Pentagon Study: Low Risk to Ending 'Don't Ask'

[Rich_Olszewski]

typical of the culture of death to use a rigged public opinion poll to determine what’s best for society.

Have you any evidence that the poll is rigged?

why not ask them if occasional drug use is ok

The use of drugs is illegal. Being a homosexual is not, nor is it illegal for a homosexual to serve under DADT.

or if limited prostitution

Prostitution is illegal and no one has ever proposed that it be tolerated on a Navy ship

.and alcohol on navy ships would seriously affect the mission.

Alcohol is allowed in every other armed service I’ve ever heard of - when I got a ride with the French Air Force (COMFAS), the crew drank wine with their meals, and the British Navy has always allowed alcohol.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

"Cindy McCain is speaking publicly about her dislike of the Pentagon’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy banning gays from serving openly in the military. In an antibullying video released by the NOH8 campaign, the wife of Sen. John McCain (R) of Arizona says, among other things, that the “government treats the [gay] community like second-class citizens.”

It’s Mrs. McCain’s second appearance in an ad for NOH8, a gay rights group. But in the first she did not speak – she appeared with silver duct tape across her mouth and the group’s name written on her cheek.

Senator McCain is one of the key lawmakers blocking repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Such a repeal has passed both House and Senate committees, but McCain has helped block it from moving forward, saying he wants to study a forthcoming Pentagon report on the issue."

csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/1112/Cindy-McCain-splits-with-John-on-don-t-ask-don-t-tell.-Meghan-s-with-mom

 

[new_User1357246]

Why should we trust the people in the military who can’t bear to fight alongside openly gay people (people whose lifestyle they don’t respect) to carry guns around foreign countries filled with all types of people, some of whom might be gay an some of whom they might not respect for one reason or another.

It’s about professionalism and if a soldier can’t deal with it he should get out. The military would be better of without him. We need quality and professionalism, not just quantity.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well I myself am on the way in sometime next year and Stanmaxkolbe who has done his time an he points out we already have many gays in the service it is an open secret.

It may be observed that the military is already having difficulty recruiting enough qualified people.

 

[Ridgerunner]

"Cindy McCain is speaking publicly about her dislike of the Pentagon’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy banning gays from serving openly in the military. In an antibullying video released by the NOH8 campaign, the wife of Sen. John McCain (R) of Arizona says, among other things, that the “government treats the [gay] community like second-class citizens.”

It’s Mrs. McCain’s second appearance in an ad for NOH8, a gay rights group. But in the first she did not speak – she appeared with silver duct tape across her mouth and the group’s name written on her cheek.

Senator McCain is one of the key lawmakers blocking repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Such a repeal has passed both House and Senate committees, but McCain has helped block it from moving forward, saying he wants to study a forthcoming Pentagon report on the issue."

csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/1112/Cindy-McCain-splits-with-John-on-don-t-ask-don-t-tell.-Meghan-s-with-mom

You voted for John McCain, then? Of course not.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I realize this is regional and anecdotal, but I live in the Bible Belt, where a very significant portion of the most dedicated soldiers come from. Parents actually encourage enlistment on the part of their children. I think I know these people well enough to know that when the military accepts open homosexuality as part of its culture, many, if not most of them, will strongly discourage putting their children into that.

Keep in mind that those same people were just as opposed - even more so, I think - back when Truman integrated the Armed Forces, when they learned that their precious sons were going to have to go through the horror of living and sleeping and showering and training with “coloreds,” all in the same barracks!

Call them what you want, but they stand between you and Al Quada, among others. You will not be better off when they’re no longer there. A previous poster showed a source stating that 10-15% of the present military would leave if DADT is repealed. What would be the multiplier among those who don’t enlist in the first place?

If 10 to 15% have such a low opinion of what it means to be a soldier and a professional - then let them go and be done with them.

And you couldn’t possibly know any significant number of Fundamentalists or you would not dismiss them so cavlierly. They’re serious people who actually do try to live moral lives. They take the Bible as their moral guide.

More like they take what their preacher tells them as their moral guide, and that depends on how he chooses to interpret the Bible.

Secular relativists take society’s whims as theirs. As between the two, I would prefer to live with the former over the latter.

Chacun à son goût.

 

[gilliam]

If the study comes out the same as what is being reported now. DADT will be repealed by congress either by the end of this year or early next year.

