Paul Ryan Discussion

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ProVobis said:
But that’s just it. I’m not saying the RR ticket is “against Catholic social teaching” per se but there aren’t too many specifics in Ryan’s budget. For example, he wants to lower tax rates, okay, but he leaves off the deductions he would eliminate. The Church may fear a limit of how much charitable contribution can be deducted. As well as elimination of certain credits that would help women bear children or encourage adoptions. Or increases (surprise, surprise!) to military spending to the tune of $2 trillion dollars. I think these are all legitimate concerns. Just saying.
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Sure, legitimate concerns but given Ryan’s background, I suspect these cuts would not be a priority. If you look at Ryan’s overall proposals, he focuses on means testing for example when working on issues like SS and Medicare. Currently the home mortgage deduction IS means tested in effect with limits for certain loans ($1MM and up I think). Perhaps the Ryan budget would further ratchet that number down. Or how about limiting the deduction for a “second home” which is another tax benefit used more by upper income earners. Given that a “second home” can be a yacht, I suspect this would not create the kind of blowback or havoc the thought of reducing home mortgage deductions or charitable deductions which are used by the lower and middle classes as well. IOW why posit something that is truly unlikely to disparage the ticket?

IOW speculating about what MIGHT happen in a FUTURE budget isn’t worth dismissing a ticket that has many strong points. Just saying…😃

Lisa
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Or it might be a vote for Romney, looking at it from the Dem POV…
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Fair point.
Why do the chances of winning have anything to do with it? Some decades ago, Judy Brown ran on a Pro-Life ticket. She hadn’t a snowflake’s chance in Hell of winning, but she ran. Should she have stayed out of the race?
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Exactly. Chances of winning have nothing to do with voting correctly from the moral point of view.

And exactly what does it mean “no chance of winning”? I voted for Keyes when he ran for the U.S. Senate against Obama when polls showed him having no more than 10-15% support. As it turned out he got 30% of the vote; he lost but at least the right message was sent. People shouldn’t see their candidate as losing a bad thing in many cases. There are future elections down the road.
 
LisaA said:
Look, if you actually had some EVIDENCE instead of speculation, innuendo, rumors and gossip it might be worth considering. So far that’s all you’ve offered. Have you ever heard the phrase “you cannot prove a negative.” You continue to ask us to prove negatives…IOW if Romney doesn’t prove XY or Z, then we must conclude otherwise.

No, I’d actually like to see some evidence that Mr Romney has violated the law, is hiding from the IRS, or that he conducts his affairs in an unethical manner.

Do you have any?

I believe the comment regarding Obama’s birthplace was tongue in cheek. Aside from that I heard an amusing turn of phrase…“We dont’ care where he was born, we care where he lives now!” That’s my concern for sure!

Lisa
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man, how many times? I did give evidence as far as to how off shore banking skirts around tax laws, not so blind trust, Swiss tax evasion law suits, One example that was highly suspicious to me was The 2009 swiss amnesty bla bla bla. I cant help it if you dont want to acknowledge it. No one wants to here it. Oh, and I thought it was common knowledge Romney refuses to disclose his returns past 2010. The “one” he has disclosed is not transparent. I didn’t know that was refuted but if you need evidence I’ll be glad to show you several links. And, How many times must I say, Because I question Romney is not a defense of Obama?
 
LisaA said:
Look, if you actually had some EVIDENCE instead of speculation, innuendo, rumors and gossip it might be worth considering. So far that’s all you’ve offered. Have you ever heard the phrase “you cannot prove a negative.” You continue to ask us to prove negatives…IOW if Romney doesn’t prove XY or Z, then we must conclude otherwise.

No, I’d actually like to see some evidence that Mr Romney has violated the law, is hiding from the IRS, or that he conducts his affairs in an unethical manner.

Do you have any?
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DeSanto has no evidence, yet, that would stand up in a court of law that would convict Romney of tax evasion. If DeSanto has some, I think the IRS, FBI and attorney general would like to speak to her.
LisaA said:
I believe the comment regarding Obama’s birthplace was tongue in cheek. Aside from that I heard an amusing turn of phrase…“We dont’ care where he was born, we care where he lives now!” That’s my concern for sure!

