Perhaps my time here is over

[LaMar]

God commanded it, I believe it, that settles it! I’n also an animal lover, but if God commands something, that to me is entirely different.

What God created, He can authorize that we destroy if it honors him.

He also created Jesus, yet Christians believe that Jesus was sacrificed for their sins. How is that different? Was it not also cruel for Jesus to die?

Many in modern society don’t realize that a sacrificed animal was generally a donation of food. It either went to the people who spent all day performing religious services (a priest class) or to the poor who couldn’t afford to eat otherwise.

Certainly, some believe that what goes on in the most sanitary American slaughterhouses is cruel. In many cases they have valid points. The fact remains that human beings are part of the animal kingdom, and our species derives part of its nourishment from killing other animals and eating their flesh. An animal sacrifice, while it might offend our sensibilities, isn’t all that different in substance from a trip to the supermarket where we can examine cuts of meat. We don’t like to think about it, but most of us are about to go home and feast on animals that someone killed and cut up.

 

[Brian_Millar]

The perspective from the Christian OT, the animals were burnt to ashes, the blood was spilled, it was sacrelige to desecrate it by feasting on it, now if what you are saying is true, it’s not sacrificing at all, it’s simply slaughtering, butchering and dividing up the portions, not a real sacrifice at all.

 

[Valke2]

Many in modern society don’t realize that a sacrificed animal was generally a donation of food. It either went to the people who spent all day performing religious services (a priest class) or to the poor who couldn’t afford to eat otherwise.

Also a portion often went to the person who offered the sacrifice.

BTW, there is not complete agreement among Jewish authorities as to whether sacrifices will be reinstated when the Temple is rebuilt. Rambam himself was iffy on the subject.

 

[Icemoon]

Actually I think at least some Jews do believe there will be a resurrection at the end of time. But otherwise, if we make all kinds of efforts in this life for the sake of God just to end up dying just like the rest of mankind, if there were nothing after this, wouldn’t that be absurd? You find it weird? Just think about it…

The resurrection is an article of faith by Rambam.

 

[Icemoon]

The perspective from the Christian OT, the animals were burnt to ashes, the blood was spilled, it was sacrelige to desecrate it by feasting on it, now if what you are saying is true, it’s not sacrificing at all, it’s simply slaughtering, butchering and dividing up the portions, not a real sacrifice at all.

Actually Muslims are proving your narrow worldview wrong.

From the Islam body in my country:muis.gov.sg/eservices/faqs/smartsearch.asp?strItemChoice=2005329125753&action=SHOWTOPICS&strSubItemChoice=2005329125811&m_strTopicSysID=200732716341

Korban has to be done on Eid-ul-Adha or during the 3 days after it. Its main purpose is to make oneself closer to Allah by giving the sacrificial meat to the poor and needy as well as to family, relatives and friends. The Prophet s.a.w said: “None of you should offer sacrifice of animals until he has completed the (Eid) prayer”.

So why cant sacrificing and diving the portions go together?

 

[Brian_Millar]

I look to Able and Cain as to the ones first displaying sacrifices, they took the cream of their crops/herds and obliderated them by burning them up, rendering them useless to man, the meaning behind this is that they were willing to give it up in it’s entirety out of obediance, for they “sacrificed” and if you put it in that context, it means to do without, even to this day.

I do have to point out though, Jesus sacrificed himself and did a symbolic gesture at the last supper, this was indeed, distributing his body and blood, the same custom as you mention, so keeping strictly within that context, the tradition would be the same as what is proposed with the original argument, and perhaps it was more out of tradition within the jewish faith then anything else in this case. So, I can see both sides of the coin here guys.

Also, please don’t reference the quoran to me, I care not to even look at that book, nor do I place it as any kind of an authority, I can discuss this stuff with the Jews because they use the same OT, but that’s as far as I can take it, the quoran and the bible, both the jewish and christian one do not mix at all.

 

[Icemoon]

Also, please don’t reference the quoran to me, I care not to even look at that book, nor do I place it as any kind of an authority, I can discuss this stuff with the Jews because they use the same OT, but that’s as far as I can take it, the quoran and the bible, both the jewish and christian one do not mix at all.

If you are sharp, you will spot the keyword - korban. On the issue of korban, the Qu’ran is backing up the Jewish view that it is not illogical for a sacrifice to be divided among the people to be eaten.

I’m too lazy to dig through the Pentateuch but I believe you are confused over the different types of sacrifice. There is the burnt offering, the sin sacrifice etc.

