Pelosi Says Her Catholic Faith ‘Compels’ Her To Support Gay Marriage

[Jeanne_S]

You’ll have to excommunicate me, also, along with a lot of other Catholics who feel the same way. Charity demands civil union, IMO.

Charity demands that we show compassion and respect to all as we are all created in God’s image. Yet endorsing civil unions is being complicit with a sin against God.Marriage is a Sacrament,a Covenent between God,man and woman.Anything else is disordered.This is God’s law,not up to any of us to twist it according to what is politically correct.

 

[Havard]

polygamy is just wrong

The secular rationale behind gay marriage is that consenting adults who are mentally capable of making their own decisions should be permitted to do as the please so long as their actions and lifestyles do not violate the rights of others.

By this rationale, there’s really no valid reason to exclude polygamy.

 

[LilyM]

What you said is like “civil union”. As far as I know gay people already have those rights in US. In the company I work, we have to fill the insurance form every year in January. From at least 5 years ago, there is a category for the coverage of “partner” on the insurance form. That is for gay relationship. They have been covered in health insurance from long time ago. As for domestic violence, if there is any violence and you call the police, it will be taken care of.

I’m happy to drop the label ‘civil union’ since it seems to muddy the issue.

I’m sure not all jurisdictions and/or all insurers offer the types of arrangements you are talking about it.

In regards domestic violence, take it from a one-time criminal lawyer that it is often treated very differently from other types or violence. As it should be. So much so that there are specialist police officers on every force who are brought in in situations of domestic violence.

There are unique issues - for example referring the victim to appropriate and specialized counselling, some of which may not be available for gay relationships when these aren’t recognized as ‘domestic’ for legal purposes.

Police and courts in domestic violence cases need to be sensitive to issues such as the fact that the victim may be especially reluctant to press charges or testify, and anxious to try to repair the relationship and maintain as good relations as possible with the accused.

Some jurisdictions even have slightly different charges proferred in cases of domestic violence, and the fact that it is domestic violence might make a difference in how the case or the hearing is run, or in sentencing.

 

[mab23]

The secular rationale behind gay marriage is that consenting adults who are mentally capable of making their own decisions should be permitted to do as the please so long as their actions and lifestyles do not violate the rights of others.

By this rationale, there’s really no valid reason to exclude polygamy.

True , but ive seen interviews with woman in a polygamist relationship

many seem uneducated / naive / sheltered - im looking for the right words and they don’t like it - but consent to it, because of their religion

but Polygamy is against the law… it think - it seems as in that type of relationship the women are being taken advantage of

 

[Dawnia]

• I don’t remember reading anything Jesus taught about marriage

See Mathew 19

 

[presidentjlh]

Can she be excommunicated, please? Please, please, pretty please?

In all honesty, she has already separated herself from God, and that is the saddest result possible.

 

[mab23]

Charity demands that we show compassion and respect to all as we are all created in God’s image. Yet endorsing civil unions is being complicit with a sin against God.** Marriage is a Sacrament,a Covenent between God,man and woman** .Anything else is disordered.This is God’s law,not up to any of us to twist it according to what is politically correct.

YES you said it - its a Sacrement, IN the church!

getting married in the state - thats not a sacrament! - cause if it is, then why do i need to get my marriage con-validated by the Church - “which im in the process of”

if civil unions are endorsed , they still DO NOT get the sacrament because only one man and one woman can!

 

[jilly4ski]

For Equality - and polygamy is just wrong - I wouldn’t include that

and for Gay-rriages

so they have equal rights - plenty of the population in US has made a laughing stock of marriage - true Marriage is the sacrament in the church anyway!

which wouldn’t change if Gay-rriages happen

For equality? What is equality? Those in significantly different situations are not “equal,” just like we discriminate against other forms of marriage.

Why is polygamous marriage wrong if homosexual marriage is right? (Again I find those who support homosexual marriage have not defined marriage, and it is just whatever they feel is right, and have no definite meaning, thus homosexual marriage is fine, but polygamous marriage and adult incestuous marriage is wrong, but not based on any sort of understanding of marriage).

I was not speaking in religious terms but merely secular. The state recognizes marriage for some reason(s) surely? if we look we can see that the state supports married couples by giving them benefits which will hopefully encourage people to get married and then stay together. Because this is what the state wants. Children growing up in stable environments so they can become stable productive workers. Obviously these benefits are not the main drivers of marriage, so of course people break up, then marriage often protects the otherwise disadvantaged spouse and children (or at least they were supposed to).

And you are wrong, true marriage can happen between anyone (male and female), Catholic or not. Even sacramental marriages can happen between 2 non Catholics who are baptized. But again, I was speaking in purely secular terms in why the state should support, recognize, and give benefits to people who do not fit the reason why the state recognizes the institution in the first place.

 

[rlg94086]

Heresy? That has not been determined by the Church. Mostly because it fails to meet any of the tests or measures.

As to determining rather some one is in hell or going to hell is treading dangerous waters.

Who determined whether someone is in hell or going to hell?

 

[mab23]

See Mathew 19

**I stand corrected!
**

 

[rlg94086]

Their civil rights already ARE protected.

Marital law is civil contract law. A person ( gay or straight) who is currently bound by a marital contract may enter into a binding marital contract with one, unmarried, consenting, non consangenous human person of appropriate age and of the opposite sex.

Those are the same conditions that apply to everyone, gay or straight.

Marriage equality therefore already exists.

Heterosexuals have no more civil rights than a homosexual person in this matter. All are already equal before the law.

Exactly.

