Paul Ryan!!

[bellasbane]

I stand by my critique of Melinda Gates. She isn’t the topic of this thread though. ANd I applauded at the comment that you spend alot of time thoroughly denouncing Paul Ryan for his acceptance of certain truisms of Ayn Rand (Even Karl Marx got a few things right) while remaining utterly silent on the intrinsic evils supported by people you like, such as Obama, Biden, Pelosi, et al…

I’m not silent about abortion issues when speaking to nonbelievers, but what is the point of preaching to the choir? Contrary to what many people on this forum believe, the Bishops have been very successful in maintaining the pro-life message among faithful Catholics against the forces of organizations like Planned Parenthood. Nobody ever argues with me when I show them a photo of a healthy 20 week old fetus and say, “Tell me this is not a person!”.

Obama is not Catholic - so like Romney, he can’t be expected to really appreciate the arguments found in Evangelium Vitae (although I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s read it). Romney’s two recent grandchildren were born from a surrogate mother using in vitro fertilization and Mormons are not prohibited from ending the life of a fetus if it is seriously defective - so he doesn’t have the background to fully appreciate the sacredness of human life either. He does talk about supporting personhood - but I’m not convinced he means it.

I believe Obama’s motivation is to defend what he believes are policies that endanger the lives of women. I can understand this, because I believe he honestly thinks he is dealing with only one person - not two. Regardless of what people say about the wonders of pregnancy - having been pregnant myself, I know first hand that it can be VERY scary and dangerous when things go wrong. No point putting your head in the sand about it.

Biden, Pelosi & Sebelius are Catholic - which puts them in a different category. They should understand the implications of Evangelium Vitae and be able to articulate its message about the sanctity of life. On the other hand, they clearly believe that the federal government should have no authority to restrict a woman’s reproductive rights. Women today will not tolerate the government getting under their skirts (and rightly so!) and the idea that such rights do not exist (according to Scalia) is dangerous for many reasons. Nevertheless, Catholic politicians should not pander to abortion rights activists.

Personally, I see a lot of parallels between abortion rights activists and gun rights activists. You may not agree (I’m sure you won’t!), but I see the same pattern of entrenched defensiveness on both sides. Both fear to give an inch lest the government take a yard, which makes it nearly impossible to get either of them to listen to reason.

Back to the topic on hand:

I’m so impressed to hear you say Karl Marx got some things right! That’s a really good point. It’s best argument I’ve heard so far for taking a second look at Ayn Rand.

However, Paul Ryan is wrong. His vision for the American economy and role of government is antithetical to Catholic social teaching. I’ve spent some time reading about Catholic political and economic theory and it has been quite an education. The Bishops have NOT been inconsistent in their messaging. So if you find yourself at odds with them with respect to things like unions and entitlements for the poor - you’re not operating under a Catholic paradigm.

Take Care!

 

[Elizabeth502]

I have no problem challenging assumptions.

Nor do I. Of course, as I’m sure you understand (but clearly not everyone on this forum does ), there’s a respectful, thoughtful, and non-vicious way to challenge assumptions, or at least to question/debate them. I myself have opened a couple of threads recently, challenging assumptions on the right and on the left. (And so have others, people like markomalley, CopticChristian, others.)

You know I challenge the “right” often (although I more think that the left is wrong more often).

Ditto. And I’ve also stated that the Republican Party platform, and/or Congressional Republicans, often oppose or seem to oppose Catholic social teaching, and that those realities or appearances need to be acknowledged when they occur.

**What I have a problem with is someone taking on the persona of a persecuted doctor of the church **and attacking things that may rightly need to be confronted, while at the same time ignoring things that are far more evil because they favor the political stance of said person.

Bolding mine. Note also that no Doctor of the Church has ever compromised on issues of intrinsic evil in order to promote other Church doctrines (or carefully excised portions of doctrines), as if The Faith can be deconstructed in such a fashion. The attempt to do so demonstrates how poorly such people understand the integrated teachings, and how they cannot be separated – whether those people are baptized Catholics, adult converts, or teach religion.