Lisa
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It was tongue and cheek. There is a parallel that apparently wen over DeSanto’s head - This is the same silliness we got from the “Birthers.” There’s no evidence that has stood up in court that has conclusively proved Obama has been born outside of the US.
 
DeSanto said:
man, how many times? I did give evidence as far as to how off shore banking skirts around tax laws, not so blind trust, Swiss tax evasion law suits, One example that was highly suspicious to me was The 2009 swiss amnesty bla bla bla. I cant help it if you dont want to acknowledge it. No one wants to here it. Oh, and I thought it was common knowledge Romney refuses to disclose his returns past 2010. The “one” he has disclosed is not transparent. I didn’t know that was refuted but if you need evidence I’ll be glad to show you several links. And, How many times must I say, Because I question Romney is not a defense of Obama?
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How many times have we told you that the money deposited in a Swiss bank account is post-tax and he’s reporting and paying taxes on the interest. You’re assuming guilt by association.

Also, I don’t think there is a law requiring that canidates release documents in the first place. So it renders all your points moot.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
DeSanto has no evidence, yet, that would stand up in a court of law that would convict Romney of tax evasion. If DeSanto has some, I think the IRS, FBI and attorney general would like to speak to her.

It was tongue and cheek. There is a parallel that apparently wen over DeSanto’s head - This is the same silliness we got from the “Birthers.” There’s no evidence that has stood up in court that has conclusively proved Obama has been born outside of the US.
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Weren’t some of those birthers scheduled to speak at the RNC? Maybe it’s good fortune for Romney that Monday has been canceled due to the hurricane. Three days are plenty for any political convention: most of us want to hear Ryan and Romney, that’s all. We don’t need to hear Trump and echoes of a cultural war, least of all the Republicans themselves.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
Unless you or the Federal Government has proof beyond a reasonable doubt, please stop engaging in the sin of detraction/gossip/lying.

THATS IT! You are being irrational. I believe you have totally lost your cool. You call me a sinner for having questions. Tell me where I have lied! You call me a liar, ignorant, a bigot, you question my faith and take comments out of context. You, my friend, are out of line.

Obama’s past has been called into question. How did he get into Pakistan? Why did he recieve scholarships reserved for forgein students? Why do many of Obama’s records remain sealed? How come people hold Mormonism against Romney but don’t hold Rev. Wright against Obama?

Quite clearly, people have a double standard.
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Quite clearly you are confused. Questioning Romeny is not a defense of obama!! please, say that to yourself several times.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
How many times have we told you that the money deposited in a Swiss bank account is post-tax and he’s reporting and paying taxes on the interest. You’re assuming guilt by association.

Also, I don’t think there is a law requiring that canidates release documents in the first place. So it renders all your points moot.
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I do assume he doesn’t show his 2009 returns for the very reasons I have explained. Failure to disclose all your accounts was the very reason for the amnesty in 2009 and it is my opinion that is why he doesn’t want to show his returns. It is my opinion to which I was informed I am entitled to. It is the precedence to disclose your returns not a law. It does raise suspicion obviously, if you don’t. Again, my opinion!!!
 
meltzerboy said:
Weren’t some of those birthers scheduled to speak at the RNC? Maybe it’s good fortune for Romney that Monday has been canceled due to the hurricane. Three days are plenty for any political convention: most of us want to hear Ryan and Romney, that’s all. We don’t need to hear Trump and echoes of a cultural war, least of all the Republicans themselves.
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It would be good to hear the voice of Ron Paul, though.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
DeSanto;9700782:
I did give evidence as far as to how off shore banking skirts around tax laws
You do realize everyone reduces their tax burdens don’t you?
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I cannot help it if you do not want to acknowledge the evidence I provided. Not ever accusing Romeny of anything illegal so please quit accusing me of that. There are illegal dealings that occur with off shore banking which I tried to point out only to have my comments taken as an accusation towards Romney. Not my fault. I dont think questioning these things is the same as accusing him.
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DeSanto said:
man, how many times? I did give evidence as far as to how off shore banking skirts around tax laws, not so blind trust, Swiss tax evasion law suits, One example that was highly suspicious to me was The 2009 swiss amnesty bla bla bla. I cant help it if you dont want to acknowledge it. No one wants to here it. Oh, and I thought it was common knowledge Romney refuses to disclose his returns past 2010. The “one” he has disclosed is not transparent. I didn’t know that was refuted but if you need evidence I’ll be glad to show you several links. And, How many times must I say, Because I question Romney is not a defense of Obama?
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First ComputerGeek’s points were well taken. Thank you for weighing in.