 

[mab23]

For equality? What is equality? Those in significantly different situations are not “equal,” just like we discriminate against other forms of marriage.

Why is polygamous marriage wrong if homosexual marriage is right? (Again I find those who support homosexual marriage have not defined marriage, and it is just whatever they feel is right, and have no definite meaning, thus homosexual marriage is fine, but polygamous marriage and adult incestuous marriage is wrong, but not based on any sort of understanding of marriage).

I was not speaking in religious terms but merely secular. The state recognizes marriage for some reason(s) surely? if we look we can see that the state supports married couples by giving them benefits which will hopefully encourage people to get married and then stay together. Because this is what the state wants. Children growing up in stable environments so they can become stable productive workers. Obviously these benefits are not the main drivers of marriage, so of course people break up, then marriage often protects the otherwise disadvantaged spouse and children (or at least they were supposed to).

And you are wrong, true marriage can happen between anyone (male and female), Catholic or not. Even sacramental marriages can happen between 2 non Catholics who are baptized. But again, I was speaking in purely secular terms in why the state should support, recognize, and give benefits to people who do not fit the reason why the state recognizes the institution in the first place.

oh im too tired to even try to reply - this doesn’t affect my life anyway - im going back to fight for life now , God bless all of you - even though our opinions may differ!

im out of this thread

 

[Pre_Rejected]

I don’t understand. The second statement is the Catholic Faith (yes, I recall it from the Baltimore Catechism), and the first statement is your personal faith?
But if you are a Catholic, how do you reconcile the two?

There is no reconciliation between the two.

My faith will lead me to spend an eternity, alone, in misery, in Hell.

The Catholic Faith will lead me to spend an eternity, with God, in happiness, in Heaven.

If I live by my personal beliefs, I will go to Hell. If I live by Catholic Beliefs, I will go to Heaven.

Why would I want to live according to my faith, when I can live by the Catholic Faith?

Why would I want to live according to my personal beliefs, when I can live according to Catholic Beliefs?

Why would I share my faith with other people, when I can share the Catholic Faith?

 

[Jeanne_S]

YES you said it - its a Sacrement, IN the church!

getting married in the state - thats not a sacrament! - cause if it is, then why do i need to get my marriage con-validated by the Church - “which im in the process of”

if civil unions are endorsed , they still DO NOT get the sacrament because only one man and one woman can!

Doesn’t matter.It is morally a disordered state.Man and woman,marriage,procreative act,children,God’s design.Any other combination is unnatural. Try moving past the emotional part of the argument and think about it logically.I am not trying to be rude,but it does seem to be that those who endorse civil unions and a host of other social issues get caught up in the emotions and lose sight of the facts. Just because it makes one feel good about supporting this and other controversial issues,it doesn’t make it moral.

 

[JimG]

There is no reconciliation between the two.

My faith will lead me to spend an eternity, alone, in misery, in Hell.

The Catholic Faith will lead me to spend an eternity, with God, in happiness, in Heaven.

If I live by my personal beliefs, I will go to Hell. If I live by Catholic Beliefs, I will go to Heaven.

Why would I want to live according to my faith, when I can live by the Catholic Faith?

Why would I want to live according to my personal beliefs, when I can live according to Catholic Beliefs?

Why would I share my faith with other people, when I can share the Catholic Faith?

Wow, I think I will print that out and recommend it to a priest as a homily. Short and to the point. Thanks for explaining!

 

[presidentjlh]

This is why I am more and more of the opinion that the state should withdraw from marriage altogether. This would end the issue in a way that those who are for gay marriage cannot accuse as being unconstitutional, as then marriage would be solely a matter of the churches, which is their right to practice as they wish. I believe that getting married shouldn’t mean you get financial benefits from the state. Marriage is about God most of all.

 

[Pork_Roll]

I listened to NPR today and had to stomach the gay marriage propoganda that was spewing from the speakers. The guy argued that commitment and fidelity are what matters and that gay marriage was therefore something conservatives should support. The contraceptive mentality has led to this distortion of marriage that it somehow isn’t about procreation.

 

[PTL]

Matthew 19
19 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’**? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”**

Jesus talks about “marriage” - a man and his wife , a woman.

 

[CMatt25]

As I skip reading the whole thread because I know where it’s going, my opinion is that we give a gay union all the rights a marriage union has and not worry about the semantics. Let them have the same rights a married couple has. The Catholic Church does not have to perform the ceremony. They will not be forced to anymore than they are "forced " to perform a ceremony for divorced persons. Being gay is not against the law in this country, so let’s not take it down the road of those actions that are against the law…including bestiality. If we as a country were more tolerant we wouldnt be in this mess right now…IMHO

You’re perhaps wise to skip the whole thing. Plus there’s also ones on President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden. Great post though. I see you are considering Catholicism. God bless you on your journey and His peace be with you always.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

What’s going to be different if she’s excommunicated beyond being told she is not to receive the Eucharist nor take on a parish role of any kind until reconciled? She’s still going to be a Catholic by virtue of her Baptism.

A public excommunication by her Bishop would, at least, prevent her from other scandalous pronouncements and would serve notice on other apostate politicians from making heretical statements.
Not that it would have much effect. Look at HHS Secretary Sibelius. When she was Governor, her Bishop excommunicated her for her public espousal of Abortion and Contraception laws in her State. She never publicly recanted and today is shoving that very thing down the Catholic Churches throat and along with Obama is spinning it to make it look like our Bishops are against women!
I think we are overdue for Cardinal Dolan to advise all Catholics about the dangers of voting for these people who continue to violate our Constitution.