 

[_Abyssinia]

However, Paul Ryan is wrong. His vision for the American economy and role of government is antithetical to Catholic social teaching. I’ve spent some time reading about Catholic political and economic theory and it has been quite an education. The Bishops have NOT been inconsistent in their messaging. So if you find yourself at odds with them with respect to things like unions and entitlements for the poor - you’re not operating under a Catholic paradigm

Bishop Morlino says Ryan used prudential judgement and did that in accordance with Catholic principals

madisoncatholicherald.org/bishopscolumns/3366-bishop-column.html

youtube.com/watch?v=USDwb78VfUU

You may disagree with the budget but it is not not in keeping with Catholic teaching

 

[stevegravy]

It is remarkable to me how “progressives” are actually living in nostalgia for the past. Instead of being “progressive”, they’re astonishingly “reactionary”. Examples:

No jobs? Well, try to reinstitute labor union dominated pricing of the 1950s when the rest of the world’s industry was in ruins and manufacturers could pass any cost on to consumers. Never mind that you have to tax everybody more or borrow to pay for that trip down memory lane.

Poverty? Nothing better than returning to the confiscatory/redistributive policies of the failed socialist societies and the revolutionary romanticism of the 1930s. Most of all, suppress the middle class “Kulaks”.

Social policy? Easy. Look to Virginia Woolf and Neitsche, as well as the anti-Catholicism of the French Revolution and the reign of Masonic oppressors in Mexico. And, of course, there’s always Sartre and the Marquis de Sade.

Environment? Nothing to it. Never mind incentivizing people in the countryside who actually do protect the environment and control most of it. Better turn to 1962 and “Silent Spring” emotionalism and contrived science. Ban everything you guess or want to think might have an effect on the environment, especially if it’s helpful to people.

Transportation? By golly, if riding bikes for transportation was good enough in Mao’s day for the masses, it’s good enough for American commuters today, unless, of course, they want to drive an updated 1910 electric car that will actually go 30 miles before exhausting its charge instead of 5. And people don’t need to fly from NYC to LA in a few hours when they can ride for two days in a train like Great-Grandpa did.

Energy? Our ancestors shivered in the dark during the winter, wore heavy clothing indoors and didn’t bathe very often due to lack of energy resources and primitiveness thereof. There is no reason why we should not be as conserving and intrepid as they. If we can make utility bills “skyrocket” by making energy hard to get, that ought to do it. And too, our ancestors pumped water with windmills and heated water for washing with sun-warmed tanks on their roofs. The few industries that existed in the 1700s ran on water wheels. We need to return to updated versions of that. And never mind that hundreds of elderly people died in France without air conditioning a few years back during a heat wave. It takes too much energy to keep them alive. But they’re old, and outlived their 1812 life spans anyway.

Race relations? We shouldn’t just be ignoring race as a factor in economic and social relations like the conservatives do. Hispanics and blacks should FEEL THE WEIGHT of their racial and ethnic heritage and find reasons to resent everyone else even if the reasons have to be invented. After all, just because racial oppression can’t be detected, that just means it’s more subtle. We need to talk about chains so they’ll think it’s still 1858. Since they can’t understand regular English, we have to imitate 1890 minstrel show “black accents” when we talk to them.

Food? There’s that energy thing again. It takes fuel to produce it. Better to raise our food with muscle power and make it at least as expensive relative to income as it was in 1850. A very good example can be set if the president pretends to rely on a vegetable garden on the white house grounds. Never mind that he actually eats Wagyu beef that comes all the way from Japan. That’s different. Divine right of kings, and all that.

And (for now) last, but certainly not least. We need to return to the 19th century social organization of Bismarck. Suppress Catholicism whenever possible. Propagandize children in the schools so they will think the government is right in everything and that their existence is unimaginable without government intervention at every turn. Regiment and regulate the society as much as one can. Set up an elitist bureaucracy that regulates every detail of peoples’ lives. And most of all, get in bed with the big capitalists that can help you stay in power…as long as they pay money and lip service to statism.

I have to go out of town today, burning fuel as I go. It’s probably a good thing. Don’t want to get injured by the bombs that will be thrown in response to this half-joking post.

Please explain which part you are half joking about, you pretty much seem to be correct in representing many of the lobbyist positions.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Bishop Morlino says the budget is in accordance with Catholic principals and he defended Ryan

Is that also the opinion of the rest of the American bishops?

