Payment for the remission of sin?

[DPMartin]

well,I think it was there to symbolize the privilege God had for himself, and when Adam sinned, layed his hand on the tree,he layed his hand on God’s privilege and made himself arbiter of what is good and what is evil , he usurped the divine privilege. I suppose it is where free will about deciding for himself’/ourself and what is good and what is evil comes in and acting to that accord, But really DP I’m not sure if I have given you a correct explanation, I’m sure there is some out there who can explain it all more clearly than I :shrugeace, Carlan

Carlan

thanks for the reply

I believe you are onto it, in your ref. To Adam and Eve agreeing by eating the fruit if the tree, that they were to know what is good and evil for themselves. Consider didn’t God say what was good and not good for Adam and then provided.

Gen:2:18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Though I wouldn’t say God’s privilege, but God’s Place with mankind that no one else has the Right to.

Hence the only Begotten Son of the Father taking His Place in the world (human existance) in the Son of man.

 

[DPMartin]

It is not any religious activity that pleases
God. Remember the Sadducees and the Pharisess. How Jesus said they were clean on the outside, but full of filth on the inside. Faith is both how we are on the outside and where our hearts are. People can act on the outside but have hearts that are far away from Faith, likewise people can have hearts full of faith but on the outside are far away from the faith.
Since Jesus shed His blood, we as faithful people to the Lord, no longer have to sacrifice unblemished animals of a certain type for the remission of sin. Apologies have to come out of the heart, not be superficial actions or spoken words. Then us people are to repent, which is non-scarring physical, emotional or financial pain, which will force us to remember not to commit sin.
So in answer to your question, religious activity has nothing to do with the remission of sin. Recall that there is a statement made by Jesus where He states that they claim they have done all sorts of good deeds-healing the sick, casting out demons, etc. and Jesus responds with Be gone from me, I never knew you.

No, no way. Not the steelers. It is the Green Bay Packers! Go, Pack, Go. Good thing we won’t be related until I see you in Heaven.

Mary Christ

thanks for the reply

Very good point, so why is there no other way that God the Father Chose, to restore man to Him?

---

Off Subject: Hey Hey there on that Go Pack Go stuff.

---

 

[Mary_Christ]

yes Mary, however, what do you say about growth in holiness and purification…what the Church teaches about temporal punishment?
Peace, Carlan

Temporal punishment is an absolute necessity to bring about such growth. Seldom will people repent long or far enough to bring about the greatest growth in these areas. Usually a person only repents long enough to alleviate their personal guilt and to appease the victim of the sin, seldom does a person repent just to grow greater in faith and love of Jesus and His perfect ways, which brings about greater holiness along with purification.

Temporal punishment can be avoided by voluntarily repenting. Temporal punishment will be swift and painful when it comes directly from Jesus. When repenting is not enough to turn the heart back to Him, such punishment is also necessary.
Holiness and purity of people are often in vacillation, which is why Church services is necessary. Temporal punishment and repenting are washing the soul, actually bleaching the soul, through painful events. Jesus will decide what temporal punishment to use and when on an individual or on a community to cleanse it. What is a punishment to one may not be to another. Such things must come or no one would be acceptable for eternal life with Jesus.

To make and keep oneself pure, as well as holy, constant conscience thought and actions about Jesus is necessary-which is then followed by the emotions stemming from the heart, pouring forth love and faith for Jesus.

 

[Mary_Christ]

Mary Christ

thanks for the reply

Very good point, so why is there no other way that God the Father Chose, to restore man to Him?

---

Off Subject: Hey Hey there on that Go Pack Go stuff.

Actually it was not God who made the choice to have the Son persecuted to restore us to Him. It was man who made that choice. Originally it was repentance along with an unblemished lamb to appease God of His wrath against the person’s heart for sin.
However, there were some men who used blemished lambs for their sacrifice. Despite God’s warnings, they not only continued to use blemished lambs, but some started to sacrifice infants and young children.

