Pentecostal View Towards Catholics?

[Melodeonist]

Last year I met a Pentecostal at my College. He was a nice guy, but one thing that has been stuck in my mind ever since was that he mentioned something along the lines (and I could be remembering here) that either he was a Christian or he said something that seemed to insinuate that Catholics aren’t Christians.

I’m more puzzled by the latter partial-memory of the conversation. Why do Pentecostals believe this if I understood him right and didn’t misremember the conversation?

 

[ltwin]

Last year I met a Pentecostal at my College. He was a nice guy, but one thing that has been stuck in my mind ever since was that he mentioned something along the lines (and I could be remembering here) that either he was a Christian or he said something that seemed to insinuate that Catholics aren’t Christians.

I’m more puzzled by the latter partial-memory of the conversation. Why do Pentecostals believe this if I understood him right and didn’t misremember the conversation?

Not all Pentecostals have this attitude. Conversely, this tendency to distinguish between “Christian” and “Catholic” is not just found among Pentecostals. You could find this distinction being made among many different Protestant groups.

This seems to be an outgrowth of tensions over between the two faiths. In America and other places in the world, Pentecostal churches have been making a lot of converts among historically Catholic populations. Pentecostal missionaries often report being treated with suspicion and derogatory labels by Catholic priests.

Of course, Pentecostals and Catholics have our differences, but there have been efforts in recent decades to achieve a greater level of dialogue and understanding. You might be interested to learn about the Joint International Commission for Catholic–Pentecostal Dialogue.

 

[Allegra]

A former-evangelical friend of mine posted on facebook something along the lines of, “Every Christian in my life has ended up stabbing me in the back!” I responded with something along the lines of, “What the heck did I do?” and she responded, “I don’t consider you to be a Christian.” I guess I was supposed to consider that a compliment?

 

[Edmundus1581]

Not all Pentecostals have this attitude. Conversely, this tendency to distinguish between “Christian” and “Catholic” is not just found among Pentecostals. You could find this distinction being made among many different Protestant groups.

Indeed. It is very common within Protestant groups to not count Catholics as Christians.

In general, it is also most common in the young, the enthusiastic, the new converts, and those who have had little contact with Catholicism. In short, it is a non-culpable ignorance. Many soften their attitude as they learn more. It is actually quite difficult to let go of a “black-vs-white” attitude to Catholicism, as it is in any area of belief, but many have the courage to do it.

 

[Wannano]

Indeed. It is very common within Protestant groups to not count Catholics as Christians.

In general, it is also most common in the young, the enthusiastic, the new converts, and those who have had little contact with Catholicism. In short, it is a non-culpable ignorance. Many soften their attitude as they learn more. It is actually quite difficult to let go of a “black-vs-white” attitude to Catholicism, as it is in any area of belief, but many have the courage to do it.

Things can be confusing though. My children were attending a Christian school that did not yet have a gym. The local Catholic school rented their gym to our school. One day while the kids from our school filed by a classroom on their way to the gym a Catholic student yelled out the window…“why don’t you G-------n Christians use your own gym?” Supper conversation was interesting that night.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Not a Pentecostal thing, it’s more of a Sola Scriptura thing. Unfortunately the practice of SS has been known to produce over confidence or even arrogance in one’s own ability to interpret the bible and draw conclusions on who or who isn’t Christians. Protestant Apologist Matt Slick even went as far creating his table of essential vs non essential teachings of the Christian faith. And he decides, based on his own imaginary authority, who is going to heaven or hell. It’s quite fascinating.

The Pentecostals are actually a friend to the Faith as they helped ignite the Charismatic Catholic renewal

 

[3_Dog_Night]

Allegra wrote: A former-evangelical friend of mine posted on facebook something along the lines of, “Every Christian in my life has ended up stabbing me in the back!” I responded with something along the lines of, “What the heck did I do?” and she responded, “I don’t consider you to be a Christian.” I guess I was supposed to consider that a compliment?

I realize you were offended or put off by her FB post. I might have responded something along the lines of “then there is no good reason to have Christian friends if there is not any difference as to how Christian friends and non-Christian friends act. You would have better luck with non-Christians friends then – at least they won’t back-stab you.”

