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Hisalone
Guest
The helper that Jesus sends is His Holy Spirit.
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H
Hisalone
Guest
You interpret the bible through your tradition making the bible subject to your tradition, making tradtion the final authority. Not so hard to understand really.
F
fbl9
Guest
You are correct.Those that set out the Traditions are the very ones who eat,slept and walked with our Lord before He was crucified by us(me and you Hisalone)
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ez3714
Guest
Tell me about it. Try being an old geezer who plays a 5-string bass that gets heavier with every song. If we didn’t believe in supernatural healing, I’d be a complete wreck!
T
tobinatorstark
Guest
The Holy Spirit is more than just a helper. I don’t know if your Pentecostal sect believe in the Trinity fully or not but I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit quite often and the Holy Spirit is much more than a helper
T
tobinatorstark
Guest
I am assuming you do believe in the trinity in its fullest
H
Hisalone
Guest
Define sect.
I agree the Holy Spirit is much more than a helper how could you even think pope when I said that.
T
tobinatorstark
Guest
When I mean sect, I mean the likes of Oneness Pentecostal, Holiness, Assembly of God among others. I will debate more with you later.
H
Hisalone
Guest
As you can see #2 is not all that nice to be called.
sect /sɛkt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sekt] Show IPA
–noun 1. a body of persons adhering to a particular religious faith; a religious denomination.
2. a group regarded as heretical or as deviating from a generally accepted religious tradition.
3. (in the sociology of religion) a Christian denomination characterized by insistence on strict qualifications for membership, as distinguished from the more inclusive groups called churches.
4. any group, party, or faction united by a specific doctrine or under a doctrinal leader.
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Hisalone
Guest
Oneness Pentacosals dont belive in the trinity.
Assembly of God do.
I am neither (nonDenom) we do believe in the trinity.
P
Pani_Rose
Guest
Holly,I don’t know. Maybe sola scriptura?
I just like the fact that their worship is so much more lively. But yet I also realize that they don’t have the Eucharist and that bothers me.
I think you would benefit from reading the Coming Home Network Forum chnetwork.org/forums/ from the Journey Home program on EWTN. See what the Protestants have to say about these subjects while they are journeying into the Catholic Church.
If you desire Pentecostal, well the Catholic Church is the largest Charismatic Church in the world. Seek out a Charismatic prayer group in your area. Find out what your own Church has to offer catholiccharismatic.us/ This is the link so the CCR forum, I think it will help you.
J
josie_L
Guest
The Relationship between Tradition and Sacred Scripture
80 Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing and move towards the same goal. Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own “always, to the close of the age.”
82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, “does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the Holy Scriptures alone.
Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.”
C
CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
You interpret the bible through your tradition.
My tradition started with Christ.
When did your tradition start?
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josie_L
Guest
Do you not have a pastor that helps you, does he not have some authority over you? Don’t you listen to what he has to say every Sunday? Why do you listen to him? Do you believe what he says? Why do you believe what he says? Have you ever disagreed with your Pastor or is he infallible?Are you kidding me?
All authority has been given to Jesus Christ who defeated sin and death. Jesus said when I leave I will send you another helper, not a pope, A helper.
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4Squarebaby
Guest
I play a Squire MB-4. It may not be the best but I can afford it and its light. I don’t play often enough, what hurts me is when I’m playing acoustic and doing all the fills during prayers since we don’t have a keyboard player.
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GraceDK
Guest
QUOTE:
And I will ask you something since you are so learned… what would you call the gifts of healing, knowing peoples hearts, prophesy, visions etc that occured in so many lives of saints?
Will you deny that these things have went on and still go on all over the place. I know more Catholics than I can count who speak in tongues but they need not show it infront of everyone.
The gifts of the Spirit are evidenced in the lives of Catholic saints.
The Church in Acts and 1. Corinthians dont resemble the Roman Catholic Church, eh?