I even foresee McCain coming out in favor of the repeal.

That is if the study says what has been leaked without any caveats.

 

[cyberwolf001]

cyberwolf001;7259485:

And I have no particular reason to believe you are from the same area as I am, or even a similar one, being several states away.

I notice you still refuse to address the Faithful Catholics in the military that say ending DADT will be a good thing.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

As I stated on other threads I have no agenda I am stating from my experience of over twenty years as a dogface. I’ve been in combat units and combat support units from carrying a backpack radio on my back to satellite communications; I’ve been at Cavalry Squadron level busting track on armored vehicles to General Staff I never went above a combat division level. There were homosexuals at all those levels.

Ok War Story:
In the Army you shoot, move, and communicate:

My last combat tour was Desert Storm I had remote signal teams spread across the battlefield some with units others by themselves. Had a Staff Sergeant in charge of a team of five men that was alone at the FLOT [Forward Line Of Troops] the MLRS’s would come to the FLOT, right down from my teams location, fire missiles and move back to the rear.

My team had to stay to provide communications the only thing between my team and three Iraqi Armored Divisions was one Bradley Fighting Vehicle from the Second Armored Division we were at their fallback position. This was done numerous of times before G-Day to draw Iraqi Divisions to the Tri-border; a deception plan.

This Staff Sergeant was awarded yes I recommend it THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL for the outstanding service this Non Commissioned Officer did going beyond the normal line of duty.

This Sergeant is female and lesbian has never done any misconduct let alone sexual misconduct. Today she is still active duty and a Command Sergeant Major with three tours of Iraq under her belt.

Should we kick her out just because of her sexually? If we do it; that is discrimination and that is against Church teachings.

BTW; I had another team on the other side of the Divisions AO that did same thing the Staff Sergeant was a heterosexual male and he was also awarded and yes I recommend it THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL for the outstanding service this Non Commissioned Officer did going beyond the normal line of duty.

That was just to show you I recommend promotion or awards on peoples duty performance not their sexually!!!

If these young men and women want to serve putting their lives on the line for our and their freedom—let them serve man. How is that going to harm anyone?

I say again; see above.

As cyberwolf pointed out homosexuals serving is; well I can only speak about the Army is an open secret. I had a Commander at the time was an LTC O-6 he was not married we all knew he was gay he was even seen in gay bars in Austin.

He was West Point one of the best professional Officers I ever had the honor of serving with—today he’s a retired General Officer.

Let them serve man because they already do.

 

[edwest2]

Who are you talking to? No one from the Pentagon here. And a few words from the Supreme Court:

blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/11/supreme-court-keeps-dont-ask-dont-tell-in-effect.html

It’s interesting to watch propaganda for a social engineering project on a Catholic message board. This is not a civil rights issue. No one here is addressing the basis for this new version of the “new normal.”

Everyone knows gays have been serving but this is just another effort to legitimize the marriage issue. It’s not about anything else.

Catholics have no right to bully homosexuals. The sad fact is that gay marriage appeared on the ballot and our response was required. Why did they even bother to ask?

Peace,
Ed

 

[Ridgerunner]

Keep in mind that those same people were just as opposed - even more so, I think - back when Truman integrated the Armed Forces, when they learned that their precious sons were going to have to go through the horror of living and sleeping and showering and training with “coloreds,” all in the same barracks!
**Totally inapplicable comparison. There is nothing immoral or perverse about being black, and I have never known anyone who thought it. And what makes you so prejudiced against people who live in the Bible Belt? There is no reason to think they opposed integration any more than did people in the north. Today, there is probably even less reason. **

If 10 to 15% have such a low opinion of what it means to be a soldier and a professional - then let them go and be done with them. More likely they have a high opinion of what it means to be a soldier and a professional; those who would prefer to keep open sodomy and official endorsement of it out of the profession.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Ridgerunner;7260584:

I notice you still refuse to address the Faithful Catholics in the military that say ending DADT will be a good thing.

I am unaware of any study that says the majority of TRULY faithful Catholics in the military favor ending DADT. Possibly you can produce one.

It does not strike me as likely you will. Truly faithful Catholics would be mindful of and faithful to the teachings of the Church, and would not likely endorse any governmental action, whether in the military or elsewhere, that endorses overt homosexual activity as being equivalent to heterosexual relationships, any more than most faithful Catholics would favor the idea of the military officially endorsing open adultery, fornication or child molestation.

