Pentecostal View Towards Catholics?

[Lenten_ashes]

I was raised pentecostal and my family are still pentecostal. Both my brothers, their wives and parents as well as extended family. Quite a few pastors in the family including a brother, two cousins and my late grand father.

My experience is that most do not consider us Christian. I was raised that Catholics were not Christian. The belief is that we pray (read: worship) saints. We worship Mary. The Eucharist is sacrilege. We follow the Pope and not Jesus. Those are the big things that ensure we are not Christian.

I converted in 2009. At the time I got a very mixed response. No one was happy. Some refused to come to the Easter Vigil. Others came despite their opposition. The general belief at that point is that if I am Christian it is despite the fact that I am Catholic not because my Catholic faith is actually Christian. I think the hope was that they would ‘pray me out’. As the years have passed, that view has changed. Those who attended will now openly say that Catholics are Christian. My brother that was most strongly opposed (not the pastor interestingly) recently told me that whilst he “disagrees with a lot of the Catholic
doctrines, the Catholic Church does not deny the fundamentals and are Christian”. That is a huge change from 5 years ago when Catholics were not Christian and I was actively excluded from the religious discussions that the family had.

What I found interesting then, and still now, is that none of them have ever asked me why I converted. If they were converting to something they were taught, and believed, for a long time wasn’t Christian, I would wonder why. Yet no body ever asked.

Welcome home. The bolded part sounds a lot like my story.

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. It is interesting how we sometimes judge harshly the things we don’t understand. And we don’t ask questions about things we don’t understand. It’s easier to assume something and not have to actually LOVE each other! Love is not easy.

When I converted (from E-Free/Non-denom) my mother said, “…but we raised you Christian!” But that was the worst of everything. I think it was more intimidation than not believing Catholics were Christian. It’s also just plain not knowing about the faith.

I think if every Christian would simply go to Mass for several months, a whole lot of people would realize how Christ centered and Scripture filled the faith really is!

P.S. So why did you convert?

Absolutely. I was scripturally grounded and I see the Word all over the Mass and don’t get these folks who cant see it - they must not be looking, imo

 

[rcwitness]

Absolutely. I was scripturally grounded and I see the Word all over the Mass and don’t get these folks who cant see it - they must not be looking, imo

I think the mentality (which differs with each faith tradition) attempts to construct what they each see in the Gospel. The High Church folks have a sense of orthodoxy in sacramental grounded worship and relationship with Jesus. Low Church folks have a sense of genuineness in an organic approach to worship.

I think the key point is “worship”. How does a local Christian Church offer and participate in the Apostolic worship and Communion with Jesus and community?

Catholics profess a profound treasure in His Eucharist and Scripture Liturgy. Non-denoms profess a profound treasure in Bible preaching and worship music.

 

[rcwitness]

When I converted to the Catholic faith, I really didn’t believe I was “leaving” the Gospel faith I was raised with. I merely decided which tradition I believed had the most accurate and Apostolic communion with the Church established by Christ.

It becomes overwhelming, with anxieties, for those who have entrenched themselves in the customs and mentalities of their faith traditions, as opposed to being able to discern a line between customs and practices with Apostolic Truths and Traditions. I can listen to any number of preachers, and see good faith and insight in their faith. But I can also see where they apply their own concepts into their doctrines.

 

[Tablefor9]

Here we go again on your SS hobby horse.
It has NOTHING to do with SS. What the OP describes is not common to all Protestants and even all Pentecostals.

Perhaps it isn’t common in your experience; many here have experienced the opposite. No need to be condescending.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

When I converted to the Catholic faith, I really didn’t believe I was “leaving” the Gospel faith I was raised with. I merely decided which tradition I believed had the most accurate and Apostolic communion with the Church established by Christ.

It becomes overwhelming, with anxieties, for those who have entrenched themselves in the customs and mentalities of their faith traditions, as opposed to being able to discern a line between customs and practices with Apostolic Truths and Traditions. I can listen to any number of preachers, and see good faith and insight in their faith. But I can also see where they apply their own concepts into their doctrines.

Very well said.

Everyone has their own personal filter in which they interpret things. Of course made up of things such as educational level, overall background and life experiences. This is just one of the reasons I love the CC - no swaying back and forth based on whoever is in the pulpit that particular Sunday. I have a Bible and a Catechism and i know what’s true regardless of what the speaker thinks or says.

 

[57classic]

Very well said.

Everyone has their own personal filter in which they interpret things. Of course made up of things such as educational level, overall background and life experiences. This is just one of the reasons I love the CC - no swaying back and forth based on whoever is in the pulpit that particular Sunday. I have a Bible and a Catechism and i know what’s true regardless of what the speaker thinks or says.

