Paul Ryan!!

[pete_29]

You have to be a Swiss citizen to take advantage of it.

 

[_Abyssinia]

And Catholics on this forum claiming that the Democratic Party platform’s social programs are based on traditional Catholic social teaching is false. Such Catholics either have been inadequately catechized, or have failed to inform themselves of the full scope of Democratic social programs, and how those affect the poor.

The Democratic Party is not a synonym for Catholic social justice. It is far from that, by any true Catholic’s full understanding of our religion’s social teaching: Aquinas, any bishop, any Pope, any Catholic politician, any member of a religious order (Sisters included), any Catholic layperson. To rationalize a vote for Democratic Party positions as being more “in line with Catholic social justice” is just that: a rationalization. There is no substantiation for the claim.

Some Catholics need to recognize that

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I never said the Bush tax cuts should be eliminated now for someone not rich as yourself, Annabelle Marie. I firmly believe they should have been eliminated though long before now for those President Obama and the Democrats previously spoke of eliminating them for. I believe it was beginning at the quarter of a million dollars mark. But in any case it is the tax cuts for the wealthiest who can most afford an increase who I advocate increasing rates on.

I’m not at all completely satisfied with “Obamacare” myself but I believe it is better than the status quo. Annabelle Marie, it may be a joke to you but it is no joke to people with pre existing conditions who can not get health care insurance, or can not afford their premiums, co pays or deductibles. Or who do not have coverage thru their employer. Or who do not qualify for Medicare or Medicaid. It is no joke to the parents and their children who can remain on their parents’ health care insurance longer for some of the same rasons I already mentioned.

As far as Romney - Ryan being “pro life” we clearly have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes pro-life. In any case God bless along your faith journey and peace.

The question is, are you willing to move back to Clinton era spending levels?

 

[CMatt25]

You base your worship of a God who died a hideous death on the Cross for my sins and yours on a message board? Is this a joke? If yes, I am sorry that I misunderstood you.

If the message board is representative. I will always however worship God who died on the Cross for my sins and yours.

 

[_Abyssinia]

You’re repeating a lie that every reputable news organization has already debunked. In granting state waivers, the Obama administration did not eliminate the work requirement:

“HHS is encouraging states to consider new, more effective ways to meet the goals of TANF, particularly helping parents successfully prepare for, find, and retain employment. Therefore, HHS is issuing this information memorandum to notify states of the Secretary’s willingness to exercise her waiver authority under section 1115 of the Social Security Act to allow states to test alternative and innovative strategies, policies, and procedures that are designed to improve employment outcomes for needy families.”

acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/policy/im-ofa/2012/im201203/im201203.html

Here is a story from Romney’s home town newspaper that includes the FACTS:
boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/08/07/romney-accuses-obama-waiving-welfare-work-requirements/aCx5F3hPGNdjYxTeRlcq7M/story.html

But there is no doubt that Romney is strongly in favor of work requirements in welfare. Heartlessly so…

"But Romney was a clear advocate of welfare work mandates in 2005 and was criticized by Massachusetts Democrats for being so stringent.

At the time, Massachusetts was already operating under a federal waiver that made its welfare work requirements among the weakest in the nation. In July 2005, Romney filed a bill that would have more than doubled the number of state welfare recipients required to work. His plan would have increased the number of hours welfare recipients were required to work and capped benefits at five years.

“I’m convinced this … allows people to have the dignity and the opportunity for themselves and their children to recognize the importance of work in their lives,” Romney said at a press conference, announcing his plan.

Particularly controversial was Romney’s proposal to eliminate work exemptions for pregnant women in the third trimester, mothers with children between 1 and 2 years old and about 5,600 people who met state disability standards but not federal ones.

Even welfare recipients caring for disabled relatives and teenagers in school would have had some work requirements.

State lawmakers overwhelmingly rejected Romney’s plan."

Thank God for Massachusetts - the most Catholic state in the Union!

Why are welfare requirements Catholic?

