Paul Ryan!!

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LisaA said:
Yes indeed…it’s amazing the OBAMA JUSTICE DEPARTMENT can’t seem to find a single person to charge in the financial crisis of 08.

Lisa
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I find that amazing too. To be fair, there wasn’t much demand for accountability from either side of the aisle. Even the puny legislative attempts to avoid a repeat, was not met with bipartisan support. Obama talked a good game; he even took some flak for “attacking Wall Street”, but in the end, nobody paid the piper. Moral of the story, if you’re going to be financially responsible, do it en masse and on a grand scale…that will determine whether you’ll end up getting bailed out of jail or bailed out of the consequences.
 
DeSanto said:
I get what you’re saying. and I’m sorry the 2 trillion figure is what it has already cost in the past 10 years.

thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/07/237560/10-years-bush-tax-cuts/?mobile=wp

That said, I admit I am not a tax lawyer and this stuff really is tough to wrap you’re head around. I am though just concerned about what’s fair and what’s right. There are going to be some big changes and have been some big changes and I don’t want to see the little guy get left in the cold like they did in 2009 and all the big wigs and wall street dudes walk away unscathed…AGAIN!!!
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Well, I don’t agree with think progress, but that’s a start.

But to claim that we don’t have spending problem when revenue rates have been far been outpaced by spending is short sided.

And this is something BOTH parties have been guilty of.
 
seekerz said:
I find that amazing too. To be fair, there wasn’t much demand for accountability from either side of the aisle. Even the puny legislative attempts to avoid a repeat, was not met with bipartisan support. Obama talked a good game; he even took some flak for “attacking Wall Street”, but in the end, nobody paid the piper. Moral of the story, if you’re going to be financially responsible, do it en masse and on a grand scale…that will determine whether you’ll end up getting bailed out of jail or bailed out of the consequences.
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I have often said that the real scandal was not what was done that was illegal-its what was done that was legal!
 
DeSanto said:
I totally agree with you Lisa! Can you believe it. Unfortunately, I don’t think this will be the focus of a Romney administration either. I see Romney as one of them. I’ll just be glad when this is all over. I know Obama’s president so he gets to own every little tiny winy itsy bitsy thing that is wrong with this country. But I’m just so tired of looking for one republican that can honestly say it’s not all his fault. Now that’s someone I’d vote for. sadly, no one has fit that bill yet.
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Well I hope Romney will not have to contend with another massive financial fraud on his watch. We can hope we have learned from this experience. I think SamH poiinted out that the Bush era Enron and Tyco CEOs went to jail for what were far less nationally destructive actions. There truly seems to be a difference in the emphasis of each administration’s Justice Department. The Obama Justice Department seems more concerned with foreign wood being imported than with white collar crime. It infuriates and shocks me that NOT one person has been punished for what happened to our financial system although there have been many books written and those involved are not state secrets.

As to Obama’s blame game, sorry but I can’t see where you think he’s being blamed for “every tiny winy itsy bitsy thing” when in reality Obama has deflected blame for “ever tiny winy bitsy thing” to Bush. It’s almost comical watching him find someone else to take responsibility for the state of the economy. Also most Repbulicans (at least the ones who hope to be re-elected) have done major mea culupas over the past and how the “lost their way” with overspending and lack of attention to the deficit. Paul Ryan has been one who has repeatedly said the past action was a terrible mistake that will impact our children and their children. He DOES take responsibillity. Wish Obama would man up and do the same.

Lisa
 
scipio337 said:
Well, I don’t agree with think progress, but that’s a start.

But to claim that we don’t have spending problem when revenue rates have been far been outpaced by spending is short sided.

And this is something BOTH parties have been guilty of.
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not arguing that
 
LisaA said:
Well I hope Romney will not have to contend with another massive financial fraud on his watch. We can hope we have learned from this experience.

that’s seems nieve don’t you think. from what I understand not much has changed. Again repeat the same behaviors and expecting different results.