This is what I don’t get. I don’t understand this need to reinvent the wheel 30,000+ times.

We have one church in our tiny town that has split 3 times over interpretations of something or other, seriously, what started out as one building and congregation is now 3 different buildings and congregations in a town of about 1000.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

This is what I don’t get. I don’t understand this need to reinvent the wheel 30,000+ times.

We have one church in our tiny town that has split 3 times over interpretations of something or other, seriously, what started out as one building and congregation is now 3 different buildings and congregations in a town of about 1000.

Gee wiz.

This is why I’m so critical of Sola Scriptra as it causes so much division.

Churches have split up because they could not agree on what color the draperies are supposed to be.

 

[PJM]

Last year I met a Pentecostal at my College. He was a nice guy, but one thing that has been stuck in my mind ever since was that he mentioned something along the lines (and I could be remembering here) that either he was a Christian or he said something that seemed to insinuate that Catholics aren’t Christians.

I’m more puzzled by the latter partial-memory of the conversation. Why do Pentecostals believe this if I understood him right and didn’t misremember the conversation?

THAT is their position

The FOUNDER of this FORUM authored a book WELL worth reading

“CATHOLICS & FUNDAMENTALISM” The ATTACK of Romanism"

I was able to Google it, it explain in great detail the WHYS and the facts:thumbsup:

I’m packing to relocate and my books are packed so I don’t have more information

GBY

 

[PJM]

I was raised pentecostal and my family are still pentecostal. Both my brothers, their wives and parents as well as extended family. Quite a few pastors in the family including a brother, two cousins and my late grand father.

My experience is that most do not consider us Christian. I was raised that Catholics were not Christian. The belief is that we pray (read: worship) saints. We worship Mary. The Eucharist is sacrilege. We follow the Pope and not Jesus. Those are the big things that ensure we are not Christian.

I converted in 2009. At the time I got a very mixed response. No one was happy. Some refused to come to the Easter Vigil. Others came despite their opposition. The general belief at that point is that if I am Christian it is despite the fact that I am Catholic not because my Catholic faith is actually Christian. I think the hope was that they would ‘pray me out’. As the years have passed, that view has changed. Those who attended will now openly say that Catholics are Christian. My brother that was most strongly opposed (not the pastor interestingly) recently told me that whilst he “disagrees with a lot of the Catholic
doctrines, the Catholic Church does not deny the fundamentals and are Christian”. That is a huge change from 5 years ago when Catholics were not Christian and I was actively excluded from the religious discussions that the family had.

What I found interesting then, and still now, is that none of them have ever asked me why I converted. If they were converting to something they were taught, and believed, for a long time wasn’t Christian, I would wonder why. Yet no body ever asked.

Our God works in Mysterious ways

So WHY did you convert?

Yours is an amazing story, thanks for sharing it!

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Welcome home. The bolded part sounds a lot like my story.

Absolutely. I was scripturally grounded and I see the Word all over the Mass and don’t get these folks who cant see it - they must not be looking, imo

GRACE is a GIFT OFFERED by God that can, and is too often refused.

Add to that, conversions are God’s exclusive domain. Yes, he may use us; but it is always the Holy Spirit, through grace that PERMITS right understanding.

Then consider that it is often easier to hate than to truly love; this hatred is mystifying though, as Pentecostals * proclaim to be a bible church; yet ignore the very foundational message of the bible itself;

Mt 5: 43-45
[43] You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy. [44] But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: [45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

Mt 19: 19
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mk 12: 30-31
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these

Lk 6:32
And if you love them that love you, what thanks are to you? for sinners also love those that love them.

John 15:12
This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you

John 15: 17
These things I command you, that you love one another

John 15: 19
If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world,** therefore the world hateth you**

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto YOU: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

2 John 1:5
And now I beseech thee, lady, not as writing a new commandment to thee, but that which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another

AND ALL THIS PLUS A GREAT DEAL MORE WITH THIS SAME MESSAGE IS NEGATED BY THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING; WHICH IT WOULD SEEM IS NECESSARY FOR THEM TO WARRANT THEIR OWN FAITH -BELIEFS

Rom 12:9
Let love be without dissimulation. Hating that which is evil, cleaving to that which is good.

My friend have you ever been exposed to the One Infallible Rule for right understanding of the Bible?

Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another Verse, passage or teaching:

Were this even the slightest possibility; [it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or learn Christ Faith”

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

2nd. Peter 3: 14-18
“Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen”

Our God is truly mysterious. HOW can these fundamental teachings about LOVE not be seen and understood.

MANY years ago when I was still teaching, I was asked to describe “the entire bile in a single word”; after reflection I choose the only word that I [Me] could think of: LOVE:heart:

God Bless you

Patrick*

 

[PJM]

When I converted to the Catholic faith, I really didn’t believe I was “leaving” the Gospel faith I was raised with. I merely decided which tradition I believed had the most accurate and Apostolic communion with the Church established by Christ.

