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edwest2
Guest
And I don’t think anyone else has the right to force their personal beliefs on me either. We are not on a one-way street here. Or do you think nobody votes for what they want?
Peace,
Ed
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Peace,
Ed
D
DeniseNY
Guest
Could you cite examples of this “unprecedented sabotage” ?
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PJD1987
Guest
Number one, please read up on the actual facts of the matter and learn that Mr. Obama and the Democrats are the ones obstructing. The House Republicans have passed numerous things that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid refuses to bring up for a vote. The Senate refuses to debate the ideas of Republicans, Mr. Obama invited Paul Ryan to an address on the budget and then eviscerated the Ryan Plan, right in front of him, after HE had invited him. Republicans wanted to negotiate about Healthcare but were rebuffed and instead Obamacare, a massive entitlement that does worse things to the economy than anything the Republicans want or have done, was shoved down the people’s throats, despite massive disapproval of the plan.
Number two, it’s very simple that the this president is persecuting the Catholic Church and forcing us to go against our conscience, making us comply with things we see as intrinsically evil. That is what is truly disgusting, and what truly makes me sick.
As Catholics, this is enough to not vote for the man. It’s very simple, I don’t see how a Catholic would need to hear anymore other than that.
God bless.
-Paul
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
The Catholic Church is under attack by the Obama administration. As a Catholic loyal to the Magisterium and the Holy See, I cannot support Obama’s re-election. Its that simple.
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PJD1987
Guest
It IS very simple. I do not see how other Catholic’s do not see this! Besides the obvious grave sin of voting for a pro-abortion candidate, Catholic’s who vote for Obama are voting for the destruction of their own faith!!!
Catholics voting for Obama are like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders.
God bless.
-Paul
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followyourbliss
Guest
Polling numbers released Friday by CNN about the White House contraception dust-up illustrate this: Only 11% of Catholics polled said they should always obey official church teachings on moral issues like birth control and abortion.
To put this differently, 88% of Catholics in the poll said that it’s OK for Catholics to make up their own minds about these moral issues. That represents a growing trend. In 1992 only 70% supported the “make up their own minds” argument. In 1999 it was 80%.
Today’s Catholics are picky and even suspicious about political signals from the institutional church.
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gilliam
Guest
The 2008 race spent a total of more than $1 billion, up from $717.9 million in 2004 and $343.1 million in 2000. Let’s say they spend $2 billion this year (I doubt they will, but I’ll estimate high.) The national debt is currently about $16 Trillion (about $51K per citizen or $140K per taxpayer.) So what they spend on the presidential election will pay for approximately 0.01% of the national debt.
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followyourbliss
Guest
From a new CNN religion blog (written by a Catholic scholar):
"Polling numbers released Friday by CNN about the White House contraception dust-up illustrate this: Only 11% of Catholics polled said they should always obey official church teachings on moral issues like birth control and abortion.
To put this differently, 88% of Catholics in the poll said that it’s OK for Catholics to make up their own minds about these moral issues. That represents a growing trend. In 1992 only 70% supported the “make up their own minds” argument. In 1999 it was 80%.
Today’s Catholics are picky and even suspicious about political signals from the institutional church."
"Polling numbers released Friday by CNN about the White House contraception dust-up illustrate this: Only 11% of Catholics polled said they should always obey official church teachings on moral issues like birth control and abortion.
To put this differently, 88% of Catholics in the poll said that it’s OK for Catholics to make up their own minds about these moral issues. That represents a growing trend. In 1992 only 70% supported the “make up their own minds” argument. In 1999 it was 80%.
Today’s Catholics are picky and even suspicious about political signals from the institutional church."
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LisaA
Guest
haha loved the last line and you could be right at that! He does always have his hand out so he’s clearly a politician!You did bring up my point that they are both very economic type wonks but quite honestly foreign policy experience is pretty minimal when you are choosing from a group that includes congress or fellow governors. So there probably was not another potential choice that could bring any foreign policy chops to the party.
Apparently this is the first time in 70 years when neither party’s ticket has anyone with military experience either. As you said, it can be OTJ training when a crisis hits.
Lisa
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PJD1987
Guest
Ok? And what does that prove? Nothing. Objective morality and Truth is not a majority opinion poll. Also, the 1st Amendment is not a majority opinion poll.
It doesn’t matter if I were the only Catholic in the whole world who wanted to actually follow my faith the way it is meant to be followed. If I choose to do that, it is my right to do that.
Quote all the polls you want. They mean nothing when it comes to this issue.
Persecution is not justified by public opinion polls.
God bless.
-Paul
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followyourbliss
Guest
Lisa A:
Obama’s been managing two wars, killed Osama Bin Laden and has a national security policy that makes Bush look like a liberal. I don’t think he needs on the job training–he’s passed the audition.
Obama’s been managing two wars, killed Osama Bin Laden and has a national security policy that makes Bush look like a liberal. I don’t think he needs on the job training–he’s passed the audition.
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PJD1987
Guest
And allowing the Muslim Brotherhood to gain control in Egypt. Allow 20+ thousand civilians die in Syria. Given mixed messages to the Arab world about our stance on Israel, emboldening them to continue their hateful rhetoric and threats of annihilation. Allow Russia to lose respect for the United States and continue their march towards a post-USSR Russian dictatorship run by Putin, who has absolutely no respect for Mr. Obama whatsoever.
Oh yeah, and he’s been endorsed by Hugo Chavez!!! HUGO CHAVEZ!!!
God bless.
