Perhaps my time here is over

[FaithofAbraham]

You have a habit of thinking that just because you post something, you have proven something.

Of course I’ve proven something, that it’s silly to say it’s ok for Gentiles to believe in what you consider a False Messiah.

Nothing anyone has said here has accused Christians of being stupid, animls or children. That’s all on you.

You don’t have to come out and say it when you say it doesn’t matter what Gentiles believe, it only matters for Jews.

 

[jmcrae]

You have a habit of thinking that just because you post something, you have proven something.

Nothing anyone has said here has accused Christians of being stupid, animls or children. That’s all on you.

If Christianity is a false religion, then no human being should follow it.

When she says that “it’s okay” for Gentiles to follow what she considers to be a false religion, we have to ask ourselves why that would be okay.

Is it because there is no hope for Gentiles, anyway, so it doesn’t really matter what we believe?

 

[ralphinal]

I’m gone for a while and everyone has delusions of grandure…

Valke,
I loved New York. Met some cool New York Jewish folks. Had a great time up there.

As far as the temple goes, this is not the first time that the temple has been destroyed. It is the longest time between rebuilds, though. God knows that it is not there, so why would He still require Temple worship? I know that it has been suggested that the older Tent system could be used (FoA is a supporter of this, or was), but it seems like that would be a step back, not a step forward. I would like to ask the Jewish folks on here, should the temple be rebuilt, would they participate in animal sacrifices or hold to the current system? Further, are you in favor of the rebuild?

Carols Daughter,
May God bless you in all that you do in life. May you know the peace of God. But, do not judge us by blips on a screen. There is more that creates these blips than fingers. There are thousands of stories behind each poster and how and why we got to where we are today.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Is it because there is no hope for Gentiles, anyway, so it doesn’t really matter what we believe?

If it’s not because Gentiles are lesser beings like children or animals, what else could it be? Do they want us to make God angry by following a False Messiah so He will wipe us out and Jews will be rid of Gentiles forever, or what?

You know they argue so much against Jesus wherever I go online, but I rarely hear a peep about how their Messiah is going to save Gentiles from sin and death, and how Gentiles are supposed to relate to their Messiah, and all the things we say Jesus will do for everyone. So they seek to trash Jesus then leave us with no better alternative to embrace.

All I mostly hear is this stuff, Gentiles can believe what they want. Even if it’s a false God and Messiah.

If they really had the correct belief, I would expect more.

 

[Valke2]

If Christianity is a false religion, then no human being should follow it.

When she says that “it’s okay” for Gentiles to follow what she considers to be a false religion, we have to ask ourselves why that would be okay.

Is it because there is no hope for Gentiles, anyway, so it doesn’t really matter what we believe?

No. It is because Gentiles have not been commanded by God to follow Torah. So by following another religion, they are not going against God. However, if it makes you feel better, I’m happy to encourage you to explore Judaism with the possibility of converting.

 

[jmcrae]

No. It is because Gentiles have not been commanded by God to follow Torah. So by following another religion, they are not going against God.

Even if it teaches false things about God?

However, if it makes you feel better, I’m happy to encourage you to explore Judaism with the possibility of converting.

Well, this reassures me that you think your beliefs are valuable enough to share.

 

[Righteousone]

Sorry. It’s not a yes or no question.

I study Kabbalistic teachings when they are appropriate to shed light on some aspect of the Tanakh that I am studying. (For example recently I was reading about how different rabbis/sage’s interpreted the phrase “Torah From Heaven” and as part of the discussion, a little Kabbalistic teaching was quoted).
There’s no membership aspect of Kabbalah that I’m aware of.

I have also, very recently, strated studying the Tanya with a Rabbi, which I understand as being kabbalistic in nature.

Kabbalistic?

 

[Unitas]

I only found this forum a few days ago, while doing an online Google for customs and legends surrounding Holy Week (I was looking up something my late mother had told me years ago).

That online search led me to this forum, where there was a thread about the subject I was researching.

I have to say that, until I came here, I had never once in my 48 yrs had a Roman Catholic proselytize me. That was a major reason why I have always felt far closer to Catholics than to Protestant fundamentalists (many of whom have disgusted me with their blatant attempts to proselytize me, including a “born again” nurse who had the nerve to try to missionize me in the hospital room where my mother lay terminally ill.)

I really thought Catholics were different, nicer, more respectful of the beliefs of others (at least in more modern times, anyway). And with many of you, that is the case.

What Christians don’t realize is, when you shove your beliefs onto others even after they clearly inform you they are not interested (and in fact, can adequately show why they don’t believe in your faith), you really turn people off.