It becomes overwhelming, with anxieties, for those who have entrenched themselves in the customs and mentalities of their faith traditions, as opposed to being able to discern a line between customs and practices with Apostolic Truths and Traditions. I can listen to any number of preachers, and see good faith and insight in their faith. But I can also see where they apply their own concepts into their doctrines.

Nicely done, thanks

PLEASE see my post #70

GBY

 

[PJM]

This is what I don’t get. I don’t understand this need to reinvent the wheel 30,000+ times.

We have one church in our tiny town that has split 3 times over interpretations of something or other, seriously, what started out as one building and congregation is now 3 different buildings and congregations in a town of about 1000.

WOW,

QUESTION: Can THIS be truly guided by the Holy Spirit?

Let US pray!

GBY

 

[Peebo]

Gee wiz.

This is why I’m so critical of Sola Scriptra as it causes so much division.

Churches have split up because they could not agree on what color the draperies are supposed to be.

When I was a Pentecostal I had a friend went to a Christian concert…he started to talk to the folk behind him…he was asked if he spoke in tongues…he said yes…they said that they didn’t associate with people who didn’t speak in tongues…and so they had started their own church because of that.

 

[benhur]

GRACE is a GIFT OFFERED by God that can, and is too often refused.

Add to that, conversions are God’s exclusive domain. Yes, he may use us; but it is always the Holy Spirit, through grace that PERMITS right understanding.

Then consider that it is often easier to hate than to truly love; this hatred is mystifying though, as Pentecostals * proclaim to be a bible church; yet ignore the very foundational message of the bible itself;

Mt 5: 43-45
[43] You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy. [44] But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: [45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

Mt 19: 19
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mk 12: 30-31
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these*

Lk 6:32
And if you love them that love you, what thanks are to you? for sinners also love those that love them.

John 15:12
This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you

John 15: 17
These things I command you, that you love one another

John 15: 19
If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world,** therefore the world hateth you**

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto YOU: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

2 John 1:5
And now I beseech thee, lady, not as writing a new commandment to thee, but that which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another

AND ALL THIS PLUS A GREAT DEAL MORE WITH THIS SAME MESSAGE IS NEGATED BY THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING; WHICH IT WOULD SEEM IS NECESSARY FOR THEM TO WARRANT THEIR OWN FAITH -BELIEFS

Rom 12:9
Let love be without dissimulation. Hating that which is evil, cleaving to that which is good.

My friend have you ever been exposed to the One Infallible Rule for right understanding of the Bible?

Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another Verse, passage or teaching:

Were this even the slightest possibility; [it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or learn Christ Faith”

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

2nd. Peter 3: 14-18
“Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen”

Our God is truly mysterious. HOW can these fundamental teachings about LOVE not be seen and understood.

MANY years ago when I was still teaching, I was asked to describe “the entire bile in a single word”; after reflection I choose the only word that I [Me] could think of: LOVE:heart:

God Bless you

PatrickAgree…God’s love letter to everyone…second best word to describe the bible is “Reconciliation”.

 

[rcwitness]

Agree…God’s love letter to everyone…second best word to describe the bible is “Reconciliation”.

The Bible is the Church determined body of writings which comprise God’s saving plan for mankind, throughout history. Reconciliation is Jesus’ merited offer to all those who, according to what He has made known to each, may or may not choose. Both pour from His love.

 

[PJM]

Agree…God’s love letter to everyone…second best word to describe the bible is “Reconciliation”.

Thanks!

GOD =agape Love!

GBY

 

[fhansen]

Last year I met a Pentecostal at my College. He was a nice guy, but one thing that has been stuck in my mind ever since was that he mentioned something along the lines (and I could be remembering here) that either he was a Christian or he said something that seemed to insinuate that Catholics aren’t Christians.

I’m more puzzled by the latter partial-memory of the conversation. Why do Pentecostals believe this if I understood him right and didn’t misremember the conversation?

When I attended an Assembly of God church it was believed there that Catholics were in great darkness.

 

[mattp0625]

OP-

Keep in mind the Pentecostal denomination did not exist until the early 20th century.

 

[PJM]

When I attended an Assembly of God church it was believed there that Catholics were in great darkness.

Isn’t it interesting that no matter what our faith-position is; we FIND [often create] something that to justify it

GBU

 

[fhansen]

Isn’t it interesting that no matter what our faith-position is; we FIND [often create] something that to justify it

GBU

Yes, it was just the old faith alone vs works-righteousness argument for the most part. And believing that the Church stood between man and God, interfering with direct relationship.