 

[Icemoon]

I do have to point out though, Jesus sacrificed himself and did a symbolic gesture at the last supper, this was indeed, distributing his body and blood, the same custom as you mention, so keeping strictly within that context, the tradition would be the same as what is proposed with the original argument, and perhaps it was more out of tradition within the jewish faith then anything else in this case.

Can Jews eat blood?

 

[Mighty_Q]

Can Jews eat blood?

I tend to drink my blood.

 

[Brian_Millar]

If you are sharp, you will spot the keyword - korban. On the issue of korban, the Qu’ran is backing up the Jewish view that it is not illogical for a sacrifice to be divided among the people to be eaten.

I’m too lazy to dig through the Pentateuch but I believe you are confused over the different types of sacrifice. There is the burnt offering, the sin sacrifice etc.

You are correct, I’m not one to study all of the different sacrifices and rituals in those regards, it never had any kind of appeal since Christ made the ultimate sacrafice and his was the final one, which put all of the others to rest.

I agree, it’s not illogical to divide these up to the needy, we call them tithes and those are good in God’s eyes. I guess you can technically call tithes sacrificing, since you are giving up part of what you own, sacrificing it in the manner of doing without it, we just don’t bother with ceremony and showing what we are doing for charity, for that public display is it’s own reward, this is why it’s mentioned to give to charity in private, not publicly like the pharasies and hypocrytes.

 

[LaMar]

If you are sharp, you will spot the keyword - korban. On the issue of korban, the Qu’ran is backing up the Jewish view that it is not illogical for a sacrifice to be divided among the people to be eaten.

I’m too lazy to dig through the Pentateuch but I believe you are confused over the different types of sacrifice. There is the burnt offering, the sin sacrifice etc.

I’m impressed. You know a lot about this stuff.

 

[Lapell]

As for circumcision, a previous poster stated it incorrectly. There are some rabbinic sources that speculate that the reason for the circumcision command was so that Jewish MEN would not enjoy sex too much (actually, that they would not become debauched sex maniacs.)

Intéressant, ça! You say: “some rabbinic sources”… so, I take it they are an exception. I thought the main reason was because God commanded it!

 

[Brian_Millar]

He’s trying to point out the “why” he commanded it, God doesn’t just make up funny rules that have no benifet to us, there is a good reason behind it. Circumcision doesn’t detract from your sex drive, it’s a great deal more sanitary which means less disease for the individual. Refraining from eating pork and shellfish, back then, there were many diseases and deaths resulting in unsafe preperation of the meat, the commandment not to, saved a ton of lives for both of them alone.

 

[Lapell]

Actually I think at least some Jews do believe there will be a resurrection at the end of time. But otherwise, if we make all kinds of efforts in this life for the sake of God just to end up dying just like the rest of mankind, if there were nothing after this, wouldn’t that be absurd? You find it weird? Just think about it…

Thanks, HashemEchad, for mentioning that a Jew claiming to be a religious Jew but doesn’t believe there will be a resurrection at the end times is a Heretic. So, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut…
I guess I confused with some atheistic Jews…

 

[Lapell]

I also thought maybe some atheists could read my post, whether of Jewish descent or not!

 

[Lapell]

He’s trying to point out the “why” he commanded it

If you’re speaking of HashemEchad, it’s “she”, not “he”! But thanks for your comment! God bless you!

 

[Valke2]

Intéressant, ça! You say: “some rabbinic sources”… so, I take it they are an exception. I thought the main reason was because God commanded it!

yeah, I have not come across that speculation. I’ve read that it is a way for the father to particpate in the creation of the child. In that the child is not complete until circumcision. But these are just rabbinic midrashim designed to teach a lesson based on Torah.

 

[HashemEchad]

Can Jews eat blood?

Judaism strongly forbids Jews from eating or drinking ANY manner of blood or fat. Medieval Catholics evidently did not know this, when they falsely accused Jews of killing Christian children to use their blood for religious rituals.

Ironically, the ancient Romans were the first ones to use the blood libel—against CHRISTIANS. They would falsely accused the early Christians of killing Roman children to use their blood for Communion services.

 

[Lapell]

Judaism strongly forbids Jews from eating or drinking ANY manner of blood or fat. Medieval Catholics evidently did not know this, when they falsely accused Jews of killing Christian children to use their blood for religious rituals.

Ironically, the ancient Romans were the first ones to use the blood libel—against CHRISTIANS. They would falsely accused the early Christians of killing Roman children to use their blood for Communion services.

Tiens, tiens! Interesting! I didn’t know that!

 

[HashemEchad]

Tiens, tiens! Interesting! I didn’t know that!

You didn’t?! Which part?