Pentacostal friend says Catholics are not saved

[PJM]

But is there any evidence that they were baptized or that they were registered Catholics?** I think you can be saved without being baptized by water in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. I think that there is salvation for many non-Catholics who were outside of the Catholic Church during their lifetime.**

Obviously you either are not a Christian or have either not read , or perhaps understand the bible.

John 3: 5
[5] Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mt 28: 19-20
[19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

Isaiah: 55:6-9

[6] Seek ye the Lord, while he may be found: call upon him, while he is near. [7] Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unjust man his thoughts, and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God: for he is bountiful to forgive. [8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. [9] For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts

Here my FRIEND is what your missing

The two New Testament passages I shared didn’t take EFFECT until Jesus’ Resurrection.

Here is the Official teaching of the RCC
From our Catechism:

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

**846 **How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[PJM]

I think you can be saved if you are not a registered Catholic. For example, wasn’t the good thief at the cross saved and he was not a baptized, officially registered Roman Catholic? St. Joseph is a saint of the Roman Catholic Church and therefore he is saved, yet, I don;t see where he was baptized and registered as a Roman Catholic?

I just did a reply-explanation for this. Please look for it:thumbsup:

BOTH of the examples you {correctly] give are PRE-Resurrection, so they would have been covered by the OT Laws of Circumcision. Joseph was a Jew from te LINE of David.

One supposes that the “good-theif” toowas Jewish; BUT even if he isn’t he WOULD have been covered under the emergency forms of ACCEPTABLE Baptism {Mt 16:18-19], whch are Baptism of Blood and or Desire.

God Bless you,
Patrick.

 

[guanophore]

**I don’t think Catholicism considers those communities without a valid Eucharist as “in the body” either. But that might be debatable. Especially because Baptism brings one into the Church.
**

Technically speaking, there are no communities in the body, only individual members.

CORRECTION:

While Baptism does make one a member of the Christian Community; it is nevertheless in correct to say that “they” ARE members of the ONE True Church. Such CANNOT have differing Faith beliefs.

All who are validly baptized become member so the One Church founded by Christ.

… through faith in the Gospel, and searching His Scripture, and being Baptized, enter into a Communion of the Body of Christ, though it is an imperfect, or wounded Communion.

Yes. It is part of what hinders the effectiveness of the Church. Jesus did not want heterodoxy.

 

[rcwitness]

Technically speaking, there are no communities in the body, only individual members.

Ok. I accept that perspective.

Yes. It is part of what hinders the effectiveness of the Church. Jesus did not want heterodoxy.

That quote was actually mine. PJM had a few posting mistakes.

 

[Speak_The_Truth]

youtube.com/watch?v=LQCYzZckFCE

Watch this video. Below are 3 beliefs that go totally against what the bible teaches.

• They Believe you can confess your sins to a priest who can forgive you
• The Roman catholic church idolizes Mary, and many of the other saints
• They Believe in purgatory, despite it being mentioned NO WHERE in the bible.

Jesus Christ is the only one who can forgive you of your sins, no man has the power to for-give you

It says in the bible over and over again you shall have no idols before the lord your god. Did Mary die on the cross for our sins? did any saint die on the cross for our sins?

Jesus says in his own word numerous times that Hell is eternal, and that heaven is eternal also.

Please read the description of the video no how to be saved. Don’t take my word for it read what the KJV Bible actually teaches.

 

[rcwitness]

youtube.com/watch?v=LQCYzZckFCE

Watch this video. Below are 3 beliefs that go totally against what the bible teaches.

• They Believe you can confess your sins to a priest who can forgive you
• The Roman catholic church idolizes Mary, and many of the other saints
• They Believe in purgatory, despite it being mentioned NO WHERE in the bible.

Jesus Christ is the only one who can forgive you of your sins, no man has the power to for-give you

It says in the bible over and over again you shall have no idols before the lord your god. Did Mary die on the cross for our sins? did any saint die on the cross for our sins?

Jesus says in his own word numerous times that Hell is eternal, and that heaven is eternal also.

