Paul Ryan!!

[PJD1987]

I am with you. I do not understand how anyone of faith could vote for the most pro-abortion President in the history of this country. I also do not understand how anyone could vote for the worst President of my lifetime. We have record debts, one third of this country is on welfare, he has no budget and no job plan, and that is his record on helping poor people. People want jobs!

DGB

What it is DGB is replacing the idea of the God of religion with the God of the state. And thus complete dependency on the state from cradle to grave renders religion unnecessary and “superstitious” and elevates man to God status. It’s a unrealistic and dangerous utopian vision that has played out throughout the 20th Century to disastrous results. One would think we would learn a little something from that.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[He_Man]

I agree Obama mishandled that situation, but I don’t agree that this a first amendment issue. The Church owns huge numbers of hospitals and other health care facilities. (In many instances, the Church has acted to limit contraception and abortion services by purchasing doctors; offices and forbidding doctors from providing those services, even in instances of rape or incest or danger to the mother.) The employees of those hospitals are Catholic and non-Catholics. Should non-Catholic workers be denied access to healthcare under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? I don’t think so, though I think the Obama administration could have worked out a compromise so the Church was paying for it.

If they were denied healthcare, you might have a point. The issue is a religious institution funding those things that violate their religious freedom. Someone else can pay for it, but certainly not those institutions. Even the liberal Bader Ginsburg hinted this wouldn’t fly.

Our religious freedoms are explicitly called out in the Constitution, and have been protected in numerous preceding cases. Guaranteed “free” healthcare is not a right under the Constitution, so even if we pass a law to provide that, the new law cannot trump a Constitutional guarantee.

 

[PJD1987]

Oh my goodness, you really need to do some research. In what way are employees DENIED contraception because their employer does not provide it free? You have once again completely mistaken the issue but when you use Democrat talking points in the place of facts that happens. Oh and you are in good company as my own Senator railed long and loud about “a few religious fanatics preventing women from receiving necessary health care!” It’s utterly ridiculous. If you have followed the Sandra Fluke Flap, you would know that birth control is easily and cheaply (if not free) available through many commercial or social services outlets.

You are a Protestant apparently and also apparently are not conversant with the teachings of the Church. I work at a Catholic Hospital. We do not provide abortions or sterilizations at this hospital because to do so would make us complicit in a grave sin. If someone wants an abortion, they have to go somewhere else although believe me we would love to convince them to choose life for their baby.

BTW could we get back to the thread? There are many many threads on the subject of the HHS Mandate and Obama’s war on religion, most specifically the Catholic church.

Lisa

Lisa,

It is all kind of interrelated especially when Mr. Ryan’s Catholicism gets brought up. If we wanted to stay on Mr. Ryan though, I think his budget’s application of the Church’s Teaching on subsidiarity is worth a mention, given that the Church’s own do not have a clear grasp on the Church’s social justice teaching and think it simply amounts to giving gobs of money to poor people with no plan to actually elevate them and restore their human dignity by getting them back to work, and depends instead, much more on creating a nanny-state for poor people to perpetually be poor.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[LisaA]

Lisa A:

Obama’s been managing two wars, killed Osama Bin Laden and has a national security policy that makes Bush look like a liberal. I don’t think he needs on the job training–he’s passed the audition.

Man oh man, you are a believer!! Let’s see…far as I can tell Obama is following along in President Bush’s footsteps from the PLANNED withdrawal from Iraq (although he managed to bungle that as well) to the retention of Gitmo. With regard to Afghanistan, I don’t think by a long stretch it is being managed. It either needs to be won or we need to leave and although I have been a strong supporter of our military policy, I am all for leaving that he**hole and its inhabitants. As to Osama’s death…HE killed Osama? Are you kidding? He sits in a nice safe climate conditioned conference room watching the REAL heroes take Osama down on a TV screen. Great work if you can get it.

