Paul Ryan!!

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LisaA said:
There is nothing noble, sacred or patriotic about paying more taxes than you owe. There is nothing noble, sacred or patriotic about setting up your finances not to maximize tax benefits. As Justice Learned Hand said, the rich and the poor do it. To do otherwise would just be stupid. Romney is not stupid and he’s rich because he’s smart enough to see opportunities in business and take advantage of them.
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If I could get away with paying zero in taxes I certainly would, and if I could work a little bit and get more back than I paid in, I would do that as well. In fact, at some point in my life I may just quit working for pay altogether, because then I could draw a large amount out of my retirement accounts and pay zero or very little in taxes. I agree that nobody should criticize anyone for doing these things. On the other hand, we can criticize the tax system for encouraging bad behavior. We have overinvested in housing because of the tax breaks for housing and that has costs to our economy.

nytimes.com/2011/11/09/your-money/despite-critics-mortgage-interest-deduction-persists.html?pagewanted=all

We also have a bias towards business that use a lot of debt, and that has made our economy much more slow to recover from this latest debacle. Finally, nobody can defend the idea that the government knows how to pick winners and losers. And of course, if you are in a favored group, you get a better tax deal than if you are not in a favored group. Think of seniors and their larger standard deduction.
 
mary_bobo said:
Won’t matter. He is an evil Republican who only favors the rich. As an aside, it was not Romney that voted for or proposed the tax laws we now have. If one is opposed to the laws, complain at the source–the Congresses of years past.
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Of course, there is one man who could have single handedly raised tax rates, and that is Obama. They were set to expire and he could have vetoed any legislation extending them.
 
meltzerboy said:
Good for Paul Ryan! Now, what about Mitt Romney, who says he paid no less than 13%? Abyssinia, can you contact Mitt and get a hold of HIS tax returns for the past few years?
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This is a serious question. Why should any of us care about Mitt Romneys tax returns?
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I think that tax returns can reveal something about the character of the person running for office. For example, I think the fact that Joe Biden gives so little to charitable contributions reveals something about his character. Do voters not have a right to know these things?

usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-12-biden-financial_N.htm
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Having prepared thousands and thousands of tax returns for the last 32 years I can assure you the last thing you find out about from tax returns is someones “character” What you find is everyone, rich, poor. liberal, conservative is after one and only one thing-to pay as little in taxes as they can.

And no voters dont have a “right” to know these things. Tax returns, by law, are confidential. If someone wants to release these that fine but we have no “right” to see them.
 
estesbob said:
Having prepared thousands and thousands of tax returns for the last 32 years I can assure you the last thing you find out about from tax returns is someones “character” What you find is everyone, rich, poor. liberal, conservative is after one and only one thing-to pay as little in taxes as they can.

And no voters dont have a “right” to know these things. Tax returns, by law, are confidential. If someone wants to release these that fine but we have no “right” to see them.
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Voters have the same right to demand to see tax returns as bankers do. A banker can choose to withhold granting a loan if a borrower does not produce a tax return and similar a voter can withhold a vote if a tax return is not delivered.

For example, in my case, it is not clear that I am going to vote for Romney. I will vote for a pro-life candidate, so there is no question that I will be in line with Church teaching, but one thing is clear, Romney is a bit of weasel, and it is not clear that he can be trusted.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Voters have the same right to demand to see tax returns as bankers do. A banker can choose to withhold granting a loan if a borrower does not produce a tax return and similar a voter can withhold a vote if a tax return is not delivered.
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Bob said voters don’t have a right to “know.” They can “demand” anything they want.

For example, voters have a right to demand that Obama release his school transcripts. They don’t have a right to “know.” So far, Obama has refused to release them. I’m guessing Obama was a lousy student, because I can’t think of any other reason to keep your school records sealed…especially when you trumpet your constitutional expertise.
 
rlg94086 said:
Bob said voters don’t have a right to “know.” They can “demand” anything they want.

For example, voters have a right to demand that Obama release his school transcripts. They don’t have a right to “know.” So far, Obama has refused to release them. I’m guessing Obama was a lousy student, because I can’t think of any other reason to keep your school records sealed…especially when you trumpet your constitutional expertise.
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Actually the consensus is got admitted to college as a “foreign” student. Of course he is not a foreigner but it would be another example if how people game the preference systems (ala Elizabeth Warren) to gain an advantage.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Voters have the same right to demand to see tax returns as bankers do. A banker can choose to withhold granting a loan if a borrower does not produce a tax return and similar a voter can withhold a vote if a tax return is not delivered.