Please read the description of the video no how to be saved. Don’t take my word for it read what the KJV Bible actually teaches.

What does this have to do with the thread? Are you Pentacostal?

There are ignorant videos of all sorts, making all sorts of unsound claims and accusations. Why don’t you research each of these issues you have individually and with the heart of Christ?

 

[justthistime]

I have recently had a conversation with a woman who I keep running into. I kept wondering why I kept seeing her around town.

The first time I saw her she was praying for the woman sharing my hospital room.

We both had broken ankles. This woman praying made an impression on me.

She seemed to be strong and have faith.

I would see her at the retail store where I worked or the mall or grocery store and wonder why God was making our paths cross.
So the other night she was at the restaurant where I was and I said hi and she sat down and we began chatting. She had told me before she attends a couple of churches and does various ministries.

She calls herself a Pentecostal and also said she was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic women’s college and her husband went to a Jesuit college and they were married many years then he asked for a divorce and became New Age and she became a Protestant and was saved.

Throughout the conversation she repeated that Catholics aren’t saved. I wanted to ask her if someone had made her feel guilty for being Catholic.

Are Pentecostals anti-Catholic and why do they think Catholics are not saved?

answer

John 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see …

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see … to be born again, is to begin to live anew, as those who have lived much amiss, …

ohn 3:1-21 ESV - You Must Be Born Again - Now there was …

You Must Be Born Again - Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, … 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you …

most catholics have the “salvation” water baptised experience -(saved)

• but do not have the born again experience of the Holy Spirit-

this is also true for the Baptists – and the 7th day Adventists-- and others–

Penecostal’s embrace the ministry gifts of the Holy Spirit that saint paul speaks of in 1 cor 12/and chapter 14–

Catholics are taught – isaiah 11;1-7, with is the fruits of the holy Spirit

 

[rcwitness]

most catholics have the “salvation” water baptised experience -(saved)

• but do not have the born again experience of the Holy Spirit-

How do you know the spiritual condition of “most Catholics”???

But ok, we will assume that’s correct for now.

Do you believe these (who have a “water Baptized experience” salvation) know the Catholic faith? Or are they just not interested in the Spiritual realities of their own Baptism? If they believed what the Church Teaches and keep it, will they be saved?

I take it you are referring to an Infant Baptized Catholic, who does not have much interest in their faith. Does the Pentacostal church Baptize their children?

 

[ltwin]

most catholics have the “salvation” water baptised experience -(saved)

• but do not have the born again experience of the Holy Spirit-

this is also true for the Baptists – and the 7th day Adventists-- and others–

Penecostal’s embrace the ministry gifts of the Holy Spirit that saint paul speaks of in 1 cor 12/and chapter 14–

Catholics are taught – isaiah 11;1-7, with is the fruits of the holy Spirit

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is not the “born again experience of the Holy Spirit.” I’m afraid you are confusing two very distinct crisis experiences in the life of a believer.

We are saved by faith in Christ. This is the new birth, and it is accomplished by the agency of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a distinct and separate experience that comes after the new birth. This is an experience of empowerment, not salvation.

 

[ltwin]

Do you believe these (who have a “water Baptized experience” salvation) know the Catholic faith? Or are they just not interested in the Spiritual realities of their own Baptism? If they believed what the Church Teaches and keep it, will they be saved?

I take it you are referring to an Infant Baptized Catholic, who does not have much interest in their faith. Does the Pentacostal church Baptize their children?

We don’t baptize infants, but that’s not what the poster is referring to. He is one of the very few Pentecostals who believe that water baptism and speaking in tongues are both required for for salvation. They are both considered as outward signs of Spirit’s work of salvation.

 

[rcwitness]

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is not the “born again experience of the Holy Spirit.” I’m afraid you are confusing two very distinct crisis experiences in the life of a believer.

We are saved by faith in Christ. This is the new birth, and it is accomplished by the agency of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a distinct and separate experience that comes after the new birth. This is an experience of empowerment, not salvation.

Hey twin,
Thanks for the quality control. Though im just interested in his observations and impressions of Catholics and Catholic Teaching.