Then I think I would have invited her to convert to Catholicism – seeing as Catholics aren’t Christian and seeing as you have a pretty good track record as her friend. You have Catholic friends, Allegra? Yes! Your former evangelical friend from the sound of it would have been better off to befriend more despised Samaritans (oops, I mean the Catholics).

Hopefully you understood my attempt at humor and that all of it was said tongue in cheek. Yes, she meant her response as a compliment (a backhanded one at that).

 

[adamhovey1988]

Depends on which ones, I’d imagine

 

[ctb95]

Generally speaking, low-church evangelical/charismatic Protestants tend to have more of an anti-Catholic streak compared to Protestantism as a whole. Many of these groups don’t believe Catholics are Christians.

That being said, you will find plenty of Evangelicals or Pentecostals who consider Catholics to be Christians. I guess it just depends on the church or person you’re talking to.

 

[benhur]

Last year I met a Pentecostal at my College. He was a nice guy, but one thing that has been stuck in my mind ever since was that he mentioned something along the lines (and I could be remembering here) that either he was a Christian or he said something that seemed to insinuate that Catholics aren’t Christians.

I’m more puzzled by the latter partial-memory of the conversation. Why do Pentecostals believe this if I understood him right and didn’t misremember the conversation?

Hi m,

Maybe because many P’s believe you must or have had a born again experience as an adult (even after infant baptism), and understand Catholicism to teach that if you are baptized as an infant your are both Catholic and born again. So the P is just not taking for granted that an infant baptism , or even confirmation, being religious, makes you “born again” or means you have had a saving encounter with Christ.

But anyone who has had this experience is a Christian, regardless of being Orthodox , Protestant or Catholic.

Blessings

 

[Peebo]

And lets not forget there are many “former” Catholics who don’t consider Catholics Christians

 

[mVitus]

I’ll agree it is largely a Protestant thing to not consider Catholics as Christians.

Some of those prejudices are behind it, but I wonder if their own name is part of it. For example if I was asked to identify my religion, I’d put Catholic. And even though I know we’re Christians, I’d feel weird bein referred to as Christian vs Catholic.
Part of that is that I realize the various denominations that fall under Christianity so it’s a matter of specificity. But some Protestants don’t have nomenclature beyond Christian. This is a conversation I’ll have at times.

Person: mentions they’re Christian
Me: Ah, which denomination?
Person: Christian
Me: Yes, but which kind?
Person: Just Christian

So if they define themself as nothing more than Christian, I could the thought of "Well I’m a Christian and you have different beliefs so obviously you can’t be Christian too.) Though I haven’t really looked into it.

And to be fair, on a similar thread to this there were some Protestants mentioning they’d had experiences of some Catholics thinking they (the Protestants) weren’t Christians.

 

[Georgia]

Where I’m from, it isn’t too unusual to hear someone say, “Catholics and Christians.” Some OSAS church publications will mention people being “saved out of the Catholic Church.”

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Not a Pentecostal thing, it’s more of a Sola Scriptura thing. Unfortunately the practice of SS has been known to produce over confidence or even arrogance in one’s own ability to interpret the bible and draw conclusions on who or who isn’t Christians. Protestant Apologist Matt Slick even went as far creating his table of essential vs non essential teachings of the Christian faith. And he decides, based on his own imaginary authority, who is going to heaven or hell. It’s quite fascinating.

The Pentecostals are actually a friend to the Faith as they helped ignite the Charismatic Catholic renewal

Here we go again on your SS hobby horse.
It has NOTHING to do with SS. What the OP describes is not common to all Protestants and even all Pentecostals.

 

[Melodeonist]

Thanks for the replies! That really clears things up!

 

[Michael68]

Where I’m from, it isn’t too unusual to hear someone say, “Catholics and Christians.” Some OSAS church publications will mention people being “saved out of the Catholic Church.”

I seen and heard this too! Sad

 

[JustaServant]

The Pentecostals are actually a friend to the Faith as they helped ignite the Charismatic Catholic renewal

Not entirely true.

One also must remember there are major differences between Pentecostals and Charismatics.

 

[rcwitness]

Things can be confusing though. My children were attending a Christian school that did not yet have a gym. The local Catholic school rented their gym to our school. One day while the kids from our school filed by a classroom on their way to the gym a Catholic student yelled out the window…“why don’t you G-------n Christians use your own gym?” Supper conversation was interesting that night.