Well tell me… where are your authorities in the Evangelical world? Does the absolute chaos in the Evangelical world perhaps resemble the councils in ACTS where Peter and the others spoke with authority in agreement with the Holy Spirit. Where are your councils? When Judas was dead another man was chosen in his place… ever thought of why?
In some Pentecostal churches I have been in there is no “breaking of bread on the first day of the week” like the original church did every sunday/ first day of the week. They only do it once in a while… and believe its a symbol which is a late invention-belief because its certainly not a Biblical belief.
Many places people speak in tongues during the service which was even warned against in Paul’s epistle.
Study early church history and you will find a Church that looked a lot like the synagoge… with liturgy, reading of Scripture, and breaking of bread… not like the show of charismatic gifts and music and a huge screen… like in modern American Pentecostalism.
You will find both, without the screen,
It sounds like you have a lot of problems with Pentacostalism, why the hate?
…I became a believer when Christ Jesus came to me and let the veil drop from my eyes. He immediately said: “Why do you (all of Christianity) divide yourselves under my Holy Name? I have given my shepherd-staff to Peter”. He also showed me that whoever eats His Flesh shall live by His Strength. This is the Reality in which most evangelicalism has lost faith, in contrast to those who wrote Scripture. And I have felt the power and the transformation of my own soul and body through His Body and Blood…
Do you claim your revealation of Christ is more real than mine?
*…
Are you now willing to give sources or are you another person with a lot of false statements who slanders his brethren on the basis of false and hollow products of subjective imagination? *
sources for what?
END QUOTE.
I don’t hate the Pentecostal tradition… and yes. A human tradition it is… I have many books written by Pentecostal ministers in my book shelves. One of my favourites being David du Plessis whom you really ought to read.
In fact the Pentecostals in my area are for the majority wonderful prayer warriors, humble people who listen and seek to serve God.
These are my friends and for a year I went to their services once or twice a week as well as their Bible study (never missing a Mass for it of course). These people were most honoured to have me among them and were not hiding it. They said: “The Catholics made this country Christian, we owe so much to you”.
So you are wrong. There is no hatred, but I do feel helpless in the face of backslandering Christians like you who don’t know what they are talking about. And believe me I have heard it from all sides. If you were a Catholic who spoke with the same amount of ignorance I would defend the Evangelicals to your face. My question is rather to you. Why the hatred? And why dont you listen and learn instead of saying your old mantras after they have been disproven repeatedly?
I too was Evangelical once but had to admit that Catholicism is the most original faith among all. I did this by a thorough study of Scripture, praying hard and being open to answers from the Holy Spirit, and reading documents from the earliest church history. I have studied these texts both inside and outside of Catholic context, since I studied them mainly in reformed text books at a Lutheran faculty.
I believe that through serious prayer and Scripture-study as well as a study of early Christian writings, you will arrive at the same conclusion.
Even the earliest fathers recognized that when people read Scripture without proper guidance all kinds of strange ideas come out of it. Its known that even Luther recognized the failure at his death bed… he had opened a can of worms in human pride… wanting to be his own Church and own infallible theologian in order to fool himself into thinking that even he, who had murdered a man in a duel, could have eternal life alone through his belief.
There is a reason why the apostle Paul so warns against scism…
As for sources… why don’t you comment eg. on the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, or maybe the desert fathers… whatever you prefer… I just would like to know how you fit it all into your 2009 Pentecostalism. My suspicion is that you havent got a clue about early Church history and therefore haven’t been able to make the logical conclusions…
Baruch Hashem.
Grace.
And I will ask you something since you are so learned… what would you call the gifts of healing, knowing peoples hearts, prophesy, visions etc that occured in so many lives of saints?
Will you deny that these things have went on and still go on all over the place. I know more Catholics than I can count who speak in tongues but they need not show it infront of everyone.
The gifts of the Spirit are evidenced in the lives of Catholic saints.
