Perhaps my time here is over

[HashemEchad]

I agree with you completely, the more of us that were picked off and banned from the board we were hanging out at, the stronger my faith became, except for one member that opted to just leave, I was the very last Catholic that posted at that board in defense to our faith and to the church. At that point, I knew my place was with other Catholics and sympathetic individuals that were not trying to bash my faith such as yourself. I’ll even welcome company with a muslem that holds respect for my faith over that group that attacked me and the others, for at least we can clearly see our religions are very much different and know that it’s respectful to set boundries as to our discussion. The protestants have not shown me respect in this regards as to the boundries and trampled all over them. It was they that initiated it and at this point, I’d rather wash my hands of them.

That all to the side, and a little off topic, but since you are Jewish, what are your views of the Kabala? A long time ago I studied a little bit on that element, is this something that’s accepted and practiced by all mainstream Jews or just a few odd particular sects, I know it’s expressed only to be done by the male members of the religion? From what I studied, it very much bordered witchcraft, or at least it seemed to have that tone to it, I remember with one of these elements, how they were able to form a human shaped being out of clay and some how breath life into it in order to run errands for it’s maker. Really weird stuff there, I’d like to hear your (name removed by moderator)ut on it.

I believe in Kaballah, it is the mystical part of Judaism. The Jews who are mostly into it are the Chasidic Jews. I’m not one, but I hang out with them, so to speak.

I just want to clarify that what Madonna is into is NOT genuine Kabalah. If you want to learn more about authentic Kabalah, this site will help: koshertorah.com

 

[Righteousone]

Except when I have Christians confronting me for conversionary purposes, or when I am working with Jewish kids ensnared in cults, etc., Christianity really never enters my mind much.

In fact, I was not even aware, a few Sundays ago, that it was Palm Sunday, since the only calendars I have in my home are Jewish religious calendars that show only Jewish and American holidays. And living in a very Jewish community as I do, I have found both Easter and Christmas bypass us without me even realizing what day it was.

So no, I do not spend my time fighting Christianity unless Christians are “in your face” to me about it.

I know a lot of Jews who DO in fact celebrate Easter AND Christmas and love doing so. Even if their message of these two Catholic holidays is not the right one. For years and years Jews never even cared about if it was Catholic or not. Everyone got along. No one complained. My best friend is Jewish, she comes over every Christmas Eve and gets upset if she has to work, (she’s a flight attendant).
I don’t believe every Christmas or Easter you simply “forget” it is a holiday when it is in your face as well as every one else’s to remind them of the season.
JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON.

 

[Kaninchen]

One thing that experience of internet discussion teaches is that one should never be without a generous supply of apocryphal friends!

 

[Catherine_S]

I believe in Kaballah, it is the mystical part of Judaism. The Jews who are mostly into it are the Chasidic Jews. I’m not one, but I hang out with them, so to speak.

I just want to clarify that what Madonna is into is NOT genuine Kabalah. If you want to learn more about authentic Kabalah, this site will help: koshertorah.com

*Thank you for this website Hashem! *
*I am a Catholic Christain but I certainly enjoyed this lesson on Amos! *
However, God’s judgement is not just on the Jews alone.

*How To Recognize *
***A Divine Warning! ***
Based on Amos 3
http://www.koshertorah.com

The mystics had/have the wisdom we all need regardless of* what door** they used to enter Truth!*
.

 

[HashemEchad]

I know a lot of Jews who DO in fact celebrate Easter AND Christmas and love doing so. Even if their message of these two Catholic holidays is not the right one. For years and years Jews never even cared about if it was Catholic or not. Everyone got along. No one complained. My best friend is Jewish, she comes over every Christmas Eve and gets upset if she has to work, (she’s a flight attendant).
I don’t believe every Christmas or Easter you simply “forget” it is a holiday when it is in your face as well as every one else’s to remind them of the season.
JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON.

Well, I happen to live in a very Orthodox Jewish community, even though I am not as strictly observant as most of the people here are. It is a very insular community, that keeps to themselves.