I have worked with devout Catholics in both the pro-life and homeschool communities, and we have always gotten along so well. We have found much common ground on moral issues. And none have ever tried to proselytize me.

I find I am feeling differently about Catholics since being here, and I don’t like it. I want to believe that (most) Catholics are truly decent people who learned their lessons from the days of the Inquisition, and who believe in the American princple of respect for the religions of others.

But I think for me to return to the feelings I had previously, I need to leave this forum. I wish that were not true, but it seems it is.

I have been a countermissionary for almost 30 years. This means I have done volunteer work to get impressionable young Jews out of cults, and yes, out of mainstream Christian and other non-Jewish groups as well. We have had a very high success rate.

But I am also active in the ecumenical mvmt, which means I work to try to find common ground between Jews and Christians. Because of this, I work to help Jews understand Christianity, and to help Christians understand Judaism. There is too much hate and bigotry on BOTH sides, and I work to help end this.

But it won’t end until the “my religion is better than yours” business stops. I doubt that will happen any time soon here, so I have to say Shalom to you all.

Shalom aleichem/pax vobiscum,

Carol’s Daughter

Lol, the nice ones are the people who care about the words of our Lord as well as your eternal soul enough to want to bring you into that! The ones that are not nice are the ones who don’t care, or care more about feelings than the salvation of souls.

We gain nothing when someone converts. But they gain everyhting. It is those who believe that it is their faith that saves, and care enough for their fellow man, who try to bring souls into that faith.

We wouldn’t evangelize if we didn’t care. If evangelization is not the aim of ecumenism then it is a waste of time. Temporal feel-goodness means nothing if the saving words of our Lord is sidelined. What good is earthly peace at the cost of eternal salvation?

Ignorance is not bliss. It is our duty to bring the way, truth, and the life to all mankind, jew or not, for the sake of their soul. I would rather risk embarassment or political incorrectness and be turned away, then to have to live with the fact that I could have told someone about our Lord, but instead chose the world over Him and decided not to because it might hurt some feelings.

The truth is more important than “i’m ok, you’re ok,” it is actually antithetical to that. The truth is paramount because that is what sets us free.

 

[CarolsDaughter]

I’ve changed my mind about leaving this forum, folks. But its not because of anything anyone has said to me here.

It seems that God did in fact send me here, but not for the reason some of you might think.

Some very beautiful things have been happening behind the scenes as a result of my presence here, and I never cease to be amazed at the power of God, and how He works! But as my late mother used to always say to me, “God works in mysterious ways”.

He knew there was a need here (actually, two needs), that could be fulfilled. Please don’t ask specifics, I won’t violate anyone’s privacy and trust.

I won’t be on here as much as I have been the last few days, due to offline responsibilities. But I will definitely at least check my PM.

God bless!

CarolsDaughter

 

[Lapell]

I am also active in the ecumenical mvmt, which means I work to try to find common ground between Jews and Christians. Because of this, I work to help Jews understand Christianity, and to help Christians understand Judaism. There is too much hate and bigotry on BOTH sides, and I work to help end this.

But it won’t end until the “my religion is better than yours” business stops. I doubt that will happen any time soon here, so I have to say Shalom to you all.

Shalom aleichem/pax vobiscum,
Carol’s Daughter

 

[Lapell]

I am sorry for this, Carol’s Daughter. I guess EVERY religion or faith has its black sheep and its black goats.
Whatever you try, even the best way, the other person still can choose to not follow the Ways of the Lord God… They might turn to Him later, or not turn to Him at all, there’s nothing you or I can do then, it’s their call! We are called to respect that while not forgetting them in our prayers… Voilà!

 

[nick_aksureh]

Of course I’ve proven something, that it’s silly to say it’s ok for Gentiles to believe in what you consider a False Messiah.

You don’t have to come out and say it when you say it doesn’t matter what Gentiles believe, it only matters for Jews.

So you’ve proven that something is silly?

And it only matters that Jews come out and say that it doesn’t matter?

hmmm

 

[jmcrae]

So you’ve proven that something is silly?

And it only matters that Jews come out and say that it doesn’t matter?

hmmm

What is your point?

If I say that it doesn’t matter that my cat worships me as a god, people understand that the reason it doesn’t matter is that my cat does not have eternal life, and will not experience any consequences from God for his false belief.

What is the reason that it “doesn’t matter” what Gentiles believe?

 

[nick_aksureh]

What is your point?