Church has been critical of the modern welfare state but says government has a role in providing a ‘safety net.’ In 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus Blessed Pope John Paul II says

[D]efects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good. By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending

Romney saying Obama is taking work out of welfare and ad from Romney on Obama’s on welfare is not misleading. Clinton who spoke against the ad is speaking at the DNC convention, he has an interest in defending Obama, he vetoed welfare twice before signing, he is not non partisan. Washington Post gave 4 pinnochios, they are biased, they have been against welfare reform and opposed Clinton when he signed it into law. PolitiFact quotes ‘left leaning Centre of Budget and Policy Priorities’ and they say, ‘the center supports the plan.’ Biased.

The bill Clinton signed specifically said you have to be employed in a job to collect welfare, and it specifically says you can not change or expand the definition of work beyond what is in the bill. Obama, likely illegally, expanded this to mean job education, training, apprenticeships, all sorts. Clinton welfare reform took power back from the states and Obama said you may consider work if it is training, going back to school etc. Specifically lists what the states may do. Obama’s changes empower states to do a list of specific activities that replace work which guts the key part of the welfare bill, it changes the welfare bill. Obama’s changes may be repealed in court

 

[Ecoclimber]

1999 President Clinton, “If we maintain our fiscal discipline, using the surplus to pay down the debt and using the savings to strengthen Social Security, America will entirely pay off the national debt by 2015,” Clinton told reporters on the White House lawn. Clinton said the budget surplus for fiscal year 1999 would be a higher-than-expected $99 billion, compared to an earlier projection of $79 billion.

Budget surpluses have surpassed most projections recently as the booming U.S. economy, now in its ninth year of expansion, and big stock market gains have filled government coffers with soaring revenues.

President Clinton announced Wednesday that the federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 amounted to at least $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history and topping last year’s record surplus of $122.7 billion."**This represents the largest one-year debt reduction in the history of the United States," **Clinton said Wednesday morning.

8 years later of GOP unwinnable wars, tax cuts, deregulation of the financial, banking and commodity markets, outsourcing, patriotic act and dometic spying, corporate socialism, trickle down economics to the Cayman islands led to the largest financial meltdown since the great depression. Then add on top of that, the GOP obstructionist movement in Congress over the last 4 years and you have a perfect storm.

Oh, and a little thing that escapes everyones notice
With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush’s presidency. It’s the biggest increase under any president in U.S history.
**
But the government is taking no chances. Buried deep in the hundred pages of bailout legislation is a provision that would raise the statutory ceiling on the national debt to $11.315 trillion. It’ll be the 7th time the debt limit has been raised during this administration.** In fact it was just two months ago, on July 30, that President Bush signed the Housing and Economic Recovery Act, which contained a provision raising the debt ceiling to $10.615 trillion. :banghead:
**
cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4486228-500803.html**

And you so everyone wants ‘Gordon Geckko’ Romney who made $230+ million with his Bain ‘Vulture’ Capital firm by chopping up companies and outsourcing American jobs to
Communist Red China along with his GOP party of ‘NO’ to be elected to grease the wheels for more corporate socialism?

I’m sick to my stomach’: anger grows in Illinois at Bain’s latest outsourcing plan
The Sensata plant in Freeport is profitable and competitive, but its majority owner, Bain Capital, has decided to ship jobs to China – and forced workers to train their overseas replacements
guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/10/illinois-workers-bain-outsourcing

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I am a Catholic/Christian and an American.

 

[estesbob]

1999 President Clinton, “If we maintain our fiscal discipline, using the surplus to pay down the debt and using the savings to strengthen Social Security, America will entirely pay off the national debt by 2015,” Clinton told reporters on the White House lawn. Clinton said the budget surplus for fiscal year 1999 would be a higher-than-expected $99 billion, compared to an earlier projection of $79 billion.

Budget surpluses have surpassed most projections recently as the booming U.S. economy, now in its ninth year of expansion, and big stock market gains have filled government coffers with soaring revenues.