Since there are hardly any nonJews that live in this area, you never see Christmas or Easter decorations in peoples’ windows. Its VERY easy, when you are an ultraOrthodox or Chasidic Jew, to forget it is Christmas or Easter. The Jewish calendar is overloaded with holydays of our own that must usually be strictly observed, and there are also numerous minor holydays, fast days, etc When you are busy observing your own numerous holydays, its actually very easy to have days like Easter, Palm Sunday, etc bypass you without even realizing it.

My husband is a former Protestant who converted to Judaism, and even though we do not celebrate Easter, he does like to bring a plant to his mom on the holiday, because Easter is important to her. Yet there were a couple of years when we BOTH forgot, because Passover happened around the same time and we were occupied with getting ready for it.

As for your friends who you say were Jewish but who celebrated Christmas and Easter, I am sure they observed it in a secular, not religious way. And they were most likely not Orthodox Jews, either. I do not know any Orthodox Jews who celebrate any nonJewish holiday in any way, shape or form. Orthodox Jews do not even let their kids go out for Halloween because it stems from a pagan holiday.

 

[Catholic_Mike]

No. It is not about seeking God. We have already been introduced to God. He has revealed Himself to us.

By “seeking” I meant getting and being close to Him, learning about Him, doing His will, all that. Maybe it was an excessively shorthanded term to use.

 

[HashemEchad]

By “seeking” I meant getting and being close to Him, learning about Him, doing His will, all that. Maybe it was an excessively shorthanded term to use.

Jews are like Catholics and Protestants, in the sense that we have members who do not have a personal relationship with God and just go through the religious motions, and then we have those who DO have a personal walk with God, and live their lives accordingly.

And then, just like with Catholics and Protestants, we have our members who are not religious at all.

 

[Righteousone]

Well, I happen to live in a very Orthodox Jewish community, even though I am not as strictly observant as most of the people here are. It is a very insular community, that keeps to themselves.

Since there are hardly any nonJews that live in this area, you never see Christmas or Easter decorations in peoples’ windows. Its VERY easy, when you are an ultraOrthodox or Chasidic Jew, to forget it is Christmas or Easter. The Jewish calendar is overloaded with holydays of our own that must usually be strictly observed, and there are also numerous minor holydays, fast days, etc When you are busy observing your own numerous holydays, its actually very easy to have days like Easter, Palm Sunday, etc bypass you without even realizing it.

My husband is a former Protestant who converted to Judaism, and even though we do not celebrate Easter, he does like to bring a plant to his mom on the holiday, because Easter is important to her. Yet there were a couple of years when we BOTH forgot, because Passover happened around the same time and we were occupied with getting ready for it.

As for your friends who you say were Jewish but who celebrated Christmas and Easter, I am sure they observed it in a secular, not religious way. And they were most likely not Orthodox Jews, either. I do not know any Orthodox Jews who celebrate any nonJewish holiday in any way, shape or form. Orthodox Jews do not even let their kids go out for Halloween because it stems from a pagan holiday.

How does a Protestant who loves Jesus christ and believed Him as his Lord and Savior, convert to Judiasm rejecting Christ?? I mean no disrespect, but how does this happen? Does he think Jesus does not exist as all Jews think so? I mean after his testimony, and learning about Christ did your husband just suddenly shrug him off?
I am very curious how one can go to believing in Christ, then rejecting him.

 

[HashemEchad]

How does a Protestant who loves Jesus christ and believed Him as his Lord and Savior, convert to Judiasm rejecting Christ?? I mean no disrespect, but how does this happen? Does he think Jesus does not exist as all Jews think so? I mean after his testimony, and learning about Christ did your husband just suddenly shrug him off?
I am very curious how one can go to believing in Christ, then rejecting him.