If I say that it doesn’t matter that my cat worships me as a god, people understand that the reason it doesn’t matter is that my cat does not have eternal life, and will not experience any consequences from God for his false belief.

What is the reason that it “doesn’t matter” what Gentiles believe?

My point was to point out that FoA is not using logic, and sarcastically questioning his proof of something silly.

FoA was trying to teach that we don’t matter.

 

[justinthemartyr]

I suppose that when you are the only church to have been started by God himself, and it is almost 2000 years old and has the largest membership, the percentages say you will have the greatest number of saints, and sinners alike.

 

[planter654]

You are confusing the two. The Spanish inquisition was started by the Spanish monarchy, as I have stated before. It was started in 1478. The Roman inquisition, which you are calling a Papal inquisition was before that, and started in the 12th century. You’re comparing apples to oranges here. Try doing a simple google search for “Spanish Inquisition”, and another search for “inquisition”. You will find they are different events.

You started a thread to let people that PMed you know that you were leaving? A simple response to their PM would have sufficed, I don’t think a new thread was necessary. But then that goes to proseltyzing doesn’t it?

Again, I refer you to my earlier post. (#71 I believe) Would you care to answer the rest of the questions posed there, or shall we call it done?

Different events but same results. Thousands were killed, tortured etc, don’t you think. God Bless

 

[jmcrae]

My point was to point out that FoA is not using logic, and sarcastically questioning his proof of something silly.

FoA was trying to teach that we don’t matter.

No; he was showing that Carol is teaching that we don’t matter. Read the whole thread.

 

[Lapell]

I suspect you may be the only person here who understands (or could understand) what I am saying, how most Jews feel.

And I’m glad you brought up the issue of Catholics being proselytized by fundamentalist Protestants (notably, those of the Jack Chick ilk).

JUST AS CATHOLICS GET ANNOYED AT THE CHICK PEOPLE PROSELYTIZING CATHOLICS AND SPREADING FALSEHOODS ABOUT CATHOLICISM, WE JEWS GET SIMILARLY ANNOYED AT THOSE WHO TRY TO CONVERT US.

I’m glad you brought that up, and I wish I’d thought to mention it. Because maybe if you focus on that, you will understand how WE ALSO feel.

If there are Hebrew Catholics here (it’s like Messianic Jews, but the latter are Protestant, maybe they could help the rest of us look at your posts with other eyes, certainly with more understanding. I myself wish it. Wounds need healing, not getting worse!

 

[Lapell]

I’ll answer your question, since you’ve asked me to, and then I will be gone.

Yes, Jews have been forced to the baptismal font. Check your history books on that. It may have been by church prelates or by Catholic monarchs, regardless, IT HAS BEEN DONE BY CATHOLICS. My mother’s ancestors did not leave Spain because they felt the weather would be better elsewhere! They were FORCED to go for fear of their lives if they did not become Catholics. They wound up becoming Catholics later (but as anusim, or “marranos”), because they were tired of fleeing from yet another place that the Inquisition had by then spread to.

To try to get Jews to return to their birthright religion, is not proselytizing. Proselytizing is when you try to convert people already in their birthright religion, to another religion.

If you feel it is OK to try to convert Jews to Christianity, then why should I speak out against people like Jack Chick trying to convert Catholics to Protestantism? Maybe he is JUST as justified as Catholicism would be in trying to convert people to their faith?

Frankly, I wish I’d never found this board during my Google search for legends about holy week. The Catholics I knew up until now are decent people who respect the religious faith of others, and only try to convert “unchurched” people (people who do not have a religious faith.) What I feel from some of you (NOT ALL, some of you have proven yourselves to be truly decent people) is that you are Catholic versions of the Protestant fundamentalists I have come to know and be annoyed by.

I get a “Deus vult” mentality here from some of you that is very unsettling. FWIW, those of you who act like that have no room to criticize the Jack Chicks of the world, because in some ways you are behaving the very same way.

I’ll remember my experience here, that’s for sure.

Because Catholics do wrong things, the Catholic leaders in Rome must agree with them, of course! From outside the Catholic Church, of course, I can see that it may seem so, even when it isn’t, I agree. Then if we were to try to explain it wasn’t so, we do have to expect protests and still answer with charity. I wish I could do a better job on that chapter…

 

[Lapell]

Carols Daughter,
May God bless you in all that you do in life. May you know the peace of God. But, do not judge us by blips on a screen. There is more that creates these blips than fingers. There are thousands of stories behind each poster and how and why we got to where we are today.

I second this. Moreover, I propose that we terminate this thread and keep the discussion going on other thread… Agreed?