I think SamH poiinted out that the Bush era Enron and Tyco CEOs went to jail for what were far less nationally destructive actions. There truly seems to be a difference in the emphasis of each administration’s Justice Department. The Obama Justice Department seems more concerned with foreign wood being imported than with white collar crime. It infuriates and shocks me that NOT one person has been punished for what happened to our financial system although there have been many books written and those involved are not state secrets.

Well it would seem that would be the purpose for more regulations but that apparently is a bad bad word, so there goes that idea. Hope is another one of those word to watch out for.]

As to Obama’s blame game, sorry but I can’t see where you think he’s being blamed for “every tiny winy itsy bitsy thing” when in reality Obama has deflected blame for “ever tiny winy bitsy thing” to Bush. It’s almost comical watching him find someone else to take responsibility for the state of the economy. Also most Repbulicans (at least the ones who hope to be re-elected) have done major mea culupas over the past and how the “lost their way” with overspending and lack of attention to the deficit. Paul Ryan has been one who has repeatedly said the past action was a terrible mistake that will impact our children and their children. He DOES take responsibillity. Wish Obama would man up and do the same.

Lisa

Hindsight 20-20…any one republican taken any responsibility for the deadlock in congress…the hostage crisis over the debt limit is one example. They’re just going a little too far with this stuff. you might not like who’s in office but to be willing to let the country go down because of it is deplorable and unpatriotic.
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stinkcat_14 said:
Wage earners also build their wealth with after tax dollars, with the exception of 401k type accounts, which small business people have access to as well. The one advantage that small businesses do have is that sometimes the small business owner has the opportunity to transform labor income into a capital gain and the capital gain is taxed at a lower rate. For example, I have a client who has taken a dilapidated property and doubled its value by sweat equity. When he sells it in a few years, his sweat equity will be taxed at capital gains rates, rather than ordinary income.
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True, but most small business people and farmers don’t build 401Ks precisely because they have to buy their wealth (the land, etc) with after-tax dollars. (Yes, I know, equipment is different and buildings can be depreciated)

For a lot of ranchers (not too many farmers here) in my part of the country, the land gain is more an estate tax issue than it is a capital gain issue. Same with a lot of small businesses.

Glad you mentioned the guy who bought the “fixer upper” and gained wealth by sweat equity. I maintain that a lot more people could do that kind of thing than actually do, and not be so inclined to complain about “the wealthy”. It should be their goal to join “the wealthy”, if even on a modest scale. I know a lot of people who have gained modest wealth by just such measures. My favorites, perhaps, are the young guys who work in the feed mills and keep the sweepings, then haunt the country stockyards at night. They’re the market for the mixed-breed calves, which they raise on rented land. Eventually, they manage to buy a few acres, then a few more, and so on.

Perhaps my favorite feed store person is a young lady who did that until she could buy a sizeable tractor and round baler. She gained quite a figure hefting feed sacks and salt blocks around, in addition to her other equipment. She now attends a community college and does custom baling on her own time in addition to raising calves. She’ll be a wealthy lady someday and, contrary to Obama’s judgment of her, she will have done it herself.
 
LisaA said:
As to Obama’s blame game, sorry but I can’t see where you think he’s being blamed for “every tiny winy itsy bitsy thing” when in reality Obama has deflected blame for “ever tiny winy bitsy thing” to Bush. It’s almost comical watching him find someone else to take responsibility for the state of the economy. Also most Repbulicans (at least the ones who hope to be re-elected) have done major mea culupas over the past and how the “lost their way” with overspending and lack of attention to the deficit. Paul Ryan has been one who has repeatedly said the past action was a terrible mistake that will impact our children and their children. He DOES take responsibillity. Wish Obama would man up and do the same.

Lisa
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But you know, you really can’t announce that you’re going to “fundamentally transform” this country without taking responsibility for fundamentally transforming it.
 