It happens all the time, actually. My husband grew up an independent Baptist, in Maine. He wasn’t one of those “I used to be on drugs and now I’m saved” types…he had been raised a Christian. But he did have a belief in Jesus…when I met him, he was fresh out of the Navy where he had also belonged to groups called The Fellowship of Christian Athletes and the Christian Military Fellowship.

His conversion to Judaism was gradual, over a number of years…I do remember that he tried various churches other than the one he grew up in…like the 7th Day Adventists, Assembly of YHWH and others. It seemed, in retrospect, that he was veering toward churches that had Jewish overtones (such as the ones I named above.) I guess it was just a matter of time before he wanted to become Jewish.

He developed a deep love for the Jewish people, and things Jewish, ironically, due to his years of Old Testament Bible study in churches. I think it just went from “I love the Jewish people because they gave us the Messiah”, to “I want to actually BE a Jew”.

He’s not the only Christian to convert to Judaism, there have been many. My own mother was one, many years ago.

 

[Righteousone]

It happens all the time, actually. My husband grew up an independent Baptist, in Maine. He wasn’t one of those “I used to be on drugs and now I’m saved” types…he had been raised a Christian. But he did have a belief in Jesus…when I met him, he was fresh out of the Navy where he had also belonged to groups called The Fellowship of Christian Athletes and the Christian Military Fellowship.

His conversion to Judaism was gradual, over a number of years…I do remember that he tried various churches other than the one he grew up in…like the 7th Day Adventists, Assembly of YHWH and others. It seemed, in retrospect, that he was veering toward churches that had Jewish overtones (such as the ones I named above.) I guess it was just a matter of time before he wanted to become Jewish.

He developed a deep love for the Jewish people, and things Jewish, ironically, due to his years of Old Testament Bible study in churches. I think it just went from “I love the Jewish people because they gave us the Messiah”, to “I want to actually BE a Jew”.

He’s not the only Christian to convert to Judaism, there have been many. My own mother was one, many years ago.

Loving the Jewish people because “they gave us the Messiah” is actually not correct. Jesus Christ gave us himself. Jews rejected him, didn’t think he was the Messiah at all and still don’t.
The OT prophets foreseen Christ years becore he came to be. Other than that, it sounds more likeyour making the Jews out to be high and mighty for “worshipping” one of them.
Still confuses me that if he loved the Jewish people for giving us the Messiah as what you say, then he believed Christ WAS the Messiah, yet he still chose to convert and deny him??

 

[Brian_Millar]

Honestly, I doubt his faith in Christ was genuine at all, it’s inconceivable that someone that truely believes in him would just decide one day to no longer do so. There are people that have undergone great tragedies that would reject God due to them, but they still would not deny he exists, is the closest scenereo I can think of.

With the church hopping, I’ve done that before, mainly due to my thirst for knowledge about God and my hunger to grow spiritually and be closer to him. That was my motivation to entertain different denominations, I think in his case though, that really wasn’t the case, he was looking for something that suits his personal tastes better, looking for that designer service, or religion he felt to be easier for him to handle.

It’s written that the unforgivable sin would be to turn away from Christ, that returning to him would be crucifing him twice. I pray your husband’s faith was never in tact in the first place and that he did not commit that sin, for the consequences are dire.

 

[Catholic_Mike]

Jews are like Catholics and Protestants, in the sense that we have members who do not have a personal relationship with God and just go through the religious motions, and then we have those who DO have a personal walk with God, and live their lives accordingly.

And then, just like with Catholics and Protestants, we have our members who are not religious at all.

Sure thing, although I think Jewishness has more dimensions to it whereas Catholicism is pretty much just a religious belief. There are mild cultural elements there too, I guess but not heredity and all that.

Anyway none of this digression changes my main points about conversions so I guess I might be done with the thread.

 

[HashemEchad]

Honestly, I doubt his faith in Christ was genuine at all, it’s inconceivable that someone that truely believes in him would just decide one day to no longer do so. There are people that have undergone great tragedies that would reject God due to them, but they still would not deny he exists, is the closest scenereo I can think of.