Wow! That’s a crazy thing for a child to say! Was there a teacher response to this?

Obviously, one could tell their child that this was a troubled student who didn’t agree with his own school’s openness to other Christians.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Not a Pentecostal thing, it’s more of a Sola Scriptura thing. Unfortunately the practice of SS has been known to produce over confidence or even arrogance in one’s own ability to interpret the bible and draw conclusions on who or who isn’t Christians. Protestant Apologist Matt Slick even went as far creating his table of essential vs non essential teachings of the Christian faith. And he decides, based on his own imaginary authority, who is going to heaven or hell. It’s quite fascinating.

Here we go again on your SS hobby horse.
It has NOTHING to do with SS. What the OP describes is not common to all Protestants and even all Pentecostals.

I looked up Matt Slick’s Doctrine Grid and did find it fascinating, particularly that someone can be so thorough and and apparently objective in biblical detail, and yet at the same time be so wild and un-selfconscious in projecting their personal beliefs as biblical dogma. Yes - fascinating. When I see this I get a better idea of why some of my mature and learned Protestant friends spend so much of their valuable time in endless scriptural debates - even amongst themselves.

OTOH, all Protestants profess Sola Scriptura in one form or another, and when they deny Catholics as Christians almost invariably do so on biblical grounds - particularly the differences over salvation by grace alone through faith alone, vs. baptism, or, more simply, over “worshiping of idols”. (from their point of view, of course, which they take for granted is “biblical”, and with limited understanding of Catholicism)

 

[3_Dog_Night]

I have it on good authority that as long as one says the “sinner’s prayer” and “makes a decision for Christ” then all is well for eternity. It doesn’t matter if you said that prayer 36 years ago – never will a question be raised after that. And if you ever doubt your decision and your salvation, the Pastor will tell you: (1) did you pray the sinner’s prayer? (2) did you mean it? were you sincere? (3) God promises salvation to those who believe. do you trust that God honors his promises? If you answer “yes” to 1, 2 and 3, then (4) is a reassurance that you are most definitely “saved”; you just need to rebuke the Devil.

Make the sign of the cross to seal the deal (or not!) on the one and only Sacrament of the Protestant faith (i.e., that would be the Sinner’s Prayer) and you are golden. It doesn’t matter if you live like Lucifer himself the remainder of your life – you are saved. Can I get an “amen”? How about a “preach it sister?” And in fact, it isn’t just a matter of “justification by faith alone” — it is also a matter of “sanctification by faith alone.” Jesus plus nothing. And if you do any works (absent denial that anything is/ was of yourself) …

well then … you have just put your entire eternal destiny at risk. Why? Because it’s all about “double imputation.” Yep, “the same gospel that justifies you, saves you” and be sure to “preach the gospel to yourself every day” and “we preach Christ crucified to both the lost and the saved”. Your sin is imputed to Christ and Christ’s righteousness is imputed to you. You have an “alien righteousness” – no righteousness of yourself. Now as for that “essential” and “non-essential” list, you can find that at 1 Peter 2: 5-12. (Not! Nowhere in the Bible is such a thing and the Protestant denominations themselves cannot agree about it.)

Protestants do not grasp the nuance that Catholics actually do believe in grace alone through faith alone with respect to our initial salvation/ justification/ baptism. What works can an infant or child possibly claim? None at all. It is for sanctification that Catholics believe in a “informed faith” – as in faith working through charity or James’ “faith without works is dead”. But that is probably too nuanced for many Protestants and it does not translate nicely into sound bites. And if you are a Pastor who earns his living as minister of the gospel, well, that is added incentive not to look too closely at Catholic doctrine. Just repeat the anti-Catholic rhetoric. No need to think about it or do any research!

Why? Because the truth of Catholicism can carry a hefty price tag – career, pastorate, family, friends, pension, benefits, reputation. Just ask any of the Protestant pastors, educators, scholars, TV hosts, writers, etc. who converted to Catholicism – what did your conversion cost you? Read some of the testimonies and conversion stories. And while we are asking questions, one might ask how well it pays to write anti-Catholic books, run an anti-Catholic apologetics group or ministry, etc. I hate to be cynical, but if a man’s pay check depends upon holding certain beliefs … he has great incentive to keep eyes closed.

But don’t ya know … it’s all for the good of “saving Catholic souls” … Alleluia! Amen!