Obama is an unmitigated disaster. As I told Meltzerboy, I’d vote for Mickey Mouse over Obama even if he is a Democrat

Lisa

 

[PJD1987]

If they were denied healthcare, you might have a point. The issue is a religious institution funding those things that violate their religious freedom. Someone else can pay for it, but certainly not those institutions. Even the liberal Bader Ginsburg hinted this wouldn’t fly.

Our religious freedoms are explicitly called out in the Constitution, and have been protected in numerous preceding cases. Guaranteed “free” healthcare is not a right under the Constitution, so even if we pass a law to provide that, the new law cannot trump a Constitutional guarantee.

Not to mention, He Man, as I said. Abortion and contraception is not health care. Pregnancy is not a disease, and contraception is $8 (or cheaper) at many places throughout the country.

Contraception has been widely available for years and years and has never been an issue before, now all of a sudden it is.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[CMatt25]

Lisa A:

Obama’s been managing two wars, killed Osama Bin Laden and has a national security policy that makes Bush look like a liberal. I don’t think he needs on the job training–he’s passed the audition.

Can you imagine had a Romney with Ryan by his side been Commander in Chief and had gotten Bin Laden, we’d never be hearing the end of it.

 

[PJD1987]

Can you imagine had a Romney with Ryan by his side been Commander in Chief and had gotten Bin Laden, we’d never be hearing the end of it.

Speculation and conjecture.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[DeSanto]

Could you cite examples of this “unprecedented sabotage” ?

I thought I did. Allowing to let our credit rating to be downgraded and Paul Ryan himself blamed Obama for that in his first vp speech!! It’s sad though, because if they would have compromised it would have been political suicide. I seem to remember Obama practically begging them to compromise with him. Remember every 10 dollars cut one dollar spent? I was paying attention. The unprecedented use of the fillabuster which had never been used in such a way in all of history! What about all the talk of death panels like our health care isn’t already being rationed by the insurance companies? Sabotage! Blocking common sense bills and them blaming him that nothing has happened. The jobs bills were blocked now they complain there aren’t enough jobs. Sabotage! All they seem to care about are those stupid tax breaks foe rich people, they just will not let it go, will they?

Believe me, it is so hard for me to argue with my brothers and sisters in Christ about these issues. If abortion, contraception and gay marriage were the only issues here it would be an easy choice. But honestly, I feel our faith and consciousness is being used to divide us as a country and am very concerned we are being deceived into voting against our own best interest. People are eating this stuff up.

 

[LisaA]

Lisa,

It is all kind of interrelated especially when Mr. Ryan’s Catholicism gets brought up. If we wanted to stay on Mr. Ryan though, I think his budget’s application of the Church’s Teaching on subsidiarity is worth a mention, given that the Church’s own do not have a clear grasp on the Church’s social justice teaching and think it simply amounts to giving gobs of money to poor people with no plan to actually elevate them and restore their human dignity by getting them back to work, and depends instead, much more on creating a nanny-state for poor people to perpetually be poor.

God bless.

-Paul

Paul you’re right, although it seemed we were getting far afield and I’m am guilty too in responding to the comments regarding Obama.

You are also correct that many, particularly on the Left, cannot distinguish between charity and tax policies. We’re called to be charitable, not to send our money to Caesar to keep or distribute. As you said, government could learn a lot about effective programs by applying Catholic Social Teaching which as noted has the concept of subsidiarity. The idea that sending increasing money to the federal government to distribute to its favorites and cronies, is somehow a charitable act is beyond my ability to connect the dots. But it is a favorite cry of the Left that if we dont’ want ever increasing amounts of our income going down the federal rathole never to be seen again, we are cruel and “hate the poor.” As I’ve said many times, the Left loves the poor, they’ve created so many more OF them.