For example, in my case, it is not clear that I am going to vote for Romney. I will vote for a pro-life candidate, so there is no question that I will be in line with Church teaching, but one thing is clear, Romney is a bit of weasel, and it is not clear that he can be trusted.
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Would you post your tax returns here so we can look at them? I would like to know more about your character. For instance did you take any itemized deductions? That would be grossly unfair to renters and the poor who dont have enough dedication to itemize. How about a Hope credit for you or your kids? Doesn’t that discriminate against those who dont go to college? And of course there is the Child care credit-encouraging women to abandon their children in search of the almighty dollar. i know you wouldn’t take that!
 
rlg94086 said:
Bob said voters don’t have a right to “know.” They can “demand” anything they want.
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Obviously, if voters had a right to “know” someone would have sued and there would be no controversy. The real question is, is it reasonable to ask politicians to release their tax returns? It has been customary, but there is no agreed upon standard for what is reasonable to release. What Romney has released is on the low end of what candidates typically release. Obviously, there is no way to compel Romney to release more than to keep hounding him over it, and while some may find it distasteful, this is no better or worse than hounding Obama over birth certificates or grades or anything else.
 
estesbob said:
Actually the consensus is got admitted to college as a “foreign” student. Of course he is not a foreigner but it would be another example if how people game the preference systems (ala Elizabeth Warren) to gain an advantage.
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Well, it would be nice to know the truth, but Obama doesn’t seem to be into “transparency,” and his supporters don’t seem to care about anything he does or has done.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Obviously, if voters had a right to “know” someone would have sued and there would be no controversy. The real question is, is it reasonable to ask politicians to release their tax returns? It has been customary, but there is no agreed upon standard for what is reasonable to release. What Romney has released is on the low end of what candidates typically release. Obviously, there is no way to compel Romney to release more than to keep hounding him over it, and while some may find it distasteful, this is no better or worse than hounding Obama over birth certificates or grades or anything else.
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Exactly my point. Thank you for reinforcing it.
 
estesbob said:
Would you post your tax returns here so we can look at them? I would like to know more about your character.
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No, for the simple reason is you have nothing to offer me in return for posting them. If you are willing to offer something of value, then we can talk. The difference is Romney wants something from the voters and they have the right to ask for whatever they want to make a decision.
For instance did you take any itemized deductions? That would be grossly unfair to renters and the poor who dont have enough dedication to itemize.
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I think the fairness and economic effects of our tax code are perfectly reasonable to discuss. For example, because I fall into an arbitrary classification, I can put away twice as much in my retirement accounts as most people. Is that fair? I would argue no, do I take advantage of it? The answer is absolutely.
How about a Hope credit for you or your kids? Doesn’t that discriminate against those who dont go to college? And of course there is the Child care credit-encouraging women to abandon their children in search of the almighty dollar. i know you wouldn’t take that!
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Personally, I liked the tax system better after Reagan’s tax reform in 86. The tax base was broadened and tax rates were lowered. In the past twenty five years we have done nothing but alter to benefit special interest groups, and that is a bad thing.
 
estesbob said:
Having prepared thousands and thousands of tax returns for the last 32 years I can assure you the last thing you find out about from tax returns is someones “character” What you find is everyone, rich, poor. liberal, conservative is after one and only one thing-to pay as little in taxes as they can.

And no voters dont have a “right” to know these things. Tax returns, by law, are confidential. If someone wants to release these that fine but we have no “right” to see them.
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Which is why I wonder Harry Reid gets away with “knowing” the contents of Mitt Romney’s tax returns. :confused:
 
stinkcat_14 said:
No, for the simple reason is you have nothing to offer me in return for posting them. If you are willing to offer something of value, then we can talk. The difference is Romney wants something from the voters and they have the right to ask for whatever they want to make a decision.

I think the fairness and economic effects of our tax code are perfectly reasonable to discuss. For example, because I fall into an arbitrary classification, I can put away twice as much in my retirement accounts as most people. Is that fair? I would argue no, do I take advantage of it? The answer is absolutely.

Personally, I liked the tax system better after Reagan’s tax reform in** 86**. The tax base was broadened and tax rates were lowered. In the past twenty five years we have done nothing but alter to benefit special interest groups, and that is a bad thing.
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  1. If you came to me I could help you put away even more of your earnings in a retirement account!🙂
 
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