President Clinton announced Wednesday that the federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 amounted to at least $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history and topping last year’s record surplus of $122.7 billion."**This represents the largest one-year debt reduction in the history of the United States," **Clinton said Wednesday morning.

8 years later of GOP unwinnable wars, tax cuts, deregulation of the financial, banking and commodity markets, outsourcing, patriotic act and dometic spying, corporate socialism, trickle down economics to the Cayman islands led to the largest financial meltdown since the great depression. Then add on top of that, the GOP obstructionist movement in Congress over the last 4 years and you have a perfect storm.

Oh, and a little thing that escapes everyones notice
With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush’s presidency. It’s the biggest increase under any president in U.S history.
**
But the government is taking no chances. Buried deep in the hundred pages of bailout legislation is a provision that would raise the statutory ceiling on the national debt to $11.315 trillion. It’ll be the 7th time the debt limit has been raised during this administration.** In fact it was just two months ago, on July 30, that President Bush signed the Housing and Economic Recovery Act, which contained a provision raising the debt ceiling to $10.615 trillion.
**
cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4486228-500803.html**

And you so everyone wants ‘Gordon Geckko’ Romney who made $230+ million with his Bain ‘Vulture’ Capital firm by chopping up companies and outsourcing American jobs to
Communist Red China along with his GOP party of ‘NO’ to be elected to grease the wheels for more corporate socialism?

I’m sick to my stomach’: anger grows in Illinois at Bain’s latest outsourcing plan
The Sensata plant in Freeport is profitable and competitive, but its majority owner, Bain Capital, has decided to ship jobs to China – and forced workers to train their overseas replacements
guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/10/illinois-workers-bain-outsourcing

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I am a Catholic/Christian and an American.

The national debt increased every year under Clinton. He never ran a surplus unless one incased SS receipts which, of course, are supposed to be used to fund SS for the present and future.

 

[Ecoclimber]

If the message board is representative. I will always however worship God who died on the Cross for my sins and yours.

I hear you CMatt25. It is alarming.

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush’s presidency. It’s the biggest increase under any president in U.S history.

Until Obama. Who had the debt grow more in 3.5 years than Bush did in eight. Not defending Bush’s increase, but facts are facts.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.

I like, where’d you get it?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Until Obama. Who had the debt grow more in 3.5 years than Bush did in eight. Not defending Bush’s increase, but facts are facts.

Ummm, under Obama, the debt has grown more in 3.5 years than under George Washington through George Bush.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Ummm, under Obama, the debt has grown more in 3.5 years than under George Washington through George Bush.

I was comparing the two presidents, but you are correct, of course.

 

[estesbob]

I hear you CMatt25. It is alarming.

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.

Very alarming the number of people whose Faith is formed by their politics. They get extremely upset when people on this board and elsewhere point out to them that the faith they have created is incompatible with the teachings of the One True Church.

Lets be clear

-one does not fulfill their obligation to help the poor and needy by voting for someone who promises to take someone else’s money and do it for them.-

If the Spirit tells you raising taxes on the “rich” is more important than abortion then its not the Holy spirit talking to you

• There is NOTHING a person who supports unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand can do to mitigate their support of that evil to the the extent a Catholic could vote for them

-The One True Church neither endorses or opposes either party’s approach to solving the problems facing this country.

_The one true Church has no position on the proper level of taxation or minimum wage

-The One true Church recognizes a Countrys right to secure tis borders.

 

[bellasbane]

And Catholics on this forum claiming that the Democratic Party platform’s social programs are based on traditional Catholic social teaching is false. Such Catholics either have been inadequately catechized, or have failed to inform themselves of the full scope of Democratic social programs, and how those affect the poor.

The Democratic Party is not a synonym for Catholic social justice. It is far from that, by any true Catholic’s full understanding of our religion’s social teaching: Aquinas, any bishop, any Pope, any Catholic politician, any member of a religious order (Sisters included), any Catholic layperson. To rationalize a vote for Democratic Party positions as being more “in line with Catholic social justice” is just that: a rationalization. There is no substantiation for the claim.

