Paul Ryan!!

[SamH]

Paul Ryan is anit-Catholic because he’d kill Medicare. He’d replace Medicare with vouchers for retirees to purchase insurance, eliminating the guarantee of health care for seniors and putting them at the mercy of the private insurance industry. That could amount to a cost increase of more than $5,900 by 2050, leaving many seniors broke or without the health care they need. He’d also raise the age of eligibility to 67. Catholics want to help the poor. Obama is assisting the middle class, the working class and the poor so he is following Jesus and his teachings.

Totally unhinged rant with no basis in fact or even fiction.

 

[soma]

This thread is about Paul Ryan and his budget is not Christian. He’d dismantle Social Security. Ironically, Ryan used the Social Security Survivors benefit to help pay for college, but he wants to take that possibility away from future generations. He agrees with Rick Perry’s view that Social Security is a “Ponzi scheme” and he supported George W. Bush’s disastrous proposal to privatize Social Security.

 

[SamH]

This thread is about Paul Ryan and his budget is not Christian. He’d dismantle Social Security. Ironically, Ryan used the Social Security Survivors benefit to help pay for college, but he wants to take that possibility away from future generations. He agrees with Rick Perry’s view that Social Security is a “Ponzi scheme” and he supported George W. Bush’s disastrous proposal to privatize Social Security.

Totally unhinged rant with no basis in fact or even fiction

 

[estesbob]

Paul Ryan is anit-Catholic because he’d kill Medicare. He’d replace Medicare with vouchers for retirees to purchase insurance, eliminating the guarantee of health care for seniors and putting them at the mercy of the private insurance industry. That could amount to a cost increase of more than $5,900 by 2050, leaving many seniors broke or without the health care they need. He’d also raise the age of eligibility to 67. Catholics want to help the poor. Obama is assisting the middle class, the working class and the poor so he is following Jesus and his teachings.

Ryan doesn’t kill medicare

There is no “Catholic” position on medicare. The Church neither enforces nor opposes either Ryan’s or Obamas Medicare plans

Under Ryans plan everyone currently 55 or over stays on the exact same program in place now. People under 55 will have the option of going on a voucher system OR signing up for the exact same program we have in place now.

 

[scipio337]

Totally unhinged rant with no basis in fact or even fiction

I’m guessing people sourcing an outlandish claim is anathema?

 

[CMatt25]

Obama is a good Christian that is following Christian values. Joe Biden is a good Catholic that cares about the poor and the working middle class. Mitt Romney a Mormon has shown by his actions that he cares more about money than people. Paul Ryan is a Catholic that Bishops and nuns have said does not follow Catholic policies towards the poor. He would give big tax cuts for millionaires, while raising taxes on the middle-class. He’s a Tea Party favorite who takes donations from the billionaire Koch brothers, and he introduced one of harshest and most inhumane budgets in recent history. His ideological hero for many years called selfishness a virtue and charity an abomination.

You make some good points about each. But the bishops who do not oppose Ryan’s budget seem to be given more credence here than the ones and the nuns who do question how harsh and humane it is.

 

[estesbob]

This thread is about Paul Ryan and his budget is not Christian. He’d dismantle Social Security. Ironically, Ryan used the Social Security Survivors benefit to help pay for college, but he wants to take that possibility away from future generations. He agrees with Rick Perry’s view that Social Security is a “Ponzi scheme” and he supported George W. Bush’s disastrous proposal to privatize Social Security.

The Ryan budget doesn’t dismantle Social Security. in fact it does not cut it one penny. Where do you get this stuff>

 

[scipio337]

…Obama is assisting the middle class, the working class and the poor so he is following Jesus and his teachings.

Except for the whole part about destroying life, supporting same sex “marriage”, and forcing Catholics to violate their conscience??



That is a pretty outlandish claim.

 

[estesbob]

You make some good points about each. But the bishops who do not oppose Ryan’s budget seem to be given more credence here than the ones and the nuns who do question how harsh and humane it is.

Only two Bishops and 6 nuns opposed Ryan’s budget. 6 Nuns who also reject church teaching on abortion, female ordination and homosexuality. Unless one is trying to create their own Faith based on their political views i dont see how anyone would give these nuns much credence.

 

[SamH]

That is a pretty outlandish claim.

Probably a Joe Biden supporter. There has to a be a few out there.

 

[rlg94086]

Paul, when you were thinking about starting a new continuing thread of this topic once it was closed for being over the 1000 post mark, I said I would not be joining you on the new thread about this same topic. As far as the board I only know it is a reason why I have not worshiped in a Catholic Church for a few mos.

I can’t tell you how sad it is that your faith decisions are based on an online forum.

 

[CMatt25]

Thanks.

Didn’t mean to make you blush. But no thank you bellasbane.

 

[scipio337]

Lots of people on this thread and on this forum. They are using the same “arguments” you have stated on this thread to support their contention that the Democratic Party positions are in line with Catholic social teaching. They could not be more ill-formed or more poorly catechized.

