Penn & Teller: The Vatican

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redhen said:
You’re kidding right? You’re comparing the sophomoric, snide comedy routine of Penn & Teller to the long, rich tradition of Catholic intellectualism and academia?

Even I can see the difference.
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Am I kidding? No I’m not. Can I see the difference between Penn and Teller and the Catholic Church? You bet. The Catholic Church has a much larger “fan base” and a far greater affect on those people’s belief’s than Penn and Teller either have or want to have on their fans. What I can’t see is the difference between the poster’s position on Penn and Teller’s fans and the members of the Catholic Church “who’ll believe everything they (the church) say as gospel and won’t bother to check if any of their facts were correct or distorted.” I also find it “quite disgusting how they (the church) set themselves up as some kind of moral authority.”
 
I’ve not read very much of the thread…so this may have already been quoted.

Matthew 5:11-12

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you falsely because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I think we’re blessed! 😃
 
When entertainers sense the waning of their time in the spotlight they sometimes do lash out at anyone with the permanence they envy so much.😦
 
redhen said:
My favourite Tim Hawkins video, a parody of “Jesus Take the Wheel” by Carrie Underwood.

youtube.com/watch?v=Zfs3BJZxKkc&feature=related

At least Christians have a sense of humour and can make light of themselves. What we need are some Muslim comedians who can do the same.
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There was a show on Comedy Central awhile back called “The Axis of Evil Comedy Tour”, which featured an Iranian guy, an Iraqi (I believe he was Iraqi), and a Saudi Arabian guy (they were all Americans, actually, just of Middle-Eastern descent). They joked that they tried to get a N. Korean comedian to join them, but couldn’t find one. They poked fun at Islam, as well as America’s reaction to 9/11 (which was somewhat offensive, although not downright anti-American). One of them was named Ahmed Ahmed, which also happens to be the name of a known terrorist, so he has a heck of a time at the airport, as you can imagine! He was joking about how he has to convince everyone he’s not a terrorist, and wondered if the terrorist has to convince everyone he’s not a comedien: “I’ll blow you up, I swear I will!” The Saudi guy joked how his relatives in Saudi Arabia only cuss in English, because everyone knows that God speaks Arabic, so He doesn’t know they’re cussing, and how one of his cousins hates America and complains about Americans, then when asking him (the comedian) if he was hungry, started listing off all the restaurants they could go to: “We got McDonald’s, Burger King, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Pizza Hut, whatever you want”.

So, the point of this long winded post, ;), is yes, they’re probably few and far between, but there are some Muslim comedians! But what I want to know is when are Penn and Teller going to make fun of Islam in one of their little routines. Probably not anytime soon :rolleyes:

In Christ,

Ellen
 
AnotherAtheist said:
Can I see the difference between Penn and Teller and the Catholic Church? You bet. The Catholic Church has a much larger “fan base” and a far greater affect on those people’s belief’s than Penn and Teller either have or want to have on their fans
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I recently returned to college (after 25 years) and I’m amazed at the sources for many student’s “facts”. The Internet has made intellectual couch potatoes out of many of them. Besides the militant anti-religious/Marxist garbage spewed by the professors, they also indulge in 911 conspiracy websites as “truth”. And these are the professors! It’s no wonder the kids are getting a warped perspective, disguised as “intellectual freedom”.
. What I can’t see is the difference between the poster’s position on Penn and Teller’s fans and the members of the Catholic Church “who’ll believe everything they (the church) say as gospel and won’t bother to check if any of their facts were correct or distorted.” I also find it “quite disgusting how they (the church) set themselves up as some kind of moral authority.”
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Funny you should mention that. The first day of class last year, the profs set the tone for the whole year with a “shock and awe” litany of leftist propaganda. One of the rants included a comment that religious people (Christians of course) aren’t very intelligent and are easily swayed. I pointed out to the prof in that case all the religious people in the class should instantly believe you. All I got for an answer was a dirty look.
 
redhen said:
Funny you should mention that. The first day of class last year, the profs set the tone for the whole year with a “shock and awe” litany of leftist propaganda. One of the rants included a comment that religious people (Christians of course) aren’t very intelligent and are easily swayed. I pointed out to the prof in that case all the religious people in the class should instantly believe you. All I got for an answer was a dirty look.
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😃 Great response!
 
redhen said:
I recently returned to college (after 25 years) and I’m amazed at the sources for many student’s “facts”. The Internet has made intellectual couch potatoes out of many of them. Besides the militant anti-religious/Marxist garbage spewed by the professors, they also indulge in 911 conspiracy websites as “truth”. And these are the professors! It’s no wonder the kids are getting a warped perspective, disguised as “intellectual freedom”.

Funny you should mention that. The first day of class last year, the profs set the tone for the whole year with a “shock and awe” litany of leftist propaganda. One of the rants included a comment that religious people (Christians of course) aren’t very intelligent and are easily swayed. I pointed out to the prof in that case all the religious people in the class should instantly believe you. All I got for an answer was a dirty look.
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I’m probably at least as old as you are and have never bought into organized religion. My politics tend to lean more conservative than liberal except in areas of personal choice. However I will admit that my perspective on Christianity in general has been biased by having to listen to the garbage that the young earth creationist in this part of the country spew forth each and every day.

As far as Catholicism goes I have fundamental differences of opinion with the church’s position on abortion, birth control, AIDS prevention and the general historical accuracy of the Bible. As far as I am concerned anyone who can’t even consider wearing a condom while raping their unwilling wife even though they know they are HIV positive just because an 80 year old virgin tells them it is a sin is sheeple.
 