Who said anything about the Democrats?

This thread isn’t about Catholic Joe Biden - it’s about Catholic Paul Ryan. If you want to start a rant against Catholic Joe Biden - go ahead. I’d love to hear what you have to say.

In the meantime, inadequately catechized Catholics are as much a problem on the right as are on the left. Case in point, what do you mean by “any true Catholic’s full understanding of our religion’s social teaching?” Seems like you might need to review your lessons on the Sacraments of Initiation - a full understanding has never been a requirement of being a “true Catholic”. If it were, there wouldn’t be very many of us!

The United States is not a Catholic nation. It is a liberal democracy founded by a group of Protestant men who believed in individual political and economic rights. These are not traditional Catholic values and the men who founded this nation did not like Catholics. It has only been in the last half century that Catholics have been accepted into the mainstream of American politics. Remember all the trouble Kennedy had when he ran for office?

The problem with BOTH parties is that they are both products of these liberal democratic values rather than being products of Catholic tradition. For that reason neither party reflects Catholic political, social or economic thought. The Christian Democratic parties of Europe and Latin America come much closer.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_democratic

 

[Ecoclimber]

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I am a Catholic and an American.

I like, where’d you get it?

Opps. I didn’t mean to infringe on your tag. I didn’t want people to know that I based my claims on any one party’s ideology. I am an Independent voter. I’ll change mine.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Very alarming the number of people whose Faith is formed by their politics. They get extremely upset when people on this board and elsewhere point out to them that the faith they have created is incompatible with the teachings of the One True Church.

Lets be clear

-one does not fulfill their obligation to help the poor and needy by voting for someone who promises to take someone else’s money and do it for them.-

If the Spirit tells you raising taxes on the “rich” is more important than abortion then its not the Holy spirit talking to you

• There is NOTHING a person who supports unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand can do to mitigate their support of that evil to the the extent a Catholic could vote for them

-The One True Church neither endorses or opposes either party’s approach to solving the problems facing this country.

_The one true Church has no position on the proper level of taxation or minimum wage

-The One true Church recognizes a Countrys right to secure tis borders.

 

[bellasbane]

Opps. I didn’t mean to infringe on your tag. I didn’t want people to know that I based my claims on any one party’s ideology. I am an Independent voter. I’ll change mine.

Don’t change it!

 

[Ecoclimber]

Who said anything about the Democrats?

This thread isn’t about Catholic Joe Biden - it’s about Catholic Paul Ryan. If you want to start a rant against Catholic Joe Biden - go ahead. I’d love to hear what you have to say.

In the meantime, inadequately catechized Catholics are as much a problem on the right as are on the left. Case in point, what do you mean by “any true Catholic’s full understanding of our religion’s social teaching?” Seems like you might need to review your lessons on the Sacraments of Initiation - a full understanding has never been a requirement of being a “true Catholic”. If it were, there wouldn’t be very many of us!

The United States is not a Catholic nation. It is a liberal democracy founded by a group of Protestant men who believed in individual political and economic rights. These are not traditional Catholic values and the men who founded this nation did not like Catholics. It has only been in the last half century that Catholics have been accepted into the mainstream of American politics. Remember all the trouble Kennedy had when he ran for office?

The problem with BOTH parties is that they are both products of these liberal democratic values rather than being products of Catholic tradition. For that reason neither party reflects Catholic political, social or economic thought. The Christian Democratic parties of Europe and Latin America come much closer.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_democratic

Finally, someone who ‘gets’ it. How refreshing

@ estesbob

I am an independent voter. Unbeknownst to many, there are a few of us around. I am Catholic/Christian.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Opps. I didn’t mean to infringe on your tag. I didn’t want people to know that I based my claims on any one party’s ideology. I am an Independent voter. I’ll change mine.

Feel free to use might, I created it but its not copyrighted. Public domain, feel free.

 

[SamH]

and you assume they don’t. Wild huh? Honestly, do you know anyone on assistance? Not attacking, genuinely curious!

I have two children living in my home that are on assistance.