With the church hopping, I’ve done that before, mainly due to my thirst for knowledge about God and my hunger to grow spiritually and be closer to him. That was my motivation to entertain different denominations, I think in his case though, that really wasn’t the case, he was looking for something that suits his personal tastes better, looking for that designer service, or religion he felt to be easier for him to handle.

It’s written that the unforgivable sin would be to turn away from Christ, that returning to him would be crucifing him twice. I pray your husband’s faith was never in tact in the first place and that he did not commit that sin, for the consequences are dire.

I’d think God would be a better judge of the state of my husband’s soul than you, don’t you think?

I don’t know if he truly believed in Jesus or not. He sure seemed to, from my POV. But I have known many former Christians who have converted to Judaism (being married to a convert tends to bring you in contact with many like-minded souls).

Why did he convert? It was a very gradual thing, actually. He found that the more he studied the NT and the OT, the more contradictions he saw. He also took up the study of Hebrew (so he could read the OT in the original language; he already was well-versed in NT Greek)…he just began to see glaring contradictions and could not find any answers, even though he consulted various pastors and theologians, and prayed about it often. It was a very tortured experience for him, because he had to confront the possibility that what he’d always believed might not be true.

But my husband never rejected GOD. He rejected JESUS. Remember that to Jews, they are not one and the same.

 

[MrS]

Why did he convert? It was a very gradual thing, actually. He found that the more he studied the NT and the OT, the more contradictions he saw. He also took up the study of Hebrew (so he could read the OT in the original language; he already was well-versed in NT Greek)…he just began to see glaring contradictions and could not find any answers, even though he consulted various pastors and theologians, and prayed about it often. It was a very tortured experience for him, because he had to confront the possibility that what he’d always believed might not be true.

But my husband never rejected GOD. He rejected JESUS. Remember that to Jews, they are not one and the same.

Perhaps you or your husband would like to start a thread for these contradictions you say “he saw”. Or perhaps he would be open to discuss them, and perhaps find some answers…and then confirm his position.

You owe him that much, don’t you think?

.

 

[HashemEchad]

Perhaps you or your husband would like to start a thread for these contradictions you say “he saw”. Or perhaps he would be open to discuss them, and perhaps find some answers…and then confirm his position.

You owe him that much, don’t you think?

.

One thing I have learned in the short time I’ve been here: when I as a Jew RESPOND to requests BY OTHERS to explain WHY Jews do not accept Jesus, it usually turns into accusations that I am “attacking Christianity”, when all I’m trying to do is answer what someone else asked about my beliefs.

The contradictions he found are most likely included in the listings of OT/NT contradictions found on the various polemical websites available online.

And since my husband is not on this forum (he actually does not spend time online because he is too busy), I doubt he could either.

 

[Tracy07]

I only found this forum a few days ago, while doing an online Google for customs and legends surrounding Holy Week (I was looking up something my late mother had told me years ago).

That online search led me to this forum, where there was a thread about the subject I was researching.

I have to say that, until I came here, I had never once in my 48 yrs had a Roman Catholic proselytize me. That was a major reason why I have always felt far closer to Catholics than to Protestant fundamentalists (many of whom have disgusted me with their blatant attempts to proselytize me, including a “born again” nurse who had the nerve to try to missionize me in the hospital room where my mother lay terminally ill.)

I really thought Catholics were different, nicer, more respectful of the beliefs of others (at least in more modern times, anyway). And with many of you, that is the case.

What Christians don’t realize is, when you shove your beliefs onto others even after they clearly inform you they are not interested (and in fact, can adequately show why they don’t believe in your faith), you really turn people off.

I have worked with devout Catholics in both the pro-life and homeschool communities, and we have always gotten along so well. We have found much common ground on moral issues. And none have ever tried to proselytize me.

I find I am feeling differently about Catholics since being here, and I don’t like it. I want to believe that (most) Catholics are truly decent people who learned their lessons from the days of the Inquisition, and who believe in the American princple of respect for the religions of others.