As God looked down on this behavior and flooded the world, He realized that since man has already decided that human sacrifices were sufficient to be forgiven of sin, and since these people really believed these were their children-He thought HHHMMM, if I have a Son who is perfect in my ways, not only will people believe He is my Son, but they will also believe in His sacrifice. God Himself decided not to be the sacrifice, although I am sure that He wished it could be Himself to spare His Son,
Mainly because people did not kill themselves as the sacrifice, nor did they kill other adults for the sacrifice, but their children. This is why Jesus did not start His ministry till He was 30, as He was only three years old in the preaching and teaching of the faith, therefore, He was indeed as a child on the cross. To prevent children from being used as the sacrifice for sin, Jesus was and is and will always be the last human sacrifice for sin for everyone. Another reason why the cross was used is because it is a really gross way to die.-so there is no one who will sacrifice another person the way Jesus was sacrificed. If Jesus was stoned to death instead, there would be those who would still use people for sacrifice by stoning them. Then, of course, by law of the land anyone who blasphemies God was punishable by death on the cross.

A living sacrifice is necessary as it is the living who have the spirit that is judged, not plants. Animals also do not have spirits, but were used for sacrifice because animals smell really good when cooking, and the lamb follows the herder most diligently. When a wayward lamb continues in this path, the herder will break a leg of the lamb then nurture the lamb back to health and that lamb will not wander off again. It is as these lambs that we need to be. As with any pet, the animal will constantly seek to and walk towards its owner for its needs and wants.

Mary was not put on the cross to restore man to God because women were not put on the cross, they were usually put to death by stoning.

So why not a burning pit? Because people really smell bad when they burn. Burning people are really not a savory smell unto God.

OK-GO JESUS GO

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[PJM]

=DPMartin;7518599]Since God is Almighty, and can do as He pleases. And can take from, and give to, as He sees fit, of which there is nothing that can stop Him from doing so. Why did He require payment for the remission of sin, in order to be in His Presence?

Divine Justice!

It is “foolish to think that anyone may [can;will] participate in Christ Glory without ALSO participating in Christ suffering!”

**SUFFERING **

**Phil.1: 29 **“For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. **Luke.9: 23 **And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Luke.14: 7 ****Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” **

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

**2Thes.1: 5 “**This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering “

Matt.1917 "And he [Jesus] said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

Any other position denies the FACT that God made us so that we could [should] freely choose to know,Love, and Serve Him. Part of this service involves our daily Crosses.

Such is the Mind, heart and Divine Will of God!

God Bless,
Pat

 

[DPMartin]

Divine Justice!

It is “foolish to think that anyone may [can;will] participate in Christ Glory without ALSO participating in Christ suffering!”

**SUFFERING **

**Phil.1: 29 **“For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. **Luke.9: 23 **And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Luke.14: 7 ****Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” **

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

**2Thes.1: 5 “**This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering “

Matt.1917 "And he [Jesus] said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

Any other position denies the FACT that God made us so that we could [should] freely choose to know,Love, and Serve Him. Part of this service involves our daily Crosses.

Such is the Mind, heart and Divine Will of God!

God Bless,
Pat

Pat

thanks for the reply

Yes but just what is it that is to be suffered, should it be something like long-suffering, or not judging and condemning the world around you? Not expecting others to be like you or think like you, feel like you, or do like you?

 

[DPMartin]

Actually it was not God who made the choice to have the Son persecuted to restore us to Him. It was man who made that choice. Originally it was repentance along with an unblemished lamb to appease God of His wrath against the person’s heart for sin.
However, there were some men who used blemished lambs for their sacrifice. Despite God’s warnings, they not only continued to use blemished lambs, but some started to sacrifice infants and young children.