DeSanto you may have provided links that theorize just maybe, possibly, coulda shoulda woulda be possible to avoid taxes with offshore accounts. But you have not shown the slightest bit of evidence that Mr Romney actually ENGAGED in anything illegal, unethical or un-American. Given the viciousness of both campaigns, had some sort of illegal behavior occurred, you can be sure someone would have made sure it was broadcast from coast to coast. I just don’t think you are privy to information that Obama’s campaign has not yet discovered.

I understand you are not defending Obama with your anti-Romney comments. You are obviously very much opposed to Mr Romney becoming President and perhaps trying to convince others as well. At any rate, speculation, rumor and innuendo are not very compelling arguments.

As a Catholic I assume you are not voting for Obama so that’s not even at issue.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
First ComputerGeek’s points were well taken. Thank you for weighing in.

DeSanto you may have provided links that theorize just maybe, possibly, coulda shoulda woulda be possible to avoid taxes with offshore accounts. But you have not shown the slightest bit of evidence that Mr Romney actually ENGAGED in anything illegal, unethical or un-American. Given the viciousness of both campaigns, had some sort of illegal behavior occurred, you can be sure someone would have made sure it was broadcast from coast to coast. I just don’t think you are privy to information that Obama’s campaign has not yet discovered.

I understand you are not defending Obama with your anti-Romney comments. You are obviously very much opposed to Mr Romney becoming President and perhaps trying to convince others as well. At any rate, speculation, rumor and innuendo are not very compelling arguments.

As a Catholic I assume you are not voting for Obama so that’s not even at issue.

Lisa
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The scary part Lisa, is that we have people who buy the lies, speculation and innuendo actually voting in an election. 😉
 
DeSanto said:
man, how many times? I did give evidence as far as to how off shore banking skirts around tax laws, not so blind trust, Swiss tax evasion law suits, One example that was highly suspicious to me was The 2009 swiss amnesty bla bla bla. I cant help it if you dont want to acknowledge it. No one wants to here it. Oh, and I thought it was common knowledge Romney refuses to disclose his returns past 2010. The “one” he has disclosed is not transparent. I didn’t know that was refuted but if you need evidence I’ll be glad to show you several links. And, How many times must I say, Because I question Romney is not a defense of Obama?
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Romney has given one year of his tax returns and has said he will give us 2011 as soon as it is ready. Not many candidates that I can remember have given more than that. If so, I apologize for the misstatement. I am not interested in his returns as I don’t worry about how much money he has and I don’t ASSUME that he has done anything wrong. I am much more interested in knowing how this country can continue to spend money it does not have and the Obamacare mess than Romney’s taxes. I’ll leave that to the IRS.
 
DeSanto said:
I do assume he doesn’t show his 2009 returns for the very reasons I have explained. Failure to disclose all your accounts was the very reason for the amnesty in 2009 and it is my opinion that is why he doesn’t want to show his returns. It is my opinion to which I was informed I am entitled to. It is the precedence to disclose your returns not a law. It does raise suspicion obviously, if you don’t. Again, my opinion!!!
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Look, if what he is doing is illegal, the IRS would be after him. He has disclosed what needs to be disclosed to the IRS.

Why do you insist that you know more than the IRS when you have not seen what they have seen?

You are engaging in slander.
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

Please charitably discuss the issues, not other members.

Please stay on the topic of this thread which is Paul Ryan’s candidacy for VP of the United States.
 
Look this will be my last statement re: Romney’s returns. I am not insinuating he has done anything illegal. The 2009 Swiss amnesty bill is what I am referring to. It was a type of bailout for ones caught in the crash. I merely stated this information for anyone interested in learning more about it. I cannot help if others want to read more into it than that. There was also the issue with blind trust that really wouldn’t be an issue if Romney himself had not made the statements he had made regarding blind trust. If he were to have taken advantage of the amnesty, in no way would that be illegal but, sure would not paint him in a good light as with the facts of his blind trust accounts. I simply stated that the fact he doesn’t disclose his returns makes him suspicious to me. If anyone reads more into it there is nothing more I can do. That will be all I have to say on that subject.
 
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