But I think for me to return to the feelings I had previously, I need to leave this forum. I wish that were not true, but it seems it is.

I have been a countermissionary for almost 30 years. This means I have done volunteer work to get impressionable young Jews out of cults, and yes, out of mainstream Christian and other non-Jewish groups as well. We have had a very high success rate.

But I am also active in the ecumenical mvmt, which means I work to try to find common ground between Jews and Christians. Because of this, I work to help Jews understand Christianity, and to help Christians understand Judaism. There is too much hate and bigotry on BOTH sides, and I work to help end this.

But it won’t end until the “my religion is better than yours” business stops. I doubt that will happen any time soon here, so I have to say Shalom to you all.

Shalom aleichem/pax vobiscum,

Carol’s Daughter

I am sorry you feel the need to leave but if you feel it is best for you then it probably is.
Please dont generalise all catholic people into one box though often you get the wrong impression of someone on a forum or just over a computer.
Take time to speak to people in person and ask questions maybe this way you will get more answers and perhaps more understanding everyones views are different and everyone thinks that their religion is best regardless of the people or the religion, of course you are going to defend your religion with every fibre of your being if you didnt believe your religion was the best then you surely wouldnt follow that religion.
That said it is every religion and faith that has that view point i should imagine not just catholics.
It doesnt stop someone respecting others views and religions however, well it shouldnt do anyway.
I hope you find the answers to any other questions you have whether that be here or elsewhere.
God bless
x

 

[MrS]

One thing I have learned in the short time I’ve been here: when I as a Jew RESPOND to requests BY OTHERS to explain WHY Jews do not accept Jesus, it usually turns into accusations that I am “attacking Christianity”, when all I’m trying to do is answer what someone else asked about my beliefs.

The contradictions he found are most likely included in the listings of OT/NT contradictions found on the various polemical websites available online.

And since my husband is not on this forum (he actually does not spend time online because he is too busy), I doubt he could either.

Sorry…just asking. I guess I made the mistake of thinking that he would have some time to present his case if he spent so much time investigating what you referred to as so many contradictions.

 

[Lapell]

How does a Protestant who loves Jesus christ and believed Him as his Lord and Savior, convert to Judiasm rejecting Christ?? I mean no disrespect, but how does this happen? Does he think Jesus does not exist as all Jews think so? I mean after his testimony, and learning about Christ did your husband just suddenly shrug him off?
I am very curious how one can go to believing in Christ, then rejecting him.

Maybe his/her view of Christ doesn’t include His being the Lamb of God who comes to take away the sin of the world, maybe some essential aspects of Him didn’t especially struck him/her.
Or maybe the people in his/her church were too rigid, too prejudiced against strangers of other countries or colour of skin or whatever…

 

[Valke2]

Maybe the truth he saw in Judaism outweighed the truth he found in Christianity.

 

[LaMar]

How does a Protestant who loves Jesus christ and believed Him as his Lord and Savior, convert to Judiasm rejecting Christ?? I mean no disrespect, but how does this happen? Does he think Jesus does not exist as all Jews think so? I mean after his testimony, and learning about Christ did your husband just suddenly shrug him off?
I am very curious how one can go to believing in Christ, then rejecting him.

You’re operating under the assumption that Judaism is opposed to Catholicism, or other forms of Christianity. It isn’t.

These are entirely different traditions which don’t oppose one another. Rational Jews and Christians don’t fight back and forth, or get in each others’ way. They run parallel toward the same objective.

You could leave Catholicism today, and go convert to Judaism. Your lifestyle wouldn’t have to change very much and you wouldn’t be required to be negative toward Christianity.

You’d listen to prayers in Hebrew rather than Latin, invoking the name of the same G-d, and you’d tell folk tales about the same heroes (for the most part) who did the same things. You might have to abstain from bacon, if you wanted to be extra devout. Similar processes would apply for Islam, Mormonism, etc. The differences are in the trappings, not the fundamentals.