As God looked down on this behavior and flooded the world, He realized that since man has already decided that human sacrifices were sufficient to be forgiven of sin, and since these people really believed these were their children-He thought HHHMMM, if I have a Son who is perfect in my ways, not only will people believe He is my Son, but they will also believe in His sacrifice. God Himself decided not to be the sacrifice, although I am sure that He wished it could be Himself to spare His Son,
Mainly because people did not kill themselves as the sacrifice, nor did they kill other adults for the sacrifice, but their children. This is why Jesus did not start His ministry till He was 30, as He was only three years old in the preaching and teaching of the faith, therefore, He was indeed as a child on the cross. To prevent children from being used as the sacrifice for sin, Jesus was and is and will always be the last human sacrifice for sin for everyone. Another reason why the cross was used is because it is a really gross way to die.-so there is no one who will sacrifice another person the way Jesus was sacrificed. If Jesus was stoned to death instead, there would be those who would still use people for sacrifice by stoning them. Then, of course, by law of the land anyone who blasphemies God was punishable by death on the cross.

A living sacrifice is necessary as it is the living who have the spirit that is judged, not plants. Animals also do not have spirits, but were used for sacrifice because animals smell really good when cooking, and the lamb follows the herder most diligently. When a wayward lamb continues in this path, the herder will break a leg of the lamb then nurture the lamb back to health and that lamb will not wander off again. It is as these lambs that we need to be. As with any pet, the animal will constantly seek to and walk towards its owner for its needs and wants.

Mary was not put on the cross to restore man to God because women were not put on the cross, they were usually put to death by stoning.

So why not a burning pit? Because people really smell bad when they burn. Burning people are really not a savory smell unto God.

OK-GO JESUS GO

Mary Christ

thanks very much for your reply

but I would point you to what the Lord God said when the Lord heard Adam and Eve.

Gen:3:15: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Hence the Virgin Mary Chosen by the Lord God to do this. That was when the Word of God was set into motion (if you will) to accomplish this. Remember Abel and Cain Abel was the first human being to experience death and God heard Abel’s blood crying out from the ground to Him. Which is the life of the body. Also note from thereafter the sacrifice of lambs continued because God made it known that He had respect for Abel and his offering and God also made it known that He heard the man Abel even after Abel’s body died, by telling Cain so. This is were all of this starts as a part of mankind’s relationship with God. And has been Blessed and sustained by God all the way to the fulfillment of the promise:

Gen:3:15: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

On the Cross, the Lamb that was slain to take away the sins of the world, that causes death that Abel was the first to experience, at the hand of his brother.

---

Off Subject: just haven fun with the subject of suber bowl, enjoy the game. There is value in the observation of sports, even the Apostle Paul mentioned so. In the demonstration in the pursuit of the trophy and the fulfillment thereof. And the reality that the Lord’s Judgement is the result on the field of activities of men.

---

 

[PJM]

=DPMartin;7526152]Pat

thanks for the reply

Yes but just what is it that is to be suffered, should it be something like long-suffering, or not judging and condemning the world around you? Not expecting others to be like you or think like you, feel like you, or do like you?

Keep in mind dear friend that it is God, and God alone to desides what Crosses he gives us to bear. Certainly we can influence the matter by using our freewills to test God, to avoid God, or to disobey God.

Each and everything that happens to us; no-matter on small or how large; is a decision of God who grants only good things and permits things not good; in order to test our faith, and to permit at least the possibility of a “good” thing to come from it.

All Crosses are to be accepted with humility; and complete acceptance of the reality of there origin. With God’s help; we can bear any Cross that He chooses to give to us.

Certainly, we must take GREAT care in judging others. The less often we judge, the easier and more Mercy God will show in judging us.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by DPMartin
Wow, that was fast there PAboy57, thanks for the reply.

Anyway, how is it that any religious activity pleases God? And what does that have to do with remission of sin since mankind does not have the power to save himself from death?

Any and EVERY action and decission that conforms to the Divine Will of God, is found pleasing to Him. The opposit is also true.

That is precisely why it is CRITICAL that ALL personal decisions that relate to the topics of Christian Faith and Morals; MUST in an absolute sense conform to Catholic Church teaching. [John 14: 8-10; John 17: 15-19, and of course Matt. 16:19], all state and confirm God’s Personal mandates for this.