Equating homosexual relationships with heterosexual relationships is a secular progressive ideal, not a Catholic ideal. To whatever extent some Catholics may favor overt expressions of active homosexuality or government policies equating it with heterosexual relationships, they have adopted a societal moral concept, not a Catholic one.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Totally inapplicable comparison. There is nothing immoral or perverse about being black, and I have never known anyone who thought it.

Of course, there’s nothing immoral or perverse about being black, but those Southern whites certainly objected to integration of our armed forces because they were prejudiced. You say that you know no one like that. Were you around in the late 40s?

And what makes you so prejudiced against people who live in the Bible Belt? There is no reason to think they opposed integration any more than did people in the north.

Are you serious? No reason to believe that Bible Belters opposed integration??? Remember the Freedom Marches, the Little Rock School Integration crisis of 1957, Bull Connor and peaceful protesters in Alabama, and other such incidents?

More likely they have a high opinion of what it means to be a soldier and a professional; those who would prefer to keep open sodomy and official endorsement of it out of the profession.

I do think they have a false idea of what it is to be a professional soldier. Stan Kolbe has put as succinctly and specifically as he could in relating the problems he had with women and homosexuals in his long military career. None, and where there were problems, nothing that couldn’t be taken care of on the lowest level.

I don’t want the Church to tell us how to run our military forces any more than I want the military to tell us how the Church should be run.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Of course, there’s nothing immoral or perverse about being black, but those Southern whites certainly objected to integration of our armed forces because they were prejudiced. You say that you know no one like that. Were you around in the late 40s?

Are you serious? No reason to believe that Bible Belters opposed integration??? Remember the Freedom Marches, the Little Rock School Integration crisis of 1957, Bull Connor and peaceful protesters in Alabama, and other such incidents?

I do think they have a false idea of what it is to be a professional soldier. Stan Kolbe has put as succinctly and specifically as he could in relating the problems he had with women and homosexuals in his long military career. None, and where there were problems, nothing that couldn’t be taken care of on the lowest level.

I don’t want the Church to tell us how to run our military forces any more than I want the military to tell us how the Church should be run.

I did not say that no southerners opposed integration, any more than I said no northerners did. As near as I could tell at the time, both were about the same. The difference was that segregation was “de jure” in the south, whereas it was “de facto” in the north…and still is.

With all due respect to Stan Kolbe, his feelings about government endorsement of overt homosexuality in the military is not mandatory upon me.

The Church is not in a position to tell the U.S. government how it should run its military, notwithstanding that a lot of liberals seem to think it should when it comes to issues like treatment of captured terrorists. But the Church is certainly in a position to tell me how I should regard active homosexual activity and scandal. It is in a position to tell me how I should regard equating homosexual activity with heterosexual relationships, and how I should regard governmental activity that promotes the acceptance of immorality in society.

I am, Rich, fully aware that DADT will be repealed, notwithstanding significant opposition to that in the military itself, and notwithstanding that it will be a governmental affirmation of homosexuality as equivalent to heterosexuality. But I don’t have to approve of that, any more than I have to approve of governmental affirmation of abortion on demand.

 

[irishpatrick]

…

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I am, Rich, fully aware that DADT will be repealed, notwithstanding significant opposition to that in the military itself, and notwithstanding that it will be a governmental affirmation of homosexuality as equivalent to heterosexuality. But I don’t have to approve of that, any more than I have to approve of governmental affirmation of abortion on demand.

That said, I have no argument against your position and respect it, though mine is the opposite. We often have to live with government actions that we may not personally approve of.

 

[bbarrick8383]

This is 2010, almost 2011. Not 1950.

 

[cyberwolf001]

This is 2010, almost 2011. Not 1950.

I think it wont be till 2050 that people figure this out sadly.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

This is 2010, almost 2011. Not 1950.

Right, and today, there’s even less reason to be prejudiced against certain citizens who want to openly enlist. (Not to say that there was any reason to be prejudiced in the late 40s about Truman’s decision.)

 

[edwest2]

This is 2010, almost 2011. Not 1950.

The calendar myth. The date on the calendar has nothing to do with anything.

As a black woman said, “I know people who used to be gay but I don’t know anyone who used to be black.”

Peace,
Ed