Ridgerunner said:
True, but most small business people and farmers don’t build 401Ks precisely because they have to buy their wealth (the land, etc) with after-tax dollars. (Yes, I know, equipment is different and buildings can be depreciated)

For a lot of ranchers (not too many farmers here) in my part of the country, the land gain is more an estate tax issue than it is a capital gain issue. Same with a lot of small businesses.
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Part of the problem is that our tax system is heavily biased towards those who borrow money. The person who finances his business through retained earnings really take it on the chin.
Glad you mentioned the guy who bought the “fixer upper” and gained wealth by sweat equity. I maintain that a lot more people could do that kind of thing than actually do, and not be so inclined to complain about “the wealthy”. It should be their goal to join “the wealthy”, if even on a modest scale. I know a lot of people who have gained modest wealth by just such measures. My favorites, perhaps, are the young guys who work in the feed mills and keep the sweepings, then haunt the country stockyards at night. They’re the market for the mixed-breed calves, which they raise on rented land. Eventually, they manage to buy a few acres, then a few more, and so on.
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Perhaps my favorite feed store person is a young lady who did that until she could buy a sizeable tractor and round baler. She gained quite a figure hefting feed sacks and salt blocks around, in addition to her other equipment. She now attends a community college and does custom baling on her own time in addition to raising calves. She’ll be a wealthy lady someday and, contrary to Obama’s judgment of her, she will have done it herself.
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What young people (and this probably goes back to cain and abel) often don’t realize is that small investments early in your career can have a major impact on your long run outcome.
 
DeSanto said:
Hindsight 20-20…any one republican taken any responsibility for the deadlock in congress…the hostage crisis over the debt limit is one example. They’re just going a little too far with this stuff. you might not like who’s in office but to be willing to let the country go down because of it is deplorable and unpatriotic.
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Obama voted AGAINST raising the debt limit during his precious few days in the Senate. I suppose it doesn’t impress you that Republicans may have opposed the increase on principle? $5T in new debt in just 3 1/2 years is to be defended, if you’re a reflexive leftist, I reckon! The next generation may well remember your ilk as reckless, selfish and irresponsible, as your support for Obama is helping to destroy THEIR economic system and future. 😦 Rob
 
DeSanto said:
So take from the poor and give to the rich is a better solution. Repeating the same behavior and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. It seems to me it the rich that have become dependent on these tax cuts…that were supposed to be TEMPORARY!!! Give it up…trickle down does not work, especially when everyone is up in arms over spending! This alone destroys any other republican argument when lecturing on the spending problem.
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Hello DeSanto. No, I don’t want to take from the poor and give to the rich. Who has suggested that? If you want an example of the definition of insanity then look at the results of liberal welfare/redistribution policies - they have actually given us more poor people, increased dependency, etc. Saying the rich are dependent on tax cuts betrays your ideology. It is the politicians who are dependent on spending others’ money!! Cutting taxes works. It worked for JFK. It worked for Reagan. It worked for W. Taxes were cut and However, if spending isn’t controlled, deficits will indeed go up. Tax cuts work. Raising taxes in a recession doesn’t work. All I can say is I hope you can consider the possibility that the poor can actually benefit if the rich have more money to invest or more money to purchase things. Trickle down is just a slogan that doesn’t contribute much to a substantive dialogue. As for slogans, I prefer “trickle down charity” which empowers bureaucrats not the poor.

Ishii
 
DeSanto said:
Hindsight 20-20…any one republican taken any responsibility for the deadlock in congress…the hostage crisis over the debt limit is one example. They’re just going a little too far with this stuff. you might not like who’s in office but** to be willing to let the country go down because of it is deplorable and unpatriotic.**
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Are you talking about Reid and Wasserman-Schultz? They have both said that they are okay with us going over a financial cliff, rather than extending the current tax rates.
 