With the massive spending increases by the Obama regime, we’ve seen MORE people fall into poverty. We have more people on food stamps and government assistance. Somehow the idea that spending ourselves into prosperity doesn’t ring true to me.
Further with all the handwringing about the poor by the Left, no one mentions how many poor could have been fed with the Solyndra loan, not to mention the rest of the plan to turn green money into red ink.
Lisa

 

[PJD1987]

I thought I did. Allowing to let our credit rating to be downgraded and Paul Ryan himself blamed Obama for that in his first vp speech!! It’s sad though, because if they would have compromised it would have been political suicide. I seem to remember Obama practically begging them to compromise with him. Remember every 10 dollars cut one dollar spent? I was paying attention. The unprecedented use of the fillabuster which had never been used in such a way in all of history! What about all the talk of death panels like our health care isn’t already being rationed by the insurance companies? Sabotage! Blocking common sense bills and them blaming him that nothing has happened. The jobs bills were blocked now they complain there aren’t enough jobs. Sabotage! All they seem to care about are those stupid tax breaks foe rich people, they just will not let it go, will they?

Believe me, it is so hard for me to argue with my brothers and sisters in Christ about these issues. If abortion, contraception and gay marriage were the only issues here it would be an easy choice. But honestly, I feel our faith and consciousness is being used to divide us as a country and am very concerned we are being deceived into voting against our own best interest. People are eating this stuff up.

It’s very simple, when it comes to abortion and contraception, it is the only issue for a Catholic. If both candidates are pro-life, then we can move on to a discussion about other issues. But number one above all else, according to the constant Teaching of our faith is the life issue. If a candidate is pro-abortion and you vote for him/her, you are committing a grave sin. End of story. The Church has spoken.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[LisaA]

Can you imagine had a Romney with Ryan by his side been Commander in Chief and had gotten Bin Laden, we’d never be hearing the end of it.

And you base this on??? If anything Romney is criticized for being too humble and too reluctant to bring up his accomplishments. Ditto for Ryan. He is known as a very humble man.

OTOH we have Obama who claimed he could make the oceans fall and heal the planet Quite contrast.

Lisa

 

[PJD1987]

Further with all the handwringing about the poor by the Left, no one mentions how many poor could have been fed with the Solyndra loan
Lisa

They are quick to point out, however, how many poor could be clothed and fed if the Vatican sold everything it has. But I digress (bad habit).

It’s also unfortunate that the USCCB is run by liberal lay staff rather than the Bishops themselves, any Catholic worth their salt is aware of that. And the fact that the USCCB came out lambasting the Ryan Budget gives more ammunition to the left’s argument, but its a false argument and at the Bishop’s annual meeting many of the Bishop’s spoke up and pointed to the fact that even they themselves have neglected to apply the subsidiarity philosophy when it comes to the poor.

All in all, it is a false argument and dilemma created to obfuscate a very sincere effort on Mr. Ryan’s part to save this country for the fiscal calamity we are heading towards.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[LisaA]

I thought I did. Allowing to let our credit rating to be downgraded and Paul Ryan himself blamed Obama for that in his first vp speech!! It’s sad though, because if they would have compromised it would have been political suicide. I seem to remember Obama practically begging them to compromise with him. Remember every 10 dollars cut one dollar spent? I was paying attention. The unprecedented use of the fillabuster which had never been used in such a way in all of history! What about all the talk of death panels like our health care isn’t already being rationed by the insurance companies? Sabotage! Blocking common sense bills and them blaming him that nothing has happened. The jobs bills were blocked now they complain there aren’t enough jobs. Sabotage! All they seem to care about are those stupid tax breaks foe rich people, they just will not let it go, will they?

Believe me, it is so hard for me to argue with my brothers and sisters in Christ about these issues. If abortion, contraception and gay marriage were the only issues here it would be an easy choice. But honestly, I feel our faith and consciousness is being used to divide us as a country and am very concerned we are being deceived into voting against our own best interest. People are eating this stuff up.

They haven’t passed a budget in three years. Who’s fault is that? Oh yes, the DEMOCRAT SENATE seems to be blocking the bills. How many bills are sitting there waiting for Harry Reid to act? As to Obama’s budgets, they didn’t even get a SINGLE Democrat vote.

But hey it sounds great to claim it’s all the fault of the evil Republicans who were completely out of power for two years and now have only one house in Congress. But the facts don’t matter to the Left.