 

[CMatt25]

I’despect posters like Bellasbane and CMatt if they at least felt like they could not in good faith vote for *either *side. I’d think they gave to much credence to the Rand stuff, but at least it would give them some legitimacy.

shaw: I haven’t mentioned Rand but you honor me too much He Man to place me in the company of Bellasbane. :blushing:

 

[_Abyssinia]

Is that also the opinion of the rest of the American bishops?

Not every American Bishop has commented on it so I could not tell you

 

[_Abyssinia]

Is that also the opinion of the rest of the American bishops?

Not every American Bishop has commented on it so I could not tell you, but with due respect Bishop Morlino has authority on what is considered in accordance with Catholic principal

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Is that also the opinion of the rest of the American bishops?

It is the opinion of Ryan’s bishop. As far as Ryan is concerned, he is all that matters.

 

[Ecoclimber]

Romney’s right: Obamacare cuts Medicare by $716 billion. Here’s how

washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/14/romneys-right-obamacare-cuts-medicare-by-716-billion-heres-how

New RNC ad on Obama’s medicare cuts

youtube.com/watch?v=8pcGy4-KcYA

No, he is not being truthful. He is lying The GOP is spinning a lie long enough that it has become fact This has already been debunked the $716 billion dollar cut as outline in OMB report, was not cutting payments to medicare recipients but for future growth reduction to medical PROVIDERS and the results in saving would allow more people to be covered. You probably prefer the voucher system where senior citizens on $1400 SS will get a $6000 voucher to buy health insurance which will cost $16,000. Good luck on that one.

Even Paul Ryan doesn’t know how it will are work out. Watch how a CNN and a Fox news Reporter rip into Romeny’s chief campaign adviser and Paul Ryan as well

John Sununu bit off more than he can chew when he started ranting at CNN’s Soledad O’Brien Tuesday afternoon. In a rare display of journalistic back bone in the face of right-wing accusations of liberal bias, O’Brien essentially told a conservative bully to take his propaganda and stuff it.
CNN Host Crushes Lying Romney Surrogate (VIDEO)**

Pawlenty suggests that Soledad O’Brien doesn’t understand English
**rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/15/pawlenty-suggests-that-soledad-obrien-doesnt-understand-english/

**
Last night, newly ensconced Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan sat down for his first solo interview with Fox News’ Brit Hume and let slip an admission about Mitt Romney’s budget plan – an admission that’s receiving surprisingly little press attention. Asked by Hume when the Romney plan would balance the budget, Ryan said he didn’t know because “we haven’t run the numbers on that specific plan.”**

"We Haven’t Run The Numbers:" A Startling Ryan Admission That’s Getting Little Attention

I’m neither Left nor Right, GOP or Democrat. I’m an Independent applying Catholic/Christian principles to an immoral world

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Not every American Bishop has commented on it so I could not tell you, but with due respect Bishop Morlino has authority on what is considered in accordance with Catholic principal

Therefore, there are those bishops who may well disagree with Ryan and their fellow bishops about that. Bishop Morlino’s opinion must be given careful attention, but his is but one opinion.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It is the opinion of Ryan’s bishop. As far as Ryan is concerned, he is all that matters.

Isn’t Catholic Teaching that we are to follow the bishop of our own diocese? Bishops do not have authority outside of their own diocese?

 

[_Abyssinia]

Therefore, there are those bishops who may well disagree with Ryan and their fellow bishops about that. Bishop Morlino’s opinion must be given careful attention, but his is but one opinion.

Fact is every US Bishop denounced the HHS mandate, 2 have critiqued the budget

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It is the opinion of Ryan’s bishop. As far as Ryan is concerned, he is all that matters.

Sure, and if the Bishop of Little Rock were to disagree with Bishop Morlino, Bishop Taylor’s opinion should be the only one that matters to me???

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Isn’t Catholic Teaching that we are to follow the bishop of our own diocese? Bishops do not have authority outside of their own diocese?

Right. Ryan conferred with his bishop, Bishop Morlino. So as far as Ryan is concerned, Bishop Morlino’s opinion is the only one that matters.

 

[_Abyssinia]

No he is not. He is lying The GOP is spinning a lie long enough that it has become fact This has already been debunked $716 billion dollar cut as outline OMB, was not cutting payments to medicare recipients but for future growth reduction to medical PROVIDERS and the results in saving would allow more people to be cover. You probably prefer the voucher system where senior citizens on $1400 SS will get a $6000 voucher to buy health insurance which will cost $16,000. Good luck on that one.