-Paul
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followyourbliss
Guest
Of course you and everyone else can vote as they wish–ain’t democracy grand? I was just pointing to the poll as an indication that Catholics don’t vote as a block. And many Catholics are legitimately concerned about the moral implications of the Ryan budget as well as the fact that Romney’s wealth (seed money for Bain) came from Salvadorans linked directly to those who assassinated Archbishop Oscar Romero while he was giving communion. I have a problem with that. Maybe you don’t.
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LisaA
Guest
Well it certainly is interesting to be lectured by a Protestant on what we should believe
You like many have completely misinterpreted the outrage regarding the HHS Mandate. The issue is not whether the Church can compel its members to avoid ABC but that the goverment cannot compel the Church to PROVIDE services that are contrary to our faith.
How many Catholics use or don’t use birth control is not particularly relevant. What is relevant is the attack on the first amendment. This is NOT the Obama regime’s first foray into telling the Church what it can or cannot do. Certain charitable programs have ended because the Obama administration insisted the Church provide abortion services and birth control. It is very clear that the Obama administration believes that the only freedom we have as Catholics is to decide on the music and liturgy during Mass. They have completely mistaken"freedom of religion" for “freedom of worship.” Apparently you have some difficulty in distinguishing the two as well.
Lisa
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gilliam
Guest
60 minute interview is here:
realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/12/mitt_romney_and_paul_ryan_give_first_interview_on_60_minutes.html
My reaction: boy those 60 minute hosts are sure getting old!
realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/12/mitt_romney_and_paul_ryan_give_first_interview_on_60_minutes.html
My reaction: boy those 60 minute hosts are sure getting old!
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PJD1987
Guest
I’d use “legitimately” very loosely. I’m not going to dignify ruthless unsubstantiated smear campaigns and misrepresentations, character assassinations and outright hatred of Mr. Romney by his political enemies that wish to fear people out of voting for him (which sadly, seem to be working with you). The track record for truthfulness by those who dislike Mr. Romney is pretty close to 0%.
As far as economics vs. pro-life goes, its a false dilemma, and another smear campaign and misreading of the social justice Teachings of the Catholic Church. The Ryan Budget does nothing but try to refocus help of the poor on outcomes rather than (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s a philosophical difference and it is very sad that many Catholics and others of faith believe that our charity and care for the poor is only measured in how many dollars we give to them with no strings attached. That hasn’t worked for the past half century, and it is bankrupting the country. There are more constructive ways to help the poor than giving out free money to programs that have little to no effectiveness. That’s what the Ryan Budget is about. Pretty simple.
The Church has been VERY clear about economics v pro-life issues. The Church has made it very, very, very, very clear that faithful Catholics must place pro-life issues first when voting, and nothing else is even a close second. What are the good of rights, if babies are denied the right to LIFE to begin with? Again, the Church has been consistent and clear on this, and if a Catholic votes for a pro-abortion, anti-life, propagator of the culture of death, they are committing a mortal sin and must go to Confession.
As The Venerable Fulton Sheen once brilliantly put it, “Sometimes we hide our want of individual justice with a great love for social justice.”
God bless.
-Paul
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followyourbliss
Guest
I agree Obama mishandled that situation, but I don’t agree that this a first amendment issue. The Church owns huge numbers of hospitals and other health care facilities. (In many instances, the Church has acted to limit contraception and abortion services by purchasing doctors; offices and forbidding doctors from providing those services, even in instances of rape or incest or danger to the mother.) The employees of those hospitals are Catholic and non-Catholics. Should non-Catholic workers be denied access to healthcare under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? I don’t think so, though I think the Obama administration could have worked out a compromise so the Church was paying for it.Well it certainly is interesting to be lectured by a Protestant on what we should believe
You like many have completely misinterpreted the outrage regarding the HHS Mandate. The issue is not whether the Church can compel its members to avoid ABC but that the goverment cannot compel the Church to PROVIDE services that are contrary to our faith.
How many Catholics use or don’t use birth control is not particularly relevant. What is relevant is the attack on the first amendment. This is NOT the Obama regime’s first foray into telling the Church what it can or cannot do. Certain charitable programs have ended because the Obama administration insisted the Church provide abortion services and birth control. It is very clear that the Obama administration believes that the only freedom we have as Catholics is to decide on the music and liturgy during Mass. They have completely mistaken"freedom of religion" for “freedom of worship.” Apparently you have some difficulty in distinguishing the two as well.
Lisa
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PJD1987
Guest
Abortion and contraception is not healthcare. Pregnancy is not a disease. And contraception costs $8 a month at target.
God bless.
-Paul
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DoGodsBidding
Guest
I am with you. I do not understand how anyone of faith could vote for the most pro-abortion President in the history of this country. I also do not understand how anyone could vote for the worst President of my lifetime. We have record debts, one third of this country is on welfare, he has no budget and no job plan, and that is his record on helping poor people. People want jobs!
DGB
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LisaA
Guest
Oh my goodness, you really need to do some research. In what way are employees DENIED contraception because their employer does not provide it free? You have once again completely mistaken the issue but when you use Democrat talking points in the place of facts that happens. Oh and you are in good company as my own Senator railed long and loud about “a few religious fanatics preventing women from receiving necessary health care!” It’s utterly ridiculous. If you have followed the Sandra Fluke Flap, you would know that birth control is easily and cheaply (if not free) available through many commercial or social services outlets.
You are a Protestant apparently and also apparently are not conversant with the teachings of the Church. I work at a Catholic Hospital. We do not provide abortions or sterilizations at this hospital because to do so would make us complicit in a grave sin. If someone wants an abortion, they have to go somewhere else although believe me we would love to convince them to choose life for their baby.
BTW could we get back to the thread? There are many many threads on the subject of the HHS Mandate and Obama’s war on religion, most specifically the Catholic church.
Lisa
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