No, but this thread is increasingly about how “un-Catholic” any non-Democratic-Party position is. And I’m here to tell you that there is zero support, either in tradiitonal Catholicism, or in modern Catholicsm, from St. Peter to Pope Benedict XVI, which equates Romney’s or Ryan’s positions with opposing Catholic social teaching as a whole, or which suggests that a vote for either is a vote against Catholic social justice.

Well, for one thing, it means the opposite of your understanding, which is frankly poor, and underdeveloped, at least as you have expressed them on this thread with regard to Catholic social teaching. I have already highlighted those poor understandings, earlier on the thread.

Full just means comprehensive as to essentials. It is a moral requirement of every Catholic beyond Confirmation to become fully acquainted with the essentials of Catholic moral teaching (including how those precepts and principles apply to contemporary political issues); those are insufficiently presented within RCIA programs, and they most certainly do not correspond with your telescoped and partial view of the Church’s social doctrine.

Another example in which you fail to understand your faith. Catholics have a grave duty, according to every Pope from Peter to BXVI, to apply their own full understanding of Catholic priorities to their voting decisions. It has nothing to do with selling out to a “non-Catholic nation” or to the original deist founders. Our grave moral obligation as Catholics is to witness to our faith in every realm, including the civic/political realm. This is just one of the many examples of your failure to understand your faith.

Most excellent post!

 

[estesbob]

Except for the whole part about destroying life, supporting same sex “marriage”, and forcing Catholics to violate their conscience??



That is a pretty outlandish claim.

And of course increasing poverty and unemployment, skyrocketing college costs and an auto Bailout that has cost us over 30 billion dollars and has benefited the UAW more than anyone else.

 

[CMatt25]

I can’t tell you how sad it is that your faith decisions are based on an online forum.

The forum has a name.

 

[soma]

A History Of Paul Ryan’s Attempts To Dismantle Social Security

By Travis Waldron on Jul 30, 2012 at 4:50 pm

That House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI) supports the privatization of Social Security is well known. Ryan proposed $1.2 trillion in cuts and the partial privatization of Social Security upon taking control of the Budget Committee in 2011, and he has constantly warned about the supposed doom facing the program if major reforms aren’t enacted immediately.

But Ryan’s attempts to gut the most popular entitlement program in America go back quite a few years, as Ryan Lizza’s New Yorker profile of the conservative hero makes clear. Ryan’s fight against Social Security has been ongoing since he pushed President George W. Bush to privatize the program in 2005:

 

[scipio337]

Obama is a good Christian that is following Christian values. Joe Biden is a good Catholic that cares about the poor and the working middle class. Mitt Romney a Mormon has shown by his actions that he cares more about money than people. Paul Ryan is a Catholic that Bishops and nuns have said does not follow Catholic policies towards the poor. He would give big tax cuts for millionaires, while raising taxes on the middle-class. He’s a Tea Party favorite who takes donations from the billionaire Koch brothers, and he introduced one of harshest and most inhumane budgets in recent history. His ideological hero for many years called selfishness a virtue and charity an abomination.

Good grief!

Obama and Biden don’t take donation from billionaires? How many $25,000/plate Obama fundraisers have you been to???

I don’t mind you pointing out what you feel are shortcomings, but it seems dishonest to suggest that Obama the “good Christian” and Biden the “good Catholic” don’t do the same.

 

[He_Man]

Obama is a good Christian that is following Christian values. Joe Biden is a good Catholic that cares about the poor and the working middle class. Mitt Romney a Mormon has shown by his actions that he cares more about money than people. Paul Ryan is a Catholic that Bishops and nuns have said does not follow Catholic policies towards the poor. He would give big tax cuts for millionaires, while raising taxes on the middle-class. He’s a Tea Party favorite who takes donations from the billionaire Koch brothers, and he introduced one of harshest and most inhumane budgets in recent history. His ideological hero for many years called selfishness a virtue and charity an abomination.

If you are going to make stuff up, at least use arguments that are correct. Ryan’s plan attempts to fix Medicare, not dismantle social security. Sheesh.

 

[bellasbane]

Richard Gerson has called the HHS mandate ‘the most blatantly anti-Catholic legislation since the Blaine amendment.’

I’ve read a lot about virulentl anti-Catholicism in the 1920’s, driving by ‘Nativists’ and the KKK, but this time it’s the government leading the charge, with Obama and Sebelius in the forefront. The administration is dangerously anti-Catholic and anti-Christian.

You talk about the KKK, what about Republican immigration and voter intimidation policies? What are they if not an attack on Catholic Hispanics who overwhelmingly support Obama?

We’ve seen such attacks before on the Irish and Italians - now its the Hispanics. The only difference is that too many white Catholics have forgotten their own history and have joined in the persecution.

 

[estesbob]

I can’t tell you how sad it is that your faith decisions are based on an online forum.

What happens is a lot of people come here and are, for the first time, are exposed to what the Church actually teaches. We give them direct quotes from the Vatican and Member of the Magestrium and they suddenly realize they can not reconcile their politics with what the Church actually teaches. Some. like myself some 30 years ago, change their political allegiances. Some leave the Church.