As to the remission of sin. The NT fulfills AND perfects OT practices where priest were used in a intecessory role for the forgiveness of sins. In the entire BIIBLE God’s determines what forms He [God] will accept.

Articulated here is therefore God’s take on the topic:

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

**1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 **"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

**John.20 Verses 20 to 23 **" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

This is the Norm as set by God Himself for the forgivness of sins. Any one not accepting it does so at the GREAT risk of there personal salvation.

Matt.5: 19 “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Matt.19: 17 "And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good***. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” ***

God Bless,
Pat

 

[ConstantineTG]

Since God is Almighty, and can do as He pleases. And can take from, and give to, as He sees fit, of which there is nothing that can stop Him from doing so. Why did He require payment for the remission of sin, in order to be in His Presence?

Its just a term when the word payment is used. The truth of the matter is we’ve sinned and to get back to be with God, we have to do what it takes to be with God. Imagine doing something wrong with your spouse. Do you think buying her a diamond ring is enough? Not really, although its a good gesture to show your sincerity. But for most people who have enough money, thats nothing. What God wants is we love Him back, and thats the payment he’s talking about. When we do something wrong we detach ourselves from God. God still loves us, but love is a bridge built from both sides. God never ceases from loving us, but we cease from loving Him. Payment is used as a term because it means we have to do something to get back with God, because love cannot love if only one side is loving. We have to love back, we have to do something.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Very good point, so why is there no other way that God the Father Chose, to restore man to Him?

He can’t restore us to Him if we do not choose that for ourselves. God has done so much, even giving His Son up for us. And yet, that is not enough because we have free will and we still have to do our part.

 

[Carlan]

Pat

thanks for the reply

Yes but just what is it that is to be suffered, should it be something like long-suffering, or not judging and condemning the world around you? Not expecting others to be like you or think like you, feel like you, or do like you?

DP,I Think the Doctrine of the Cross calls for us to be true to the divine precepts so as to grow in the holiness necessary to imitate Christ and so please the Father in order to be happy with him forever more. It was what we were created for, to love Him, and to serve Him in this life.
We are to follow Christ’s Sermon on the Mount…the Beatitudes.
Quiet a large order but with the power of sanctifying grace and God’s wonderful gift of perseverance it is done, Peace, Carlan

 

[ConstantineTG]

Anyway, how is it that any religious activity pleases God? And what does that have to do with remission of sin since mankind does not have the power to save himself from death?

Religious activites are amazing, they have deep pyschological impact long before psychology was even learned as a science. Sometimes we think doing things as ritual is petty. But ritual trains our body which then trains our mind into tuning into what is of God. To most they just see the external, the outward expression. They think this is not necessary. That may be true in some cases when someone “gets it”. But not everyone does, doing the external eventually puts us in a state of mind that internally, we “get it”.

Example, abstinence. Some will ask, what does giving up meat have to do with anything? Well, most of our sins are sins of habit. Learning to give up something as trivial and ordinary as eating meat trains our minds to be mindful of trivial and ordinary things so that we can recognize that they may lead us to occassion of sin. And if we can give something as ordinary as meat, we will have the strength to give up something thats trivial and ordinary that leads us to sin. Amazing isn’t it?

 

[DPMartin]

Keep in mind dear friend that it is God, and God alone to desides what Crosses he gives us to bear. Certainly we can influence the matter by using our freewills to test God, to avoid God, or to disobey God.

Each and everything that happens to us; no-matter on small or how large; is a decision of God who grants only good things and permits things not good; in order to test our faith, and to permit at least the possibility of a “good” thing to come from it.

All Crosses are to be accepted with humility; and complete acceptance of the reality of there origin. With God’s help; we can bear any Cross that He chooses to give to us.

Certainly, we must take GREAT care in judging others. The less often we judge, the easier and more Mercy God will show in judging us.