 

[Little_Sheep]

I have not read through this entire thread yet, but the title struck me because I have a handful of Catholic friends who say Pentecostals are not saved and will not enter Heaven.

That strikes me as ironic.

I’m uncertain where the Catholic Church “officially” finds itself these days on the subject of Ecumenism these days. Things I’ve read on that particular “heresy” spin my brain into a pretzel.

My time is best spent focusing on my own path and my own salvation. I can’t imagine that I know enough to judge anyone else’s beyond perhaps appreciating the fruits (or not) of their lived beliefs.

 

[guanophore]

How do you know the spiritual condition of “most Catholics”???

But ok, we will assume that’s correct for now.

ARe not most Catholics baptized as infants? The rest of them get baptized older, but they are all baptized!

Do you believe these (who have a “water Baptized experience” salvation) know the Catholic faith? Or are they just not interested in the Spiritual realities of their own Baptism? If they believed what the Church Teaches and keep it, will they be saved?

I think that most Catholics are sacramentalized but not evangelized. I would have to agree that they do not “experience the born again” in an emotional or spiritually transforming manner.

I take it you are referring to an Infant Baptized Catholic, who does not have much interest in their faith. Does the Pentacostal church Baptize their children?

I attended an Assembly of God church for a year, and you were not “saved” if you were not happy and “on fire with the Holy Ghost”. You showed your interest in your faith by praying in tongues and carrying your bible everywhere.

You have to admit that most Catholics don’t do that!

 

[benhur]

I have recently had a conversation with a woman who I keep running into. I kept wondering why I kept seeing her around town. The first time I saw her she was praying for the woman sharing my hospital room. We both had broken ankles. This woman praying made an impression on me. She seemed to be strong and have faith.
I would see her at the retail store where I worked or the mall or grocery store and wonder why God was making our paths cross.
So the other night she was at the restaurant where I was and I said hi and she sat down and we began chatting. She had told me before she attends a couple of churches and does various ministries. She calls herself a Pentecostal and also said she was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic women’s college and her husband went to a Jesuit college and they were married many years then he asked for a divorce and became New Age and she became a Protestant and was saved. Throughout the conversation she repeated that Catholics aren’t saved. I wanted to ask her if someone had made her feel guilty for being Catholic.
Are Pentecostals anti-Catholic and why do they think Catholics are not saved?

Hi 7,

Was she more referring to herself and husband ? She included herself, right, not being saved as a Catholic ? Was she speaking about her own experience, even with other Catholics?

Do you still see her, for it seems you were still resistant to opening up more with her.

I would also ask her if she assumes all Orthodox are "saved, or all Anglicans, Lutherans,even Baptists. She may be more anti institution or baptismal regeneration than anti Catholic. How long ago was she “saved” ?

Blessings

 

[7_Sorrows]

Hi 7,

Was she more referring to herself and husband ? She included herself, right, not being saved as a Catholic ? Was she speaking about her own experience, even with other Catholics?

Do you still see her, for it seems you were still resistant to opening up more with her.

I would also ask her if she assumes all Orthodox are "saved, or all Anglicans, Lutherans,even Baptists. She may be more anti institution or baptismal regeneration than anti Catholic. How long ago was she “saved” ?

Blessings

she mentioned her whole family as not being saved because they were Catholics and then again during our conversation she mentioned Catholics are not saved. By then I had told her I was Catholic and had converted in 2008 before moving to the town where I currently live.

 

[benhur]

I have not read through this entire thread yet, but the title struck me because I have a handful of Catholic friends who say Pentecostals are not saved and will not enter Heaven.

That strikes me as ironic.

I’m uncertain where the Catholic Church “officially” finds itself these days on the subject of Ecumenism these days. Things I’ve read on that particular “heresy” spin my brain into a pretzel.

My time is best spent focusing on my own path and my own salvation. I can’t imagine that I know enough to judge anyone else’s beyond perhaps appreciating the fruits (or not) of their lived beliefs.

HiLS,

Yes blessings on you journey with our mutual Lord.