Lisa

 

[DeniseNY]

I thought I did. Allowing to let our credit rating to be downgraded and Paul Ryan himself blamed Obama for that in his first vp speech!! It’s sad though, because if they would have compromised it would have been political suicide. I seem to remember Obama practically begging them to compromise with him. Remember every 10 dollars cut one dollar spent? I was paying attention. The unprecedented use of the fillabuster which had never been used in such a way in all of history! What about all the talk of death panels like our health care isn’t already being rationed by the insurance companies? Sabotage! Blocking common sense bills and them blaming him that nothing has happened. The jobs bills were blocked now they complain there aren’t enough jobs. Sabotage! All they seem to care about are those stupid tax breaks foe rich people, they just will not let it go, will they?

Believe me, it is so hard for me to argue with my brothers and sisters in Christ about these issues. If abortion, contraception and gay marriage were the only issues here it would be an easy choice. But honestly, I feel our faith and consciousness is being used to divide us as a country and am very concerned we are being deceived into voting against our own best interest. People are eating this stuff up.

1. The downgrade was because of this administration’s profligate spending. And who refused to cut spending?
2. Obama’s “jobs bill” wasn’t really a jobs bill. That’s a misnomer. It was more stimulus spending thrown on top of over $800mm already flushed down the toilet with the first stimulus. The president’s party wasn’t even united on it.
3. Unprecedented fillibuster? I seem to remember filibustering in 2004 (or maybe 03) against judicial nominees.

 

[gilliam]

George Will:

When Ryan said in Norfolk, “We won’t replace our Founding principles, we will reapply them,” he effectively challenged Obama to say what Obama believes, which is: Madison was an extremist in enunciating the principles of limited government — the enumeration and separation of powers. And Jefferson was an extremist in asserting that government exists not to grant rights but to “secure” natural rights that pre-exist government.

Romney’s selection of a running mate was, in method and outcome, presidential. It underscores how little in the last four years merits that adjective.

washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-will-romneys-presidential-pick/2012/08/12/9075c0e4-e48c-11e1-936a-b801f1abab19_story.html?wprss=rss_opinions

I guess he liked the pick.

 

[PJD1987]

George Will:

When Ryan said in Norfolk, “We won’t replace our Founding principles, we will reapply them,” he effectively challenged Obama to say what Obama believes, which is: Madison was an extremist in enunciating the principles of limited government — the enumeration and separation of powers. And Jefferson was an extremist in asserting that government exists not to grant rights but to “secure” natural rights that pre-exist government.

Romney’s selection of a running mate was, in method and outcome, presidential. It underscores how little in the last four years merits that adjective.

washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-will-romneys-presidential-pick/2012/08/12/9075c0e4-e48c-11e1-936a-b801f1abab19_story.html?wprss=rss_opinions

I guess he liked the pick.

I’m surprised WaPo published that!

God bless.

-Paul

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Yes:

He’s from Wiscansin

He’s Catholic and seems to be devout

He isn’t a Rockefeller Repub like Romney (despite the fact that everyone here claims Romney is actually conservative ) but also not a Tea Party nut, while still being conservative. A good combo.

'nuff said.

Ya, because us “Tea Party Nuts” are just crazy, with all of our talk about fiscal responsibility and deficit reduction.

 

[rlg94086]

BTW, Romney would never have picked Mickey Mouse since the latter is essentially a democrat according to reliable reports.

That reminds me of when people say “this isn’t some Mickey Mouse company.” The Mickey Mouse company has done pretty well.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

1. The downgrade was because of this administration’s profligate spending. And who refused to cut spending?
2. Obama’s “jobs bill” wasn’t really a jobs bill. That’s a misnomer. It was more stimulus spending thrown on top of over $800mm already flushed down the toilet with the first stimulus. The president’s party wasn’t even united on it.
3. Unprecedented fillibuster? I seem to remember filibustering in 2004 (or maybe 03) against judicial nominees.

It wasn’t flushed down the toilet, it was a taxpayer funded bribe to the unions.

 

[DeniseNY]

Yes, I beg your pardon!