Love and prayers,
Pat

Pat
thanks for the reply

You know, we all deserve separation from the Presence of God. Therefore no one but God is the Judge of that, and Jesus came to deliver us from that evil, the Separation from the Lord our God our Creator. God’s Judgement at the Cross was to Deliver, Redeem, Restore mankind into His Presence.

Therefore in who’s judgement is a cross bore? In the book of Judges the Lord rase judges to deliver from misery, and punishment for not following the Lord their God their Creator.

 

[josethekke]

Payment for the remission of sin?

The payment for the remission of sin was done with the cross. What was happening in this wicked world before Jesus was the human sacrifice of children and babies into a burning pit. God, Jesus’s Father, would first get on the case of sinners using spotted animals for sacrifice for the remission of their sins. This was not an acceptable sacrifice. So then out of hate and spite, some would, instead of the spotted animals, would use children and babies. UNTIL JESUS CAME.

Rememer that the world flooded once, which helped to cleanse the earth of many evil-doers. There were less than a couple of handfuls of adults on the Ark, along with all those animals. It is my spiritual theory that the AIDS virus is also being used to cleanse the world of wicked ones. The difference-those with this virus have plenty of years to get the faith, unlike drowning which is only 10 minutes.
Mary

Do you think AIDS is punishment of god for human sin

 

[DPMartin]

Any and EVERY action and decission that conforms to the Divine Will of God, is found pleasing to Him. The opposit is also true.

That is precisely why it is CRITICAL that ALL personal decisions that relate to the topics of Christian Faith and Morals; MUST in an absolute sense conform to Catholic Church teaching. [John 14: 8-10; John 17: 15-19, and of course Matt. 16:19], all state and confirm God’s Personal mandates for this.

As to the remission of sin. The NT fulfills AND perfects OT practices where priest were used in a intecessory role for the forgiveness of sins. In the entire BIIBLE God’s determines what forms He [God] will accept.

Articulated here is therefore God’s take on the topic:

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

**1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 **"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

**John.20 Verses 20 to 23 **" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

This is the Norm as set by God Himself for the forgivness of sins. Any one not accepting it does so at the GREAT risk of there personal salvation.

Matt.5: 19 “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Matt.19: 17 "And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good***. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” ***

God Bless,
Pat

Pat

thanks for the reply

There are those who God gives in His Spirit to be healers which would be God’s Judgement considering such would happen by His Power. And then there are those who think that because they are who they are, others should heel to them like dogs who walk behind their masters.
Come to Jesus and let the Lord be your guide, for He is the One and only Master. I honestly don’t believe discipleship is supposed to be copies of copies of copies when one can know the Lord their God intimately.

Sorry I don’t think a Catholic priest has to intercede for my sins when what Jesus has done on the Cross is sufficient. “It is done”. And to declare the authority therein when the Pope who was a theologian of passed and is a scholar of scripture kneels in public streets before lifeless statues, images made by the hands of man and prays to it. Thus teaching others to do the same by example. No need to show scripture upon scripture upon scripture upon scripture plus commandment, were that is not kosher with the Lord our God. There is no excuse nor explanation nor reason, that would be right, or correct. This not to accuse my friend, it’s just the facts, that are demonstrated publically.

Hence the Catholic Priesthood is certainly no authority between me and my God who Lives Forever, Speaks and is Present. I don’t need and intercessory between me and that which has no life therein. Intercessory pray is in the Presence of the Living God, that He would have Mercy and Grace on the children of men.

**Jer:23:23: Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? **

Catholic Priests might reach out to lifeless statues and be authorities therein by there own demonstrations thereof. Which is their choice. But I do believe it is God’s Choice that we are to reach out to Him, the Living God who says He is at hand. You know, repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Not some far away place, and out of reach.

Can you say that the Apostles prayed Intercessory prayer, you bet ya they did, but they walk with and in the Presence of the Living God, and had no need for statues, nor would do such a thing.