Even Paul Ryan doesn’t know how it will are work out. Watch how a CNN and a Fox news Reporter rip into Romeny’s chief campaign adviser and Paul Ryan as well

John Sununu bit off more than he can chew when he started ranting at CNN’s Soledad O’Brien Tuesday afternoon. In a rare display of journalistic back bone in the face of right-wing accusations of liberal bias, O’Brien essentially told a conservative bully to take his propaganda and stuff it.
CNN Host Crushes Lying Romney Surrogate (VIDEO)**

Pawlenty suggests that Soledad O’Brien doesn’t understand English**
rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/15/pawlenty-suggests-that-soledad-obrien-doesnt-understand-english/

**
Last night, newly ensconced Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan sat down for his first solo interview with Fox News’ Brit Hume and let slip an admission about Mitt Romney’s budget plan – an admission that’s receiving surprisingly little press attention. Asked by Hume when the Romney plan would balance the budget, Ryan said he didn’t know because “we haven’t run the numbers on that specific plan.”**

"We Haven’t Run The Numbers:" A Startling Ryan Admission That’s Getting Little Attention

I’m neither Left nor Right, GOP or Democrat. I’m an Independent applying Catholic/Christian principles to an immoral world

Media matters as a source? It is a pro abortion, pro homosexual marriage, anti Catholic organisation

Medicare cuts in ObamaTax directly effect the elderly by cutting medicare advantage payment rates by 2017 an average of $3700 for every person. 27% below what recipients would receive with out ObamaTax. If they lose $3700 annually in Medicare from 65 years old until their death at 78 they would lose $44000 in benefits and medicare spending would increase $25 billion with ObamaTax

ObamaTax 15 member bureaucrat unelected board will likely impact the elderly’s health care because they will look at health care records, and how many quality years you have left and if they believe you have few quality years and the cost of a treatment is high you may get rationing

Before ObamaTax was passed people said abortion funding will not be part of the law, but pro life groups knew it would and it is fact

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Isn’t Catholic Teaching that we are to follow the bishop of our own diocese? Bishops do not have authority outside of their own diocese?

I believe that you are correct. Which could mean that your bishop and mine can hold totally opposite opinions about something like a national budget. I’d have no problem with that.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Sure, and if the Bishop of Little Rock were to disagree with Bishop Morlino, Bishop Taylor’s opinion should be the only one that matters to me???

Which is all irrelevant, since the actor in this case is Ryan and his bishop is Morlino. You, your opinion, and the opinion of Bishop Taylor (God bless him) aren’t really relevant. Bishop Morlino admitted that he isn’t an economic expert, so won’t comment on specifics, and will not endorse any particular politician, as it is not within the scope of his office. But, what Bishop Morlino can do is testify to the veracity of Ryan’s sincere effort to develop a budget that honors the spirit of Catholic doctrine, since that IS in the purview of Bishop Morlino’s authority as the Apostolic See of Ryan’s diocese.

 

[scipio337]

…CNN Host Crushes Lying Romney Surrogate (VIDEO)

**…

I saw the Sununu/Obrien exchange, and I have to admit I thought Sununu got the better of her by far.

O’brien was caught red-handed reading a Talking Points Memo blog while interviewing Barbara Comstock:

http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/main_photos/2012/August/Soledah 813.png

Blown up:

http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/main_photos/2012/August/Soledad Busted.jpg

What she’s reading from is a TPM article titled "The Myth Of Paul Ryan The Bipartisan Leader" published Monday at 6:08 PM only a few hours before this program started.

newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/08/13/soledad-obrien-caught-reading-liberal-blog-during-heated-debate-romne

This is the first time I’ve seen anyone on the left categorize a DECREASE in SPENDING GROWTH as anything other than a “CUT”

Sununu was right. Obrien should put an Obama bumper sticker on your forehead when she interviews.**

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

But, what Bishop Morlino can do is testify to the veracity of Ryan’s sincere effort to develop a budget that honors the spirit of Catholic doctrine, since that IS in the purview of Bishop Morlino’s authority as the Apostolic See of Ryan’s diocese.

I agree. Attesting to a person’s sincerity is well within his authority.