The Church in Acts and 1. Corinthians dont resemble the Roman Catholic Church, eh?
Well tell me… where are your authorities in the Evangelical world? Does the absolute chaos in the Evangelical world perhaps resemble the councils in ACTS where Peter and the others spoke with authority in agreement with the Holy Spirit. Where are your councils? When Judas was dead another man was chosen in his place… ever thought of why?
In some Pentecostal churches I have been in there is no “breaking of bread on the first day of the week” like the original church did every sunday/ first day of the week. They only do it once in a while… and believe its a symbol which is a late invention-belief because its certainly not a Biblical belief.
Many places people speak in tongues during the service which was even warned against in Paul’s epistle.
Study early church history and you will find a Church that looked a lot like the synagoge… with liturgy, reading of Scripture, and breaking of bread… not like the show of charismatic gifts and music and a huge screen… like in modern American Pentecostalism.
You will find both, without the screen,
It sounds like you have a lot of problems with Pentacostalism, why the hate?
…I became a believer when Christ Jesus came to me and let the veil drop from my eyes. He immediately said: “Why do you (all of Christianity) divide yourselves under my Holy Name? I have given my shepherd-staff to Peter”. He also showed me that whoever eats His Flesh shall live by His Strength. This is the Reality in which most evangelicalism has lost faith, in contrast to those who wrote Scripture. And I have felt the power and the transformation of my own soul and body through His Body and Blood…
Do you claim your revealation of Christ is more real than mine?
*…
Are you now willing to give sources or are you another person with a lot of false statements who slanders his brethren on the basis of false and hollow products of subjective imagination? *
sources for what?
END QUOTE.
I don’t hate the Pentecostal tradition… and yes. A human tradition it is… I have many books written by Pentecostal ministers in my book shelves. One of my favourites being David du Plessis whom you really ought to read.
In fact the Pentecostals in my area are for the majority wonderful prayer warriors, humble people who listen and seek to serve God.
These are my friends and for a year I went to their services once or twice a week as well as their Bible study (never missing a Mass for it of course). These people were most honoured to have me among them and were not hiding it. They said: “The Catholics made this country Christian, we owe so much to you”.
So you are wrong. There is no hatred, but I do feel helpless in the face of backslandering Christians like you who don’t know what they are talking about. And believe me I have heard it from all sides. If you were a Catholic who spoke with the same amount of ignorance I would defend the Evangelicals to your face. My question is rather to you. Why the hatred? And why dont you listen and learn instead of saying your old mantras after they have been disproven repeatedly?
I too was Evangelical once but had to admit that Catholicism is the most original faith among all. I did this by a thorough study of Scripture, praying hard and being open to answers from the Holy Spirit, and reading documents from the earliest church history. I have studied these texts both inside and outside of Catholic context, since I studied them mainly in reformed text books at a Lutheran faculty.
I believe that through serious prayer and Scripture-study as well as a study of early Christian writings, you will arrive at the same conclusion.
Even the earliest fathers recognized that when people read Scripture without proper guidance all kinds of strange ideas come out of it. Its known that even Luther recognized the failure at his death bed… he had opened a can of worms in human pride… wanting to be his own Church and own infallible theologian in order to fool himself into thinking that even he, who had murdered a man in a duel, could have eternal life alone through his belief.
There is a reason why the apostle Paul so warns against scism…
As for sources… why don’t you comment eg. on the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, or maybe the desert fathers… whatever you prefer… I just would like to know how you fit it all into your 2009 Pentecostalism. My suspicion is that you havent got a clue about early Church history and therefore haven’t been able to make the logical conclusions…
Baruch Hashem.
Grace.
T
tobinatorstark
Guest
Thanks for clearing that up
T
tobinatorstark
Guest
I don’t hold you to number 2, nor do I consider that when referring to your specific group of Pentecostalism.
H
Hisalone
Guest
Thanks:thumbsup:
H
Hisalone
Guest
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