposite effect.

THE 13% was effective rate. You are trying to compare effective rate with marginal rate. Another reason, IMO, that he shoukdnt release avny more returns

 

[JoeBowen7]

You are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with God. These are not my words but The Word. Might I suggest a couple scriptures, that btw, could apply to either candidate.

Deut 12:30-31, Deut 13:1-18, Matthew 6:21, Romans 1, Romans12:1-2 and 2 Kings 17:33

just to name a few…

not to say I wouldn’t consider a third party choice. Might be something to look into. I have not considered that, thank you.

Deut 12:31 “[31] Thou shalt not do in like manner to the Lord thy God. For they have done to their gods all the abominations which the Lord abhorreth, offering their sons and daughters, and burning them with fire.”
Where have Mormons offered their sons and daughters, burning them with fire? Perhaps you are confusing this with the Catholic Inquisition, where people were burned at the stake. I haven’t heard anywhere that Mormons are burning their sons and daughters and offering them to their gods?
No. I can understand someone voting for a third party as I said above, but I base that on the proposition that nothing much will change, whether a Democrat or a Republican gets elected.

 

[JoeBowen7]

Not on his watch, and has been mentioned several times, abortion has to be a part of the plan by the state constitution.

As I have read parts of the Massachusetts State Constitution it appears to be rather strictly worded against abortion on demand, however, i am not sure about the interpretation. Could you please point out where exactly in the Massachusetts state constitution it says that abortion on demand has to be part of Romney care?

 

[ProVobis]

No. I can understand someone voting for a third party as I said above, but I base that on the proposition that nothing much will change, whether a Democrat or a Republican gets elected.

Actually the total number of abortions per year dropped off when Clinton took office, then has stabilized since 1995. There’s nothing to indicate this number will change either way.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

 

[ishii]

Like I asked, isn’t it is better not to shake hands with Satan and compromise with intrinsic evil. Why not oppose intrinsic evil 100% and vote for Virgil Goode?

Hello JoeBowen -

Why is it that you don’t answer my question? Its a simple one: who do you want choosing the next two to three supreme court justices - Romney/Ryan or Obama/Biden? Please answer!

Still, I don;t see where people are so opposed to third party candidates. The Democrats and Republicans have had a monopoly on American politics for too long and it is time to get some new ideas going. Bush ran up huge deficits and it seems like these two parties are getting America involved in too many wars. I like Ron Paul’s ideas on foreign policy.

You raise some valid criticisms of the GOP over the past few years. - too much spending, perhaps an overly idealistic foreign policy (as opposed to realistic). As for “getting new ideas going” I think that the ideas of fiscal discipline and entitlement reform being championed by Paul Ryan and embraced by Romney is a very good sign, don’t you? Your lesser of two evils argument aside, would you not agree that Virgil Goode has absolutely no chance of winning, and that he would take away some votes from Romney. In a close election, that could be a big factor. Do you want to help Obama get re-elected? Who do you think will be more likely to establish some fiscal discipline in our country, Romney/Ryan or Obama/Biden?

Ishii

 

[ishii]

I don’t see it as a prejudice. I see it as following the teaching of the church. Scripture states very clearly that we are to have nothing to do with anything that worships false gods and false prophets. Not to even inquire of it. We are not to worship false gods or give our approval to one that does. This is not my opinion, this is the Word of God. Go against Him at your own peril. Romney can do what he wants, I don’t have to support it.

Desanto, which bishop has come out and declared that its wrong for Catholics to vote for a Mormon for president? Who in a position of authority in the catholic church has said that we must not vote for a candidate because they are Mormon?

Ishii

 

[DeSanto]

Desanto, which bishop has come out and declared that its wrong for Catholics to vote for a Mormon for president? Who in a position of authority in the catholic church has said that we must not vote for a candidate because they are Mormon?

Ishii

. Is the Word of God not enough? Please go back and review the scriptures. We have been warned of this very situation. I will work on gathering scripture to share with you all, out of sincere concern…not prejudice.