The Catholic view on “others” , outside of the Catholic Church, is very “pretzeled”. On one hand the second Vat and Lumen Gentia was very gracious to us, calling us brethren, somehow still adding to the unity of the Catholic Church. Yet elsewhere we are told if we* knowingly* deny her, we are in "trouble’’ . Also we have no way of receiving the Eucharist, nor reconciliation, except thru properly ordained clergy (in allegiance to Rome), and Christ said we must eat His body and be forgiven of mortal sins to enter heaven. etc . Maybe they really still do mean there is no salvation outside the CC.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

that is what I was wondering, and I would love to be able to bring her back to the Catholic Church. I am a convert myself of 8 years. We were supposed to go to a late lunch on Friday and I invited her to the Stations of the Cross on Friday evening, but she declined to attend the Stations and then cancelled the lunch too saying she was too tired. We set another time to get together Saturday afternoon and she cancelled again. Maybe just talking to me it is stirring up something inside of her that she is fighting. I wasn’t going to spend my time with her 100% trying to revert her back to Catholicism but I truly think she is nice and has a beautiful spirit because she gives so much of herself. She is divorced and her ex has passed and she has 2 adult children with disabilities of some kind- one lives in a place where he is looked after and her adult daughter has an apartment. A third son lives 2 1/2 hours away and she hasn’t seen him in 25 years. She is 74 and seems so strong and such a strong faith in Jesus. So since she has cancelled twice, I am going to wait and see if she calls again and set some boundaries. I don’t want her to think I only want to be friends in order to bring her back to Church. I am divorced too and 10 years younger, but I am lonely too and I live with my son and daughter-in-law and take care of my grandkids. I moved to the town I live in 8 years ago and don’t have many friends so I was hoping she might be someone I might be able to get together with once a month to have breakfast or lunch with and have a friendship, but maybe Pentecostals and Catholics can’t be friends. I remember now a co-worker I once knew who was Pentecostal and I thought she was nice too, but I always felt she judged me as a Catholic. Since I am a Catholic of only 8 years I don’t know If this is something I will encounter often. I would welcome any advice.

Hi 7,
after this post maybe she really is tired and not putting you off. Keep trying. This seems kind of stupid to say but somehow tell her you feel , as you did in this post. I know I am moved for the both of you, and so far do not see any true reason for isolation.

Blessings

 

[guanophore]

I have not read through this entire thread yet, but the title struck me because I have a handful of Catholic friends who say Pentecostals are not saved and will not enter Heaven.

That strikes me as ironic.

I’m uncertain where the Catholic Church “officially” finds itself these days on the subject of Ecumenism these days. Things I’ve read on that particular “heresy” spin my brain into a pretzel.

My time is best spent focusing on my own path and my own salvation. I can’t imagine that I know enough to judge anyone else’s beyond perhaps appreciating the fruits (or not) of their lived beliefs.

Only God knows who is/will be saved because only He can judge the heart. It is safe to stand on the Catechism on this issue, which is refreshing for many members of non-Catholic ecclesial communities.

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

 

[benhur]

she mentioned her whole family as not being saved because they were Catholics and then again during our conversation she mentioned Catholics are not saved. By then I had told her I was Catholic and had converted in 2008 before moving to the town where I currently live.

Did she quiet up after that, when she realized you were Catholic ? or did she preach a little to you, or testify more of her experience ?

 

[rcwitness]

ARe not most Catholics baptized as infants? The rest of them get baptized older, but they are all baptized!

Sure. The poster implied that Catholics “experience” water Baptism, but do not “experience” the Holy Spirit. So I am trying to understand how they would know the condition (accepting/rejecting the Holy Spirit) of Catholics (especially “most”). I was trying to start somewhere, because I admit I don’t know what he was talking about. Maybe my questions were not very… fitting?

I think that most Catholics are sacramentalized but not evangelized. I would have to agree that they do not “experience the born again” in an emotional or spiritually transforming manner.

Depends on the individual. If they are looking for the Spirit, they will find Him.

I find it interesting when people make generalizations about whole groups of people, though. It takes getting to know an individual to test him about his spiritual condition!