B
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes.Well feeling love for God makes willing perfect contrition easier…
Just keep in mind though that grace and will is essential. Feelings are not.
O
opusAquinas
Guest
People are not often perfectly contrite to others.
I can see that now as possible. People often do not feel real sorrow.
*1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. **Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.”**50 (431)
1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51 (1822)
1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52*
You feel sorrow because you “know” God is “all good and worthy of all ones love”? Even though you do not feel love for God.
So perfect contrition is feeling sorrow because you offend God because you want to do whatever God wants and not what anyone else wants. And you did not do what God wanted thus you offended God.
I assume sorrow can only be felt like anger is felt. So one must feel sorrow.
Though love does not need to be felt but makes it easier. Love requires wanting and acting for the good of the other as other. And that definition does not require the feeling of love.
So love depends on the relationship with the beloved. The kind of love depends on the requirements of the relationship and the duties depend on the kind of love. A person may require perfect contrition from another person but we must forgive no matter what as God commanded.
I can see that now as possible. People often do not feel real sorrow.
*1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. **Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.”**50 (431)
1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51 (1822)
1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52*
You feel sorrow because you “know” God is “all good and worthy of all ones love”? Even though you do not feel love for God.
So perfect contrition is feeling sorrow because you offend God because you want to do whatever God wants and not what anyone else wants. And you did not do what God wanted thus you offended God.
I assume sorrow can only be felt like anger is felt. So one must feel sorrow.
Though love does not need to be felt but makes it easier. Love requires wanting and acting for the good of the other as other. And that definition does not require the feeling of love.
So love depends on the relationship with the beloved. The kind of love depends on the requirements of the relationship and the duties depend on the kind of love. A person may require perfect contrition from another person but we must forgive no matter what as God commanded.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Perfect contrition is a term in theology that applies to a kind persons contrition toward God. Not about persons towards other persons.People are not often perfectly contrite to others.
.
O
opusAquinas
Guest
You can feel sorrow because you’ve offended the person because you simply love them. But I don’t think this happens often.Perfect contrition is a term in theology that applies to a kind persons contrition toward God. Not about persons towards other persons.
B
Bookcat
Guest
“When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else”You-] feel/-] (with grace) - will- sorrow because you “know” God is “all good and worthy of all ones love”? Even though you do not feel love for God.
B
Bookcat
Guest
No. Again feelings may not enter into things. We do not have a despotic control over feelings but only a diplomatic (as St. Thomas notes).I assume sorrow can only be felt like anger is felt. So one must feel sorrow.
.
Do not get thrown off by the word “sorrow”. Such is not meaning there “of emotion” per se. But of will.
O
opusAquinas
Guest
So you don’t even need to feel sorrow? But with grace one can feel sorrow.“When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else”
B
Bookcat
Guest
One does not need to “feel” sorrow in order to have sorrow.So you don’t even need to feel sorrow?
See post just above.
Perfect contrition can yes involve sorrow of feelings too - that is very good. But it is not needed.
O
opusAquinas
Guest
Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.”50 (431)One does not need to “feel” sorrow in order to have sorrow.
See post just above.
It is sorrow of the soul. Detestation for the sin committed. So one need not feel anything. So detestation is not an emotion?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Correct.Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.”50 (431)
It is sorrow of the soul. Detestation for the sin committed. So one need not feel anything. So detestation is not an emotion?
Correct.
(though it can include emotion as I noted…that is quite good)
O
opusAquinas
Guest
So the experience of perfect contrition would be:
St. Peter:
“I know I should have done what you wanted and commanded but I did not do it. I know you are the Son of God and I know you said not to deny you or you would deny me to the Father. I disobeyed you. I offended you. So I will, by grace, to be sorry for the wrong I did to offend you because you are all good and deserve my total obedience.”
Then perfect contrition is not rare.
St. Peter:
“I know I should have done what you wanted and commanded but I did not do it. I know you are the Son of God and I know you said not to deny you or you would deny me to the Father. I disobeyed you. I offended you. So I will, by grace, to be sorry for the wrong I did to offend you because you are all good and deserve my total obedience.”
Then perfect contrition is not rare.
B
Bookcat
Guest
“When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else” etc.So the experience of perfect contrition would be
There could be all sorts of examples. And there can be lesser motives that co-exist with it.
But God of course knows when or when we do not have the grace of perfect contrition. We are not the best judge in our own case here…God is.
Hence - together with with seeking to have perfect contrition - if one has fallen into a mortal sin one runs to confession… for confession - “imperfect contrition” suffices (and even if one does have perfect contrition before going to Confession - such includes the resolution to get to confession as soon as possible).
B
Bookcat
Guest
Note it is not about “sorrow of feelings”.Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.”50 (431)
It is sorrow of the soul. Detestation for the sin committed. So one need not feel anything. So detestation is not an emotion?
But “sorrow of soul”.
Do not let the phrase “sorrow soul” throw you off…for such is not about ‘soul music’ where feelings are necessarily greatly involved…
Such involves rather the* will* as essential (and grace).
And detestation of will…
O
opusAquinas
Guest
So the experience of perfect contrition would be:Note it is not about “sorrow of feelings”.
Do not let the phrase “sorrow soul” throw you off…for such is not about ‘soul music’ where feelings are necessarily greatly involved…
Such involves rather the* will* as essential (and grace).
And detestation of will…
St. Peter:
“I know I should have done what you wanted and commanded but I did not do it. I know you are the Son of God and I know you said not to deny you or you would deny me to the Father. I disobeyed you. I offended you. So I will, by grace, to be sorry for the wrong I did to offend you because you are all good and deserve my total obedience.”
Then perfect contrition is not rare.
Soul. A stirring in the soul like the prayer of union.
B
Bookcat
Guest
No.Soul. A stirring in the soul like the prayer of union.
B
Bookcat
Guest
It is difficult for another person to point to someones act of contrition and say “that was perfect contrition”.So the experience of perfect contrition would be:
.
The person may not really be making the act out of the right motive rather for other motives. It may be that it was really an act of imperfect contrition. God though can judge.
And we ought to seek to make acts of perfect contrition ourselves…
O
opusAquinas
Guest
I think then that hatred of God does not require the feeling but it often accompanies it.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes.I think then that hatred of God does not require the feeling but it often accompanies it.
O
opusAquinas
Guest
The point is that perfect contrition would be the same. I know my contrition you know yours and only God can judge. Yes.It is difficult for another person to point to someones act of contrition and say “that was perfect contrition”.
The person may not really be making the act out of the right motive rather for other motives. It may be that it was really an act of imperfect contrition. God though can judge.
And we ought to seek to make acts of perfect contrition ourselves…
- Status
- Not open for further replies.