AnotherAtheist said:
What I can’t see is the difference between the poster’s position on Penn and Teller’s fans and the members of the Catholic Church “who’ll believe everything they (the church) say as gospel
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I wish.
AnotherAtheist said:
and won’t bother to check if any of their facts were correct or distorted.”
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Since Catholics by-and-large have been receiving very poor catechesis for he last 30-40 years, many if not most don’t even know the teachings of the church, much less follow them blindly. One is tempted to wonder what century you are living in, and whether one could join you there.
AnotherAtheist said:
I also find it “quite disgusting how they (the church) set themselves up as some kind of moral authority.”
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Well the Church doesn’t set herself up as a moral authority. Christ set her up as a moral authority. 😉

As for Penn and Teller, the only reason they can do harm is because many Americans want to hate the Church, or at least to feel superior about it. The idea is that because I have voluntarily chosen to put myself under a non-coercive authority (the Church doesn’t come to your house and smack you with a ruler if you miss Mass), I am somehow not free. I’m freer than they are, because I can choose to obey authority and they apparently can’t. I can and have chosen to disobey authority in the past, but obedience is better. There’s a lot less cutting off your nose to spite your face, for one thing.

–Jen
“But flippancy is the best of all. Only a clever human can make a Joke about virtue, or indeed about anything else; any of them can be trained to talk as if virtue were funny.” C. S. Lewis, Screwtape Letters
 
AnotherAtheist said:
As far as I am concerned anyone who can’t even consider wearing a condom while raping their unwilling wife even though they know they are HIV positive just because an 80 year old virgin tells them it is a sin is sheeple.
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I find it hard to believe that you can’t see the problem with this statement. If he was listening to the Pope, he might not be HIV-positive* and he certainly wouldn’t be raping his wife. If the rapist avoids using a condom, it’s not because he’s such a faithful Catholic.

Good grief.

–Jen

*some people become HIV-positive through no fault or voluntary action of their own, but other’s don’t
 
With Penn and Teller, one has to take the bad with the good. Their critique of stuff outside the church, most would agree with.
 
AnotherAthesist commented wrongly from the show.

I’ll break down what Penn said into some contexual terms.
  1. Man in Africa has HIV of no fault of his own.
  2. He is married to woman that does not have HIV
  3. Both want consenting sex.
  4. Man wants to wear a condom to aid in the prevention of the spread of HIV to his wife.
  5. Not wearing a condom will spread HIV to the spouse which will eventually cause her to die from AIDS. Effectively the man is murdering his wife.
  6. The Church condemns the use of a Condom.
  7. The Church condemns the murder of a person.
Does a quandary exist?
 
AnotherAtheist said:
.

As far as Catholicism goes I have fundamental differences of opinion with the church’s position on abortion, birth control, AIDS prevention and the general historical accuracy of the Bible. As far as I am concerned anyone who can’t even consider wearing a condom while raping their unwilling wife even though they know they are HIV positive just because an 80 year old virgin tells them it is a sin is sheeple.
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You see, this is the case. On July 20, a report was issued by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. A scientific panel co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), developed the report. It was based on a yearlong study in which 28 researchers reviewed 138 peer-reviewed, published studies on the heterosexual transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STD).
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Their findings were stunning. Basically, it boils down to this: There is no evidence to indicate that condoms prevent the heterosexual transmission of most sexually transmitted diseases. None.
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The rest here

It would seem that it is you and not really Catholics who tend to fall prey to believing an origination/group to hold absolute truth without looking for themselves.

And on a side note all Catholics are not only asked but expected to look/research their faith everyday. So your whole blindly believing idea is way off here. Maybe you should actually try researching the Church on your own before you blindly spew the lies that our modern day culture dump into your thoughts.👍
 
Tram_Is_the_Way said:
AnotherAthesist commented wrongly from the show.

I’ll break down what Penn said into some contexual terms.
  1. Man in Africa has HIV of no fault of his own.
  2. He is married to woman that does not have HIV
  3. Both want consenting sex.
  4. Man wants to wear a condom to aid in the prevention of the spread of HIV to his wife.
  5. Not wearing a condom will spread HIV to the spouse which will eventually cause her to die from AIDS. Effectively the man is murdering his wife.
  6. The Church condemns the use of a Condom.
  7. The Church condemns the murder of a person.
Does a quandary exist?
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My comments on AIDS and Condoms have nothing to do with Penn and Teller. I’ve never seen the show in question and generally don’t watch them at all.
 
st_lucy said:
The rest here
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The source is not reliable because of it’s unique bias state. Also scholarship is missing in that there no links to any CDC online report to back up what is professed. The article is nothing but hearsay.
 
st_lucy said:
The rest here

It would seem that it is you and not really Catholics who tend to fall prey to believing an origination/group to hold absolute truth without looking for themselves.

And on a side note all Catholics are not only asked but expected to look/research their faith everyday. So your whole blindly believing idea is way off here. Maybe you should actually try researching the Church on your own before you blindly spew the lies that our modern day culture dump into your thoughts.👍
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And what you have here is 1 study. I have several that say that study was wrong. The scientific consensus is in fact that correct and consistent use of condoms is 85% effective in the prevention of the spread of HIV among married couples. Who is cherry picking now?

gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102261955.html
 
AnotherAtheist said:
My comments on AIDS and Condoms have nothing to do with Penn and Teller. I’ve never seen the show in question and generally don’t watch them at all.
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okay, but the term rape should have been changed to consenting sex in order for your point to be valid. I did not read your entire post, only what was selected by the responder. My apologies.
 
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