Therefore how can it be that those who pray before statues be sent by the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[DPMartin]

Its just a term when the word payment is used. The truth of the matter is we’ve sinned and to get back to be with God, we have to do what it takes to be with God. Imagine doing something wrong with your spouse. Do you think buying her a diamond ring is enough? Not really, although its a good gesture to show your sincerity. But for most people who have enough money, thats nothing. What God wants is we love Him back, and thats the payment he’s talking about. When we do something wrong we detach ourselves from God. God still loves us, but love is a bridge built from both sides. God never ceases from loving us, but we cease from loving Him. Payment is used as a term because it means we have to do something to get back with God, because love cannot love if only one side is loving. We have to love back, we have to do something.

ConstantineTG

thanks for the reply

I can see your point in that loving Him as a payback, so to speak, but one doesn’t know Love unless he is loved. One doesn’t know Trust unless he is trusted in what is truly to be trusted. And one knows not exception fulfilled unless the expectations in him is fulfilled that is upright that holds him upright.

Hence we don’t know God’s Love unless He has showed us His Love for us first. No doubt He did in the promise and fulfillment of the promise in Jesus Christ. There’s no way to pay that back.

God’s Love for us, is what we have that He did give us. And He did restore us to be in His Love to be loved and in love forever as it was with Him in Adam and Eve. That Love has always been there that is of God the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for the opportunity to even state that.

What we are to do is repent from our own thinking from our own hearts that He would replace it with His. Even the Israelites understand that it is through the penitent does the Blessings and Mercies of God come into the world.

 

[DPMartin]

He can’t restore us to Him if we do not choose that for ourselves. God has done so much, even giving His Son up for us. And yet, that is not enough because we have free will and we still have to do our part.

ConstantineTG
thanks for the reply

Not to get into a theological discussion on the matter. Say as you please, but God’s Choice is the only choice that matters. For the result is the Judgement, that is God’s Choice. There will be many that would chose to be in the Light of God, if they only knew.

Lord have Mercy on the children of men.

 

[theden]

Since God is Almighty, and can do as He pleases. And can take from, and give to, as He sees fit, of which there is nothing that can stop Him from doing so. Why did He require payment for the remission of sin, in order to be in His Presence?

DP,

I briefly perused the comments but I don’t know if your question has been answered.

Back to Genesis 3, when Adam (and Eve) disobeyed God, they were deprived of the Tree of Life (Genesis 3:22). Without the access to the fruit from the Tree of Life, man dies. God placed a fiery sword and a cherubim to guard the Tree (v.24). T

Christ restores the Tree of Life. Through Christ, we have eternal life. His Cross becomes the new Tree of Life and His Body is the fruit. We eat of His Body and we gain eternal life. Through obedience (and Baptism), we are united to Christ and through Christ and His Body, we gain eternal life.

Sin is disobedience to God. If we disobey God, we die. Christ pays for the penalty of our disobedience through His death. So, through His new covenant, we are baptized into Him and with obedience, we remain in Him (per John 15). Our sins are nailed to the cross and we are born anew so that we can rise with Him in the Resurrection.

Does that make sense?

 

[Carlan]

DP,

I briefly perused the comments but I don’t know if your question has been answered.

Back to Genesis 3, when Adam (and Eve) disobeyed God, they were deprived of the Tree of Life (Genesis 3:22). Without the access to the fruit from the Tree of Life, man dies. God placed a fiery sword and a cherubim to guard the Tree (v.24). T

Christ restores the Tree of Life. Through Christ, we have eternal life. His Cross becomes the new Tree of Life and His Body is the fruit. We eat of His Body and we gain eternal life. Through obedience (and Baptism), we are united to Christ and through Christ and His Body, we gain eternal life.

Sin is disobedience to God. If we disobey God, we die. Christ pays for the penalty of our disobedience through His death. So, through His new covenant, we are baptized into Him and with obedience, we remain in Him (per John 15). Our sins are nailed to the cross and we are born anew so that we can rise with Him in the Resurrection.

Does that make sense?

Theden, I think your analogy,insight is wonderful, thank you, Peace, Carlan