Seniors have worked many years and contributed hard-earned money into Social Security payroll deductions, They’ve earned it. Further, they’re tired and age often brings health problems. And they’re on fixed incomes with the cost of living rising yearly, many losing value from their IRA investments in this economy. Seniors who had parents who survived the depression, have lived within, or often below, their means in order to put away a nest egg for their old age.

I agree that too many baby boomers are living beyond their means and not saving – it’s called a sense of entitlement. I fear they’ll have difficulty in retirement. And since we’ve been controlling the population through birth control and abortions, there won’t be enough younger, working people to support Social Security, etc.

Our country needs to meet on more common ground as I recall after World War II – not all this divisive far right and far left stuff. Isn’t there a saying “a country divided against itself will fall?”

God bless the USA!
 
rlg94086 said:
Are you talking about Reid and Wasserman-Schultz? They have both said that they are okay with us going over a financial cliff, rather than extending the current tax rates.
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Yes aided by Patty Murray (D-Wash) truly one of the stupidist women ever to serve. Patti said she was just fine with teaching those Republicans a lesson. If they won’t vote for tax increases we can just go over the cliff. Of course what she seems to conveniently forget is that the Bush Tax cuts provided a far larger percentage decrease to the low income folks. Who’s going to be truly hurt?

Lisa
 
DeSanto said:
I just saw your post, hang around for a minute and I’ll see if I can find it for you. Yes, I actually saw Obama sitting at a table surrounded with republicans asking for their ideas and stating several times he was serious about working together with them on this health care bill. I remember it’s when McCain was getting sassy with him because he was still mad HE wasn’t the president.
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I have seen that video of that Summit … I would not characterize that as Obama begging for help and Republicans refusing. Seems like they were offering their thoughts - both sides.

I saw and heard the republicans offering ideas - but that was when Obama was first elected - and he was not interested in what they had to say in any real way … he definaetly was not begging for help - He was exerting his power for the cameras … and it was not the typical CSPAN view of the House and Senate as you implied

The republicans were essentially told to get in line - that the Dems controlled both the Senate, the House and the White House … that was pretty much the only time they were given a chance to offer anything …

Harry Reid will not being bills passed by House to a floor vote in the Senate …🤷

No budgets passed even the two years Obama controlled all three WH, Senate and House … just out of control spending and denials of responsibility
 
meltzerboy said:
Good for Paul Ryan! Now, what about Mitt Romney, who says he paid no less than 13%? Abyssinia, can you contact Mitt and get a hold of HIS tax returns for the past few years?
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He has released his 1st year and when the 2011’s filings are ready will release those. He said that was the lowest he had paid but when you take charity donations in to consideration it would be 20%. Doubt most Americans who want a job and want the debt to stop ballooning care about Romney’s tax returns
 
meltzerboy said:
Good for Paul Ryan! Now, what about Mitt Romney, who says he paid no less than 13%? Abyssinia, can you contact Mitt and get a hold of HIS tax returns for the past few years?
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Lets see, 30% of a couple hundred thousand or 13% of millions…hmmmmmm.
 
meltzerboy said:
Good for Paul Ryan! Now, what about Mitt Romney, who says he paid no less than 13%? Abyssinia, can you contact Mitt and get a hold of HIS tax returns for the past few years?
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Honestly this is just plain silly. What on earth would you find in those returns that would make a difference in either your decision or create one single job or improve the life of one single American?

There is nothing noble, sacred or patriotic about paying more taxes than you owe. There is nothing noble, sacred or patriotic about setting up your finances not to maximize tax benefits. As Justice Learned Hand said, the rich and the poor do it. To do otherwise would just be stupid. Romney is not stupid and he’s rich because he’s smart enough to see opportunities in business and take advantage of them.

Also another double standard. No one cared a fig that when Kerry ran he reported paying minimal taxes due to his wife’s portfolio income. Oh and Kerry hid his boat so he wouldn’t have to pay use taxes. But hey move along…nothing to see here

I hope tongue in cheek meltzerboy, I’d think you would consider this a